Statehood for Puerto Rico and DC?

[zorq]

That's even dumber. If they're going to carve it up that way, just give the rest back to Maryland.

No, it's really not dumber. The reasons for leaving the Federal capitol independent of state jurisdiction and authority are just as valid and important today as they were when DC was first carved out. The only issue is that when they first carved out DC they didn't anticipate the population growth and density in DC to overshadow fully established states. They didn't know they would be effectively disenfranchising such a huge chunk of American citizens.

And it bears repeating that most MD residents don't want the DC population and its issues. And Most DC residents don't want to be part of Maryland. Your solution dilutes the representation of both populations. Nobody wants it.

 

[ronburgundy]

That's even dumber. If they're going to carve it up that way, just give the rest back to Maryland.

If you do that, you take a black majority district ready to become a state- the only one in the country - and you make them a minority in Md. Why would they want that? We already know what that does to their voting rights.

They are better served as a state, not as a new part of Maryland. They have more population than Vermont and Wyoming. Why not a state, then?

Actual reason, meet stated reason.

Yes, their actual reasons and their stated reasons meet and are the same. They (as numerous in people as multiple states) want their own interests represented, which are distinct from MD or any other nearby state, and they have a unique culture that has developed for more than a century longer than many US states.

What your reply actually reveals is your only actual reason for objecting, which is the same as that of all right wingers (which you are by any reasonable definition), which is you do not want liberals, let alone predominantly black liberal to have fair representation in the US government.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Actual reason, meet stated reason.

Yes, their actual reasons and their stated reasons meet and are the same.

Blahahahahahahaha!

right wingers (which you are by any reasonable definition)

Blahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Define "right winger". Or don't. You've already posted enough nonsense.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

For those who disagree when I say "actual reason, meet stated reason", you would not object to giving DC back to Maryland. If you do object to giving DC back to Maryland, you are tipping your hand as to your actual reason.

Sorry, you are as transparent as glass.

 

[zorq]

For those who disagree when I say "actual reason, meet stated reason", you would not object to giving DC back to Maryland. If you do object to giving DC back to Maryland, you are tipping your hand as to your actual reason.

Sorry, you are as transparent as glass.

No, you have been given actual, legitimate reasons for preferring statehood over annexation. What are good reasons for preferring annexation? You don't have to add a star to the flag and two chairs to the senate chamber?

Nope, by preferring annexation over statehood and not giving ANY good reason as cover for your preference, you have tipped your hand that you don't want Democrats to have additional influence in government. IOW, you are projecting.

 

[blastula]

If we are going to add another state, it would be good to take one away to keep a pretty round number. I vote for merging the Dakotas.

 

[Politesse]

If we are going to add another state, it would be good to take one away to keep a pretty round number. I vote for merging the Dakotas.

Might wanna run that by the Dakotas. Owing to their low population, they have some of the most completely disproportionately powerful votes in the Union.

 

[Elixir]

Blahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Define "right winger"

One definition would be:
"people whose arguments are entirely vacuous, consisting mainly of character sequences such as 'Blahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!'"

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

According to you, anyone who laughs at an absurdly brain-dead argument is a "right winger".

That explains why you take absurdly brain-dead arguments seriously.

 

[Jokodo]

According to you, anyone who laughs at an absurdly brain-dead argument is a "right winger".

That explains why you take absurdly brain-dead arguments seriously.

Talking about absurdly brain-dead arguments.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but best as I can tell, you're argument boils down to this:

"What if giving the residents of DC and Puerto Rico is the right thing to do? it also helps the Democrats. Keeping the status quo may well be wrong on independent grounds, but since it helps Republicans, this is a draw."

 

[southernhybrid]

Wouldn't adding DC to some existing state fix the disenfranchisement issue without raising concern about a "Democratic power grab"?

I was actually thinking the exact same thing.

 

[lpetrich]

H.R.4901 - 116th Congress (2019-2020): Puerto Rico Statehood Admission Act | Congress.gov | Library of Congress - introduced late last year, and the most recent cosponsors signed on early this year.

It was introduced by Rep. Jose Serrano (NY-15), who was born in Puerto Rico and who now lives in New York City. Absent from the cosponsors are two fellow NYC Puerto Ricans, AOC (NY-14) and Nydia Velazquez (NY-07). In college, NV supported Puerto Rican independence, but she now thinks that the status of the island is for its inhabitants to decide. That is also the position of AOC, someone who has called the island a "colony" of the US.

 

[lpetrich]

Fenit Nirappil on Twitter: "At anti-D.C. statehood press conference, Senator Steve Daines (R-Mt.) urges lawmakers to "go out to where the real people are at across the country and ask them where they think."" / Twitter

At anti-D.C. statehood press conference, Senator Steve Daines (R-Mt.) urges lawmakers to "go out to where the real people are at across the country and ask them where they think."

When you say Washingtonians aren't real people, remember that 46 percent of this city is black. When you bash D.C. as a government city, you also cannot ignore that the federal government has been a pathway into middle class for African Americans shut out of other industries. Also private sector jobs outnumber government jobs 2-1

.@JulieZauzmer pushes Daines on his comments about "real people" outside of D.C., pointing out its a majority minority city he is deriding.

