Statehood for Puerto Rico and DC?

[lpetrich]

Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "Proud to join @NydiaVelazquez in introducing the Puerto Rico Self-Determination Act today." / Twitter

According to her Wikipedia article, Nydia Velazquez had earlier supported Puerto Rican independence. She now agrees with AOC in preferring to let Puerto Ricans themselves resolve their fate.

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "Say it with me: the issue of DC & Puerto Rico statehood are not the same.
PR is a colony of the United States.
Justice isn’t the colonizing country deciding fate for the colonized. It is the people’s decision.
The word is self-determination, not statehood. ¡Gracias! " / Twitter
then
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: ".@NydiaVelazquez, the first mujer Boricua in the House, & I co-wrote this piece about PR political status if you’d like to read more.
Very grateful for her leadership https://t.co/PHFj49LSW9" / Twitter

mujer Boricua = (Spanish) Boricua woman

 

[ZiprHead]

My two cents.

I don't see any reason why any citizen of the US should have lesser rights than any other simply because of where they live. The territory system is BS.

 

[Worldtraveller]

My two cents.

I don't see any reason why any citizen of the US should have lesser rights than any other simply because of where they live. The territory system is BS.

I was surprised to find the US 'only' has 5 US territories. I frankly expected about triple that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territories_of_the_United_States

Of those, only PR has a population larger than the smallest US state (DC also does).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_and_territories_of_the_United_States_by_population

I don't know if they should have the equivalent of statehood, they can vote in elections, but not for the president (because there's no Electoral college representation). Ironically, many of these people who can't vote for the pres are US retired military.

 

[lpetrich]

Using the "wiki" tag:  List of states and territories of the United States by population,  Territories of the United States

Puerto Rico's population is 3.2M, the mean population of the 50 states is 6.6M, and their median population is 4.6M. So Puerto Rico would be a respectable-sized state.

The District of Columbia's population is 706K, greater than the populations of two states: VT at 624K and WY at 579K.

The remaining territories are Guam at 168K, the US Virgin Islands at 106K, the Northern Mariana Islands at 51K, and American Samoa at 49K.

Lumping the Pacific-island territories together gives 269K. The US has a Pacific-island state, Hawaii, at 1,416K. The US Virgin Islands, however, are Atlantic islands.

 

[lpetrich]

AOC notes that Puerto Rican statehood won't mean automatic Democratic votes.

Puerto Rico Governor Endorses Trump, Says He Represents Puerto Ricans: 'Nobody Is Perfect'
then
Newsweek on Twitter: "Puerto Rico governor endorses Trump, says he represents Puerto Ricans: "Nobody is perfect" https://t.co/GCP7PmnTlh" / Twitter

That was about how his idea of assistance was throwing paper-towel rolls.

Vázquez, an outgoing governor who lost her GOP primary in August, was scheduled to join Trump's campaign efforts in Orlando this year before the pandemic impeded her plans. The Republican and Trump share a good relationship. In February, she suggested that their rapport was the reason why the president provided federal funding to the unincorporated U.S. territory.

She's Wanda Vázquez Garced. Looking at that tweet's comments, someone speculated on what Trump's Puerto Rico aid might include for her.

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "For all the partisans who think PR statehood automatically = 2 Dem seats: think again.

Puerto Rican politics is incredibly complicated bc it isn’t on a Dem-GOP spectrum like the US.

It’s colonized. The sole DC Rep caucuses w/ GOP. We need decolonization, not status imposition" / Twitter

That is, not forced statehood.

 

[skepticalbip]

Wouldn't adding DC to some existing state fix the disenfranchisement issue without raising concern about a "Democratic power grab"?

I would think so. The land D.C. occupies was granted by Maryland to the U.S. to establish a capitol that was not in any state. If the people of D.C. want representation in Congress then returning it to Maryland, making D.C. a Maryland city like Baltimore, would seem reasonable. It would give D.C. residents congressional representation and honor the agreement with Maryland. Of course, they may reconsider as it would mean they would have to start paying Maryland taxes.

 

[J842P]

My two cents.

I don't see any reason why any citizen of the US should have lesser rights than any other simply because of where they live. The territory system is BS.

I was surprised to find the US 'only' has 5 US territories. I frankly expected about triple that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territories_of_the_United_States

Of those, only PR has a population larger than the smallest US state (DC also does).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_and_territories_of_the_United_States_by_population

I don't know if they should have the equivalent of statehood, they can vote in elections, but not for the president (because there's no Electoral college representation). Ironically, many of these people who can't vote for the pres are US retired military.

Well, they can just not in Puerto Rico.

 

[lpetrich]

Eleanor Holmes Norton, DC's House delegate, has introduced a DC-statehood bill: H.R.51 - 117th Congress (2021-2022): Washington, D.C. Admission Act | Congress.gov | Library of Congress

It was introduced on Jan 4 with 202 cosponsors. It is now at 208, with 1 cosponsor joining on Jan 6, 2 on Jan 11, 1 on Jan 19, and 2 on Jan 21. All the cosponsors are Democrats, and since there were originally 222 D's in the House, that means 14 remaining.

