Sudan Massacre

[Bomb#20]

One thing that's for sure, is that pretending that any religion is the ONLY problematic religion is an excellent way to radicalize its adherents.

Pretending that all religions are equally problematic is resulting in the spread of islam... which also leads to women becoming second class citizens often treated as literal property, punishes homosexuality with death, marries off girls at 10 years old, and where the government is run as a religious theocracy.

Who the heck pretends all religions are equally problematic? Not Two-Tier Keir. Sure, the countries that prosecute people for expressing Christian opinions they define as "hate speech" no doubt have laws on the books that also cover equivalent Muslim opinions, but when do those countries ever actually prosecute a Muslim for expressing them?

 

[Bomb#20]

Look around the world. Do you genuinely believe that current, modern day Christianity is *an equal threat* to Islam? That they both do the same amount of harm to non-adherents? That they're equally oppressive of women and homosexuals? That they're equally authoritarian and likely to seek installment of an authoritarian theocracy?

I looked as far as Alabama, and concluded that the answer is "yes".

And that's working within the straitjacket of your requirement only to consider the "current, modern day". History shows that both Islam and Christianity are capable of the very worst of uncivilised, and the very best of civilised, behaviour.

Iran executes two men convicted of blasphemy

Yousef Mehrad and Sadrollah Fazeli-Zare were accused of burning the Quran and insulting the Prophet.

www.bbc.com

But to be fair, that was two years ago; and Iran has eighteen times the population of Alabama. So all it will take to make your case is one Alabaman executed for burning the Bible and insulting the Son of God, since 2007.

 

[Elixir]

Do you genuinely believe that current, modern day Christianity is *an equal threat* to Islam?

Look around the world, Ems.
Modern day Xtians are just as much, or more, of a threat to Muslims as Muslims are to Xtians. Prove me wrong.
You seem to think that you and your fellow Jebus freaks ARE “the world”.
Remember, the most powerful self identified Xtian in the world is Donald Trump and he murders people daily. It’s how he and his Xtian Secretary of WAR get their kicks.

 

[Bomb#20]

Do you genuinely believe that current, modern day Christianity is *an equal threat* to Islam?

Look around the world, Ems.
Modern day Xtians are just as much, or more, of a threat to Muslims as Muslims are to Xtians. Prove me wrong.

Muslims are murdering about five thousand Christians a year, most of them in Nigeria, just for being Christian. If you know of places where Christians are murdering thousands of Muslims each year, share.

You seem to think that you and your fellow Jebus freaks ARE “the world”.

Emily has no "fellow Jebus freaks". So why do you write garbage like that? You know perfectly well she's an atheist.

Remember, the most powerful self identified Xtian in the world is Donald Trump...

... who is a pathological liar motivated solely by self-interest in a job it's hard to succeed at if Xtians don't like you. Why on earth would you think how he self-identified carries any information about whether he is in fact Xtian?

...and he murders people daily. It’s how he and his Xtian Secretary of WAR get their kicks.

Trump murders people because he's an asshole, not because he thinks God wants him to. That makes Trump a threat, but not Christianity. In contrast, there are millions of Muslims who want to murder people because they think God wants them to, and thousands who go ahead and do it. That makes Islam itself a threat, not just murderous individual assholes.

 

[pood]

In contrast, there are millions of Muslims who want to murder people because they think God wants them to, …

Cite?

 

[Bomb#20]

In contrast, there are millions of Muslims who want to murder people because they think God wants them to, …

Cite?

 

[Emily Lake]

Look around the world. Do you genuinely believe that current, modern day Christianity is *an equal threat* to Islam? That they both do the same amount of harm to non-adherents? That they're equally oppressive of women and homosexuals? That they're equally authoritarian and likely to seek installment of an authoritarian theocracy?

I looked as far as Alabama, and concluded that the answer is "yes".

And that's working within the straitjacket of your requirement only to consider the "current, modern day". History shows that both Islam and Christianity are capable of the very worst of uncivilised, and the very best of civilised, behaviour.

You've got to be kidding me. As much as you might find screwy about christianity in Alabama, I can't believe you would say with a straight face that it's equally as harmful as islam in Afghanistan or Iran or any number of other locations.

Look, I get that a whole lot of you atheists are actually a lot more anti-christian that genuinely opposed to religion as a whole. That's fine. But this pretense that christianity is just as bad as islam because several hundred years ago some christians in pre-democratic societies waged religious wars is nutty.

"Well, our neighbor Bob who is currently a responsible adult with a good law-abiding job once beat someone up when he was in high school. So clearly the 30-year old drug-runner down the street who regularly beats up local residents is much less of a risk than Bob."

That's your logic.

 

[Toni]

I disagree. The real issue is religion. Islam is the problem

Two billion Muslims say Christianity is the problem. Who should I believe? I guess whoever wins the war was right, b’cuz neither of their gods ever fucks up.

