Stephon Clark killed by Sacramento police - he was in his own family's backyard

[RavenSky]

Looking at the video again.

"ShowMeYourHandsGunGunGun!*Bang**Bang*" Less than 2 seconds from the start of that 'sentence' to shooting. Can anyone really argue that there was sufficient time in that for the guy to comply to the command, and the cop to in any real way assess what he had in his hand?

Also noticed it said the helicopter spotted someone, but didn't say, and certainly didn't show, them seeing him doing anything illegal.

The two most important points here...

both being ignored by those who will ignore every fact and substitute every negative assumption to declare that the death penalty - without a trial - is just fine by them (as long as the person killed by police is black)

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

And in both cases, the officers rushed into a situation, putting everyone into potential danger.

That really is the big failing here. Why would the police not get out a megaphone and talk to him or something instead of rushing in on him guns blazing? This isn't a case of him sneaking up on the officers. It isn't a case of him being an imminent threat to anybody before they charged in. They had all the space and time they needed to approach things safely.

Your approach works only if they have containment. In this sort of case a stand back approach could easily turn into a hostage situation.

Didn’t know it was possible, but my eyeballs just barfed.

 

[RavenSky]

Impoverished? I would hardly describe him as such what with $200-$400 headphones.

You don't think people who are poor in America can't have nice things and still be poor? For all you know those headphones could have been a gift from someone more well off. For all you know he could have won them from a contest of some sort.

You know far less than you might like to imagine Derec. Far far less.

Sounds like he gets his views on poverty from Bill O'Reilly

Fox News hosts are citing a Heritage Foundation report about the ownership of appliances among the poor in America to ask, in the words of Bill O'Reilly, "So how can you be so poor and have all this stuff?"

https://www.mediamatters.org/resear...-ownership-of-appliances-to-downplay-h/148574

/derail

 

[RavenSky]

You can (a) raise your hand and they think the phone is a gun. *bang* (b) drop the phone and it makes a noise on the sidewalk. "He's shooting at us! Return fire quick!" (c) Try explaining the situation while they are yelling at you with increasingly physical threats. "Shut up and show your goddam hands. If you don't do exactly as I say, we will shoot you in the head! You have 3 seconds."

If you're worried about that, extend your arms out, not towards the police and lower the contents to the ground.

Gun safety 101: If someone is pointing a gun at you, make no sudden movements unless you have determined that your best chance is to go for a disarm.

For every stupid advice you claim that random black people *should* follow, I can give you an example of a black man following it and still being shot by police.

 On July 18, 2016, Charles Kinsey, a mental health therapist, was shot by police in North Miami, Florida. Kinsey, an African-American man, had been retrieving his autistic 23-year-old patient, who had wandered from his group home. Police encountered the pair while searching for an armed suicidal man. Kinsey was lying on the ground with his hands in the air and trying to negotiate between officers and his patient when he was shot. Both Kinsey and his patient were unarmed. Following the shooting, Kinsey stated he was handcuffed and left bleeding on the ground for 20 minutes with police giving him no medical aid. Authorities stated that they were investigating the incident, which received significant media attention following the appearance of cellphone video footage. The officer who shot Kinsey was arrested in 2017 and charged with attempted manslaughter and negligence. However, he remains employed and has not been fired.

The problem is NOT how black men are reacting. The problem is how the police are acting.

 

[RavenSky]

If you're poor and economically sensible and somehow come to own a luxury good like this there's e-Bay or even Craigslist.

In other words, your position is that poor people don't deserve nice things... not even as gifts.

Fuck that disgusting shit.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

If you're poor and economically sensible and somehow come to own a luxury good like this there's e-Bay or even Craigslist.

In other words, your position is that poor people don't deserve nice things... not even as gifts.

Fuck that disgusting shit.

I was very poor growing up. We were homeless a few times but most of the time lived in apartments. The refrigerator was often nearly empty. [We often had a fridge, stove, and heater due to assistance though Ronnie Raygun tore into the money so we lacked food]. I often lived on bread and mayonnaise sandwiches when I was 10. I was often malnutritioned. One of the best programs ever we took part in was WIC. Cheese, glorious cheese! Many Christmasses my Aunt gave me gifts. Her economic status could be described as middle-class. If someone were to judge us on appliances or gifts we could have received I don't think that would be most representative of either our non-wealth status or our constant lack of nutrition.

 

[laughing dog]

The shooting-blacks-is-always-wrong crowd is trying to pretend he's an innocent.

Wow - that says quite a bit about your view. First of all, it is shooting unarmed civilians is always wrong crowd. Second, Mr. Clark was not in the act of killing anyone or endangering anyone, so there was no real justification for killing him.

B

 

[barbos]

You can (a) raise your hand and they think the phone is a gun. *bang* (b) drop the phone and it makes a noise on the sidewalk. "He's shooting at us! Return fire quick!" (c) Try explaining the situation while they are yelling at you with increasingly physical threats. "Shut up and show your goddam hands. If you don't do exactly as I say, we will shoot you in the head! You have 3 seconds."