Will the Democrats make a big push for it? The Republicans will likely filibuster it in the Senate, and the Democrats will have to weaken it or end it for legislation to get it to pass.

 

[lpetrich]

AOC calls for Puerto Rico’s self-determination, countering statehood push - Axios

Reps. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Nydia Velázquez are pushing ahead with a bill in Congress that would let Puerto Rico decide its future — a proposal threatening Gov. Pedro Pierluisi's determination to pursue statehood for the island.

Why it matters: There's an urgency among supporters of statehood to get it done while Democrats control both chambers of Congress, and President Biden has been publicly supportive. But there's a growing divide within the party about whether statehood is actually the best solution for the U.S. territory.

During a joint phone interview with Axios on Thursday, Ocasio-Cortez said she still hasn't heard from Pierluisi, and Velázquez said she met with him virtually a few weeks ago.

...
"The principled position — especially for the head of that colonizing power — is to say that people should have a process of self-determination and to not put your thumb on the scale of one direction or another," Ocasio-Cortez said.

...
"This plebiscite that was conducted by the New Progressive Party was a political trick to entice people to come out to the polls," Velázquez said. She said that during her virtual meeting with Pierluisi, he told her he'd be in D.C. more often, lobbying for statehood.

"It's highly suspect when anyone is trying to prescribe an outcome for millions of people," Ocasio-Cortez said.
"We have to think about how ridiculous this is that the entire future and status of a colony of the United States should just be determined by a simple ballot referendum."

Looking at congress.gov I couldn't find anything by either NV or AOC this year.

 

[lpetrich]

But a bill was introduced last year which was what these two Congresswomen had in mind: H.R.8113 - 116th Congress (2019-2020): Puerto Rico Self-Determination Act of 2020 | Congress.gov | Library of Congress - "To recognize the right of the People of Puerto Rico to call a status convention through which the people would exercise their natural right to self-determination, and to establish a mechanism for congressional consideration of such decision, and for other purposes."

It was introduced by NV, and it got 21 cosponsors, with the one original one being AOC.

But a statehood bill has been introduced: H.R.1522 - 117th Congress (2021-2022): To provide for the admission of the State of Puerto Rico into the Union. | Congress.gov | Library of Congress

It has no summary or text, but it has 57 cosponsors. There is only one cosponsor that is shared with the 2020 bill, Anthony G. Brown D-MD-4.

Rep. Darren Soto, who introduced it, has this press release: Soto, González Colón Introduce Bipartisan Puerto Rico Statehood Bill | Congressman Darren Soto

Under the slogan “Fighting for Equality and Democracy for our Fellow Americans,” a group of 51 members in the U.S. House of Representatives, led by Congressman Darren Soto (D-FL) and Puerto Rico's sole representative in Congress, Jenniffer González Colón (R-PR), announced the introduction of legislation to lay the groundwork for Puerto Rico's admission as a state of the Union. The introduction of the Puerto Rico Statehood Admission Act comes on the 104th anniversary of Puerto Ricans being granted American citizenship. The bill is a direct response to the third consecutive mandate for statehood, as democratically expressed by voters on the Island. Senator Martin Heinrich (D-NM) is leading similar efforts in the U.S. Senate and will shortly introduce a companion bill.

Here's another article: What's behind calls for Puerto Rico statehood? Here are 4 things to know.

Back in 2020, NV and AOC made this case for their bill: Puerto Rico, not Congress, must determine its future. Our bill enables it do so.

 

[Gospel]

Lets be honest here. Puerto Rico won't be a state until 70% of its population is white.

Ok the % is hyperbole. Translation: There is not enough white people there.

 

[TomC]

Does lumping the U.S. Capitol in with a minor relic of imperialism not seem ridiculous? The two places have next to nothing in common.
Tom

 

[Worldtraveller]

Does lumping the U.S. Capitol in with a minor relic of imperialism not seem ridiculous? The two places have next to nothing in common.
Tom

They are only 'lumped' in the sense that they are (and have been for a while) considered good candidates for statehood. That's really all there is to it. I think they may be lumped because congress figures if they are writing the legislation for one, then it's easy enough to add a second?

 

[J842P]

Does lumping the U.S. Capitol in with a minor relic of imperialism not seem ridiculous? The two places have next to nothing in common.
Tom

They are only 'lumped' in the sense that they are (and have been for a while) considered good candidates for statehood. That's really all there is to it. I think they may be lumped because congress figures if they are writing the legislation for one, then it's easy enough to add a second?

True, but D.C. is a special case, since it is a territory that was carved out of two, existing states with the explicit goal of *not* being a state.