Look around the world. Do you genuinely believe that current, modern day Christianity is *an equal threat* to Islam? That they both do the same amount of harm to non-adherents? That they're equally oppressive of women and homosexuals? That they're equally authoritarian and likely to seek installment of an authoritarian theocracy?

Uh, yeah, I kinda think there is a case to be made for just that. See almost anything that comes out of DJT’s blow hole.

 

[Emily Lake]

I disagree. The real issue is religion. Islam is the problem

Two billion Muslims say Christianity is the problem. Who should I believe? I guess whoever wins the war was right, b’cuz neither of their gods ever fucks up.

Look around the world. Do you genuinely believe that current, modern day Christianity is *an equal threat* to Islam? That they both do the same amount of harm to non-adherents? That they're equally oppressive of women and homosexuals? That they're equally authoritarian and likely to seek installment of an authoritarian theocracy?

Uh, yeah, I kinda think there is a case to be made for just that. See almost anything that comes out of DJT’s blow hole.

Okay, go ahead and name a single nation that is currently a christian theocracy, or a current christian-dominant nation that classifies women as second-class or non-citizens and denies women the right to exist in public without male supervision, or a current christian dominant nation that punishes homosexuals with death? How about a current christian-dominated country that executes anyone who leaves christianity?

 

[Toni]

I disagree. The real issue is religion. Islam is the problem

Two billion Muslims say Christianity is the problem. Who should I believe? I guess whoever wins the war was right, b’cuz neither of their gods ever fucks up.

Look around the world. Do you genuinely believe that current, modern day Christianity is *an equal threat* to Islam? That they both do the same amount of harm to non-adherents? That they're equally oppressive of women and homosexuals? That they're equally authoritarian and likely to seek installment of an authoritarian theocracy?

Uh, yeah, I kinda think there is a case to be made for just that. See almost anything that comes out of DJT’s blow hole.

Okay, go ahead and name a single nation that is currently a christian theocracy, or a current christian-dominant nation that classifies women as second-class or non-citizens and denies women the right to exist in public without male supervision, or a current christian dominant nation that punishes homosexuals with death? How about a current christian-dominated country that executes anyone who leaves christianity?

Again: Coming to a country near you. See Project 2025.

Now, maybe we'll get lucky and avoid all of that but it isn't because the US electorate has made good decisions recently.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Okay, go ahead and name ... a current christian dominant nation that punishes homosexuals with death?

Uganda has an aggravated homosexuality law that is pretty vague and can result in the death penalty. Suppose an 18 year old and a 16 year old have gay sex. Then, that would fit this law. Suppose someone was drunk or claimed they were unconscious because they didn't want to be put in prison for 20 years. Then, their sex partner could be put to death.

...name a single nation that is currently a christian theocracy...

The Vatican.

Also, Mount Athos, an autonomous region of Greece.

name ... a current christian-dominant nation that classifies women as second-class

The Vatican. Also, women cannot vote in the Vatican. And the Vatican is a model to Catholics in the sense that it influences thoughts about women as second-class or subservient to men. So even though the Vatican is a very small nation, it has a large influence on Christian thinking worldwide.

 

[Elixir]

But to be fair, that was two years ago; and Iran has eighteen times the population of Alabama. So all it will take to make your case is one Alabaman executed for burning the Bible and insulting the Son of God, since 2007.

That sounds great but - STUPID.
Like you don’t know the difference between democracy and theocracy. It has nothing to do with the tenets of either religion. It’s political.

If you know of places where Christians are murdering thousands of Muslims each year…

In parts of central Africa, there have been episodes where militias that describe themselves as “Christian” have wiped out entire Muslim communities. The casualties are not reliably counted in a way that supports a clear “thousands killed by Christians because they are Muslims” description so I guess that’s okay?
If it’s not okay, you can certainly invoke the No Tru Scotsman fallacy to let them off the hook. But be sure to apply that to the muzzies who “murdering thousands of Christians each year” if indeed they exist.
I know a few Muslims and they don’t fit your description of murderers any better than you or Emily.

 

[Elixir]

Okay, go ahead and name a single nation that is currently a christian theocracy, or a current christian-dominant nation that classifies women as second-class or non-citizens

Sounds like the Shithole of Trumpistan all the way.

 

[Emily Lake]

I disagree. The real issue is religion. Islam is the problem

Two billion Muslims say Christianity is the problem. Who should I believe? I guess whoever wins the war was right, b’cuz neither of their gods ever fucks up.

Look around the world. Do you genuinely believe that current, modern day Christianity is *an equal threat* to Islam? That they both do the same amount of harm to non-adherents? That they're equally oppressive of women and homosexuals? That they're equally authoritarian and likely to seek installment of an authoritarian theocracy?

Uh, yeah, I kinda think there is a case to be made for just that. See almost anything that comes out of DJT’s blow hole.