If you're worried about that, extend your arms out, not towards the police and lower the contents to the ground.

Gun safety 101: If someone is pointing a gun at you, make no sudden movements unless you have determined that your best chance is to go for a disarm.

For every stupid advice you claim that random black people *should* follow, I can give you an example of a black man following it and still being shot by police.

 On July 18, 2016, Charles Kinsey, a mental health therapist, was shot by police in North Miami, Florida. Kinsey, an African-American man, had been retrieving his autistic 23-year-old patient, who had wandered from his group home. Police encountered the pair while searching for an armed suicidal man. Kinsey was lying on the ground with his hands in the air and trying to negotiate between officers and his patient when he was shot. Both Kinsey and his patient were unarmed. Following the shooting, Kinsey stated he was handcuffed and left bleeding on the ground for 20 minutes with police giving him no medical aid. Authorities stated that they were investigating the incident, which received significant media attention following the appearance of cellphone video footage. The officer who shot Kinsey was arrested in 2017 and charged with attempted manslaughter and negligence. However, he remains employed and has not been fired.
The problem is NOT how black men are reacting. The problem is how the police are acting.

You should have made a thread about that case instead.
But if you are a human working as a police officer you do a lot of profiling and act according to that. And it's unfortunate but blacks do not have favorable profiles.

 

[Toni]

For every stupid advice you claim that random black people *should* follow, I can give you an example of a black man following it and still being shot by police.

 On July 18, 2016, Charles Kinsey, a mental health therapist, was shot by police in North Miami, Florida. Kinsey, an African-American man, had been retrieving his autistic 23-year-old patient, who had wandered from his group home. Police encountered the pair while searching for an armed suicidal man. Kinsey was lying on the ground with his hands in the air and trying to negotiate between officers and his patient when he was shot. Both Kinsey and his patient were unarmed. Following the shooting, Kinsey stated he was handcuffed and left bleeding on the ground for 20 minutes with police giving him no medical aid. Authorities stated that they were investigating the incident, which received significant media attention following the appearance of cellphone video footage. The officer who shot Kinsey was arrested in 2017 and charged with attempted manslaughter and negligence. However, he remains employed and has not been fired.
The problem is NOT how black men are reacting. The problem is how the police are acting.

You should have made a thread about that case instead.
But if you are a human working as a police officer you do a lot of profiling and act according to that. And it's unfortunate but blacks do not have favorable profiles.

Wow.

 

[barbos]

For every stupid advice you claim that random black people *should* follow, I can give you an example of a black man following it and still being shot by police.

 On July 18, 2016, Charles Kinsey, a mental health therapist, was shot by police in North Miami, Florida. Kinsey, an African-American man, had been retrieving his autistic 23-year-old patient, who had wandered from his group home. Police encountered the pair while searching for an armed suicidal man. Kinsey was lying on the ground with his hands in the air and trying to negotiate between officers and his patient when he was shot. Both Kinsey and his patient were unarmed. Following the shooting, Kinsey stated he was handcuffed and left bleeding on the ground for 20 minutes with police giving him no medical aid. Authorities stated that they were investigating the incident, which received significant media attention following the appearance of cellphone video footage. The officer who shot Kinsey was arrested in 2017 and charged with attempted manslaughter and negligence. However, he remains employed and has not been fired.
The problem is NOT how black men are reacting. The problem is how the police are acting.

You should have made a thread about that case instead.
But if you are a human working as a police officer you do a lot of profiling and act according to that. And it's unfortunate but blacks do not have favorable profiles.

Wow.

That's a reality.

 

[Mumbles]

Wow.

That's a reality.

I mean, if you want to entirely concede the argument that police are unjustly murdering people based entirely on skin color, sure. And then we can move on to discuss ideas on what to do about the problem.

Assuming, of course, that you think this is wrong. Now, if you think that it's fine to kill someone based entirely on skin color, then there's a conversation about that as well...

 

[barbos]

Wow.

That's a reality.

I mean, if you want to entirely concede the argument that police are unjustly murdering people based entirely on skin color, sure. And then we can move on to discuss ideas on what to do about the problem.

I concede that everybody including blacks does profiling and more importantly does it the same way.

Assuming, of course, that you think this is wrong. Now, if you think that it's fine to kill someone based entirely on skin color, then there's a conversation about that as well...

Calling it wrong does nothing to fix the problem. I think this will keep happening as long as black crime rate is as high as it is (compared to whites)

 

[Frikki]

You can (a) raise your hand and they think the phone is a gun. *bang* (b) drop the phone and it makes a noise on the sidewalk. "He's shooting at us! Return fire quick!" (c) Try explaining the situation while they are yelling at you with increasingly physical threats. "Shut up and show your goddam hands. If you don't do exactly as I say, we will shoot you in the head! You have 3 seconds."

If you're worried about that, extend your arms out, not towards the police and lower the contents to the ground.