 

[Angra Mainyu]

Lets be honest here. Puerto Rico won't be a state until 70% of its population is white.

Ok the % is hyperbole. Translation: There is not enough white people there.

Why do you think so?
AOC cites a bad reason for not supporting statehood, but her bad reason is not the percentage of White people.
If the Democrats are in favor, they can get rid of the filibuster and make it happen. And Republicans are mostly opposed, but I see no reason to think it's because of the percentage of White people. It seems more likely it's because of the percentage of left-wingers.

 

[Politesse]

Lets be honest here. Puerto Rico won't be a state until 70% of its population is white.

Ok the % is hyperbole. Translation: There is not enough white people there.

Why do you think so?
AOC cites a bad reason for not supporting statehood, but her bad reason is not the percentage of White people.

History. Racism has always been a significant factor in statehood decisions, however officially or unofficially. Why should we believe that this would no longer be a factor? I don't think it need necesarily be a fatal factor, though. It isn't 1880 anymore, and I think there is fundamentally more power invested in the public than there used to be, even if assholes in Washington tut and shake their heads at the notion of minority enfranchisement.

On the other hand, support for Statehood in Puerto Rico is a very weak. It's there, just weak. The thinnest of majorities. So, can they actually apply the necessary pressure?

 

[Angra Mainyu]

Lets be honest here. Puerto Rico won't be a state until 70% of its population is white.

Ok the % is hyperbole. Translation: There is not enough white people there.

Why do you think so?
AOC cites a bad reason for not supporting statehood, but her bad reason is not the percentage of White people.

History. Racism has always been a significant factor in statehood decisions, however officially or unofficially. Why should we believe that this would no longer be a factor?

I don't see any good evidence that all decisions are based on whether or not there are enough White people (that seems false). And again, I do not see the evidence of that motivation now.

 

[TomC]

Does lumping the U.S. Capitol in with a minor relic of imperialism not seem ridiculous? The two places have next to nothing in common.
Tom

They are only 'lumped' in the sense that they are (and have been for a while) considered good candidates for statehood. That's really all there is to it. I think they may be lumped because congress figures if they are writing the legislation for one, then it's easy enough to add a second?

True, but D.C. is a special case, since it is a territory that was carved out of two, existing states with the explicit goal of *not* being a state.

That's kinda my point.
D.C. is completely different from any of our "possessions".

If the folks there want statehood status, the obvious solution is to end their "city without a state" status. That's different from adding a foreign culture to statehood. Completely different issues are involved.

For one thing, Maryland residents ought to have a big say in adding D.C. to their state. It's substantially bigger than the current biggest city and state capital, Baltimore. And then there's the original issue, keeping the U.S. capital distinct from any particular state. Would moving D.C. to Maryland make Maryland the capital state of the USA? How would the rest of America react?

I dunno. But there's a raft of problems with D.C. statehood that are completely different from all the rest.
Tom

 

[Gospel]

Does lumping the U.S. Capitol in with a minor relic of imperialism not seem ridiculous? The two places have next to nothing in common.
Tom

They are only 'lumped' in the sense that they are (and have been for a while) considered good candidates for statehood. That's really all there is to it. I think they may be lumped because congress figures if they are writing the legislation for one, then it's easy enough to add a second?

True, but D.C. is a special case, since it is a territory that was carved out of two, existing states with the explicit goal of *not* being a state.

Most Americans are willing to make a state out of a place specifically designed to not be one. Strange that there are issues with making a US territory currently full of US Citizens that wants to become one a state. But as I said, there are not enough white people in Puerto Rico. The strange colonized thingy the US has with them is a Spanish war X enemy forced to be friends cause proximity type weird white people shit. Suck it up, either give them back to Spain or take full ownership. All this taxing them for the made in America label but no real legislative rights is just making America look even more wierd.

 

[Gospel]

Lets be honest here. Puerto Rico won't be a state until 70% of its population is white.

Ok the % is hyperbole. Translation: There is not enough white people there.

Why do you think so?
AOC cites a bad reason for not supporting statehood, but her bad reason is not the percentage of White people.
If the Democrats are in favor, they can get rid of the filibuster and make it happen. And Republicans are mostly opposed, but I see no reason to think it's because of the percentage of White people. It seems more likely it's because of the percentage of left-wingers.

I don't care what AOC thinks's she's not my representative. I'm in Florida. Anyhow, I can't think of any reason negative enough for either American's living in Puerto Rico or American's living in the other 50 states that would be significant enough to warrant a yay or nay debate. The only issue I can think of off the top of my dome is there not being enough white people in Puerto Rico. Throughout American history whenever there is some real major issue, white people's wants and desires seem to be at the center. So what is it that white people would want before Puerto Rico becomes a state? The only thing that makes sense to me is more white people since that's the only quality it's missing that other states have (other than Hawaii which still benefited white people greatly).