"I’m just suggesting perhaps a different view outside the city," he responded

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "One of the ways the GOP articulates their racism today is their idea that some citizens are “real” people and others aren’t.
This is the argument they make against DC statehood: that this largely Black community doesn’t qualify as “real people.”
So, who is a “real” person? " / Twitter

 

[fromderinside]

Actually it comes down to a choice: Give citizens full rights of citizenship or set them free. Everything else is not constitutional.

 

[Jayjay]

Actually it comes down to a choice: Give citizens full rights of citizenship or set them free. Everything else is not constitutional.

"Set them free"? Like, bus them to Mexican border and say "go! you are free now!" ??

 

[lpetrich]

McSally: Democrats would make DC and Puerto Rico states if they win Senate | TheHill

"If they win the White House, the Senate, the House, they're already saying they're going to ram through the most radical agenda in American history," McSally said.

"There's so much at stake here. They're going to make D.C. and Puerto Rico a state and get four new Democrat Senators. We'd never get the Senate back again. And look, this is just the implications of this seat, the implications of this vote," the senator added.

What a sore loser.

 

[zorq]

McSally: Democrats would make DC and Puerto Rico states if they win Senate | TheHill

"If they win the White House, the Senate, the House, they're already saying they're going to ram through the most radical agenda in American history," McSally said.

"There's so much at stake here. They're going to make D.C. and Puerto Rico a state and get four new Democrat Senators. We'd never get the Senate back again. And look, this is just the implications of this seat, the implications of this vote," the senator added.

What a sore loser.

It is comments like this that make me wonder if Republicans are even cognizant of the concepts of compromise and inclusiveness. If the political environment changes, political parties can adapt to that by making changes. When your party needs more members you act to attract more members.

Republicans have been pulling to the right for so long, has it ever occured to them to pull to the left a little bit? Or have they painted themselves into a political corner? Will altering their stances (on anti-gay rights or eliminating taxes on the rich or xenophobic fear of immigrants) actually cost them more of their radicalized voters than they could pick up by moving to the middle?

Regardless, until I see Republicans concerned the unethical power grab that gerymandering in Red states represents, I am disinclined to take their partisan objections to new theoretical Democratic leaning states seriously.

 

[Elixir]

Actually it comes down to a choice: Give citizens full rights of citizenship or set them free. Everything else is not constitutional.

"Set them free"? Like, bus them to Mexican border and say "go! you are free now!" ??

No, "set them free" like "let them become their own sovereign Nation".
Then they can take assistance from Russia if they so choose. You know, like Cuba or Donald Trump.

 

[J842P]

Actually it comes down to a choice: Give citizens full rights of citizenship or set them free. Everything else is not constitutional.

How is it not constitutional?

 

[lpetrich]

Rep. Nydia Velazquez on Twitter: "The people of #PuertoRico have the right to determine their own destiny.
Today I've introduced legislation with @RepAOC that would empower the Island to design their own future through a constitutional convention mechanism.
Read more: (link)" / Twitter
noting
Puerto Rico, not Congress, must determine its future. Our bill enables it do so. - "Understandably, many of our Democratic friends want to make the territory a state to empower it. But many Puerto Ricans view that push as the culmination of colonization." - By Rep. Nydia Velázquez and Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

It was recently reported that in 2017, while Puerto Rico was suffering through the aftermath of Hurricane Maria, a natural disaster that would ultimately claim nearly 3,000 lives, President Donald Trump had inquired about “selling” the Island. While this heartless suggestion was discarded by his advisers, the incident speaks to how disposable Washington has long viewed Puerto Rico to be.

After discussing Puerto Rico's colonial status, the authors got into their proposed solution:

That’s why the two of us, both members of Congress of Puerto Rican descent, have introduced the Puerto Rico Self-Determination Act. The legislation that would prompt Puerto Rico’s Legislature to create a Status Convention whose delegates would be elected by Puerto Rican voters. This body would develop a long-term solution for Puerto Rico’s status, be that statehood, independence, free association or any option other than the current territorial arrangement.

What the convention negotiates and puts forth would then be voted on in a referendum by the people of Puerto Rico before presentation to the U.S. Congress. The key is that this framework would be developed by Puerto Ricans and for Puerto Ricans, not dictated to them like so many previous policies.

Here is that bill: untitled - PuertoRicoBill082520.pdf

After discussing US colonialism some more, the authors mentioned Puerto Rican statehood as a solution. Though inspired by proposed DC statehood, PR has had a very different history.

Equally important, there isn’t overwhelming support for statehood in Puerto Rico, as there is in D.C. With Washington, most opposition to statehood emanates from Republican lawmakers in Congress, none of whom reside in the district.

Conversely, in Puerto Rico there remain visceral disagreements about the status issue. Despite five plebiscites, “statehood” has never received an unequivocal mandate from Puerto Rican voters.

AOC in an Instagram video even stated that some of those referenda were little better than polls.

For true, legitimate change, Puerto Rico’s status must be resolved from the ground up. Plans for altering the Island’s relationship with the U.S. should not just garner the consent of the Puerto Rican people; they should originate with them. In fact, many in Puerto Rico would view Congress pushing statehood not as an end to colonization, but the culmination of it.