Gun safety 101: If someone is pointing a gun at you, make no sudden movements unless you have determined that your best chance is to go for a disarm.

You just looooove authority. Well it is not unknown with chickenhawks that they overcompensate for their own faults as men with blind obsession with appearing tough.

- - - Updated - - -

If you're poor and economically sensible and somehow come to own a luxury good like this there's e-Bay or even Craigslist.

In other words, your position is that poor people don't deserve nice things... not even as gifts.

Fuck that disgusting shit.

I bet that Loren sold all his nice things when he lost his job a few years ago.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Your approach works only if they have containment. In this sort of case a stand back approach could easily turn into a hostage situation.

A hostage situation??? Why? You are assuming he was violent?

 

[Mumbles]

I mean, if you want to entirely concede the argument that police are unjustly murdering people based entirely on skin color, sure. And then we can move on to discuss ideas on what to do about the problem.

I concede that everybody including blacks does profiling and more importantly does it the same way.

Assuming, of course, that you think this is wrong. Now, if you think that it's fine to kill someone based entirely on skin color, then there's a conversation about that as well...

Calling it wrong does nothing to fix the problem. I think this will keep happening as long as black crime rate is as high as it is (compared to whites)

Actually, there's no reason to think that it's due to any "high black crime rate", given that it predates this by several decades (see: black codes, Jim Crow laws, segregated overpolicing in nearly every US city outside of the south in the US, and the "Brute/Thug" stereotype that gained widespread favor in the mid to late 19th century, when black people were still subject to mass rapes, widespread vigilante violence, and so forth) and is, itself, a given reason for over-policing black communities in the first place. IOW, this is an attempt at the "post hoc" fallacy, only it gets the timeline backwards.

 

[Rhea]

Your approach works only if they have containment. In this sort of case a stand back approach could easily turn into a hostage situation.

A hostage situation??? Why? You are assuming he was violent?

Of course he's assuming that. The man was black. Oh, I'm sorry, in LorenSpeak, he was "A Black."
Therefore, in LorenLand, he is probably guilty, probably violent and certainly not deserving of due process because his death is already known to be a Good Shoot™

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

For every stupid advice you claim that random black people *should* follow, I can give you an example of a black man following it and still being shot by police.

 On July 18, 2016, Charles Kinsey, a mental health therapist, was shot by police in North Miami, Florida. Kinsey, an African-American man, had been retrieving his autistic 23-year-old patient, who had wandered from his group home. Police encountered the pair while searching for an armed suicidal man. Kinsey was lying on the ground with his hands in the air and trying to negotiate between officers and his patient when he was shot. Both Kinsey and his patient were unarmed. Following the shooting, Kinsey stated he was handcuffed and left bleeding on the ground for 20 minutes with police giving him no medical aid. Authorities stated that they were investigating the incident, which received significant media attention following the appearance of cellphone video footage. The officer who shot Kinsey was arrested in 2017 and charged with attempted manslaughter and negligence. However, he remains employed and has not been fired.
The problem is NOT how black men are reacting. The problem is how the police are acting.

You should have made a thread about that case instead.
But if you are a human working as a police officer you do a lot of profiling and act according to that. And it's unfortunate but blacks do not have favorable profiles.

Wow.

And all Russians are alcoholics, good at hockey, and don't understand what good governance is.

 

[barbos]

I concede that everybody including blacks does profiling and more importantly does it the same way.

Calling it wrong does nothing to fix the problem. I think this will keep happening as long as black crime rate is as high as it is (compared to whites)

Actually, there's no reason to think that it's due to any "high black crime rate", given that it predates this by several decades (see: black codes, ...

Black crime rate is objectively higher now. You can argue history this history that but average policeman on the street does not care about that.

 

[Derec]

Of course he's assuming that. The man was black. Oh, I'm sorry, in LorenSpeak, he was "A Black."
Therefore, in LorenLand, he is probably guilty, probably violent and certainly not deserving of due process because his death is already known to be a Good Shoot™

He was convicted of armed robbery and domestic violence, which are violent crimes.
Let's not forget those facts when we listen to CNN harp on about how great a guy "Zoe" was and how he was just minding his business, taking non-existent shortcuts etc.
All we see are family provided photos on the news. Him with his kids etc. Never is any of his head shots shown. That's because that would not fit the narrative they are trying to sell.

 

[Derec]

I was very poor growing up. We were homeless a few times but most of the time lived in apartments. The refrigerator was often nearly empty. [We often had a fridge, stove, and heater due to assistance though Ronnie Raygun tore into the money so we lacked food]. I often lived on bread and mayonnaise sandwiches when I was 10. I was often malnutritioned. One of the best programs ever we took part in was WIC. Cheese, glorious cheese! Many Christmasses my Aunt gave me gifts. Her economic status could be described as middle-class. If someone were to judge us on appliances or gifts we could have received I don't think that would be most representative of either our non-wealth status or our constant lack of nutrition.

But were you buying Beats by Dr. Dre headphones for $200-$300 dollars?