Okay, go ahead and name a single nation that is currently a christian theocracy, or a current christian-dominant nation that classifies women as second-class or non-citizens and denies women the right to exist in public without male supervision, or a current christian dominant nation that punishes homosexuals with death? How about a current christian-dominated country that executes anyone who leaves christianity?

Again: Coming to a country near you. See Project 2025.

Now, maybe we'll get lucky and avoid all of that but it isn't because the US electorate has made good decisions recently.

Do you genuinely and truly believe that the US is headed for becoming WORSE THAN afghanistan, and therefore chistianity is far far worse than islam?

 

[Emily Lake]

You are all off your rockers. You're letting your own hatred of christianity blind you to an objective application of skeptical atheism.

 

[Bomb#20]

But to be fair, that was two years ago; and Iran has eighteen times the population of Alabama. So all it will take to make your case is one Alabaman executed for burning the Bible and insulting the Son of God, since 2007.

That sounds great but - STUPID.
Like you don’t know the difference between democracy and theocracy. It has nothing to do with the tenets of either religion. It’s political.

If you know of places where Christians are murdering thousands of Muslims each year…

In parts of central Africa, there have been episodes where militias that describe themselves as “Christian” have wiped out entire Muslim communities. The casualties are not reliably counted in a way that supports a clear “thousands killed by Christians because they are Muslims” description so I guess that’s okay?
If it’s not okay, you can certainly invoke the No Tru Scotsman fallacy to let them off the hook. But be sure to apply that to the muzzies who “murdering thousands of Christians each year” if indeed they exist.

So to sum up, you are unable to produce evidence for your claim that modern day Xtians are just as much, or more, of a threat to Muslims as Muslims are to Xtians; you are pre-emptively accusing me of a No True Scotsman fallacy over something you think I might potentially say, about ten seconds after you actually commit one yourself; and you feel using an offensive derogatory term for Muslims is a good way to make some imagined point. Jolly good show.

I know a few Muslims and they don’t fit your description of murderers any better than you or Emily.

What's your point? Emily and I didn't claim all or even most Muslims are murderers. Of course you know some who aren't. So do I. How the bejesus is that supposed to show one religion isn't more dangerous than another?

 

[Elixir]

I disagree. The real issue is religion. Islam is the problem

Two billion Muslims say Christianity is the problem. Who should I believe? I guess whoever wins the war was right, b’cuz neither of their gods ever fucks up.

Look around the world. Do you genuinely believe that current, modern day Christianity is *an equal threat* to Islam? That they both do the same amount of harm to non-adherents? That they're equally oppressive of women and homosexuals? That they're equally authoritarian and likely to seek installment of an authoritarian theocracy?

Uh, yeah, I kinda think there is a case to be made for just that. See almost anything that comes out of DJT’s blow hole.

Okay, go ahead and name a single nation that is currently a christian theocracy, or a current christian-dominant nation that classifies women as second-class or non-citizens and denies women the right to exist in public without male supervision, or a current christian dominant nation that punishes homosexuals with death? How about a current christian-dominated country that executes anyone who leaves christianity?

Again: Coming to a country near you. See Project 2025.

Now, maybe we'll get lucky and avoid all of that but it isn't because the US electorate has made good decisions recently.

Do you genuinely and truly believe that the US is headed for becoming WORSE THAN afghanistan, and therefore chistianity is far far worse than islam?

Did I say that I truly believe "that the US is headed for becoming WORSE THAN afghanistan, and therefore chistianity (sic) is far far worse than islam?"

Think real hard Ems. DID I SAY THAT?
For the hundredth time, if you have to ask, the answer is NO.
You'd be a much more credible poster if you could possibly refrain from putting YOUR thoughts in the heads of OTHERS.

 

[Elixir]

What's your point? Emily and I didn't claim all or even most Muslims are murderers. Of course you know some who aren't. So do I. How the bejesus is that supposed to show one religion isn't more dangerous than another?

Well thereya go!
IT DOESN'T
Nor has anyone else shown that one religion is more dangerous than another which is why I took issue with Emily saying "Islam is the problem".
CAPISCHE?

 

[Toni]

I disagree. The real issue is religion. Islam is the problem

Two billion Muslims say Christianity is the problem. Who should I believe? I guess whoever wins the war was right, b’cuz neither of their gods ever fucks up.

Look around the world. Do you genuinely believe that current, modern day Christianity is *an equal threat* to Islam? That they both do the same amount of harm to non-adherents? That they're equally oppressive of women and homosexuals? That they're equally authoritarian and likely to seek installment of an authoritarian theocracy?

Uh, yeah, I kinda think there is a case to be made for just that. See almost anything that comes out of DJT’s blow hole.

Okay, go ahead and name a single nation that is currently a christian theocracy, or a current christian-dominant nation that classifies women as second-class or non-citizens and denies women the right to exist in public without male supervision, or a current christian dominant nation that punishes homosexuals with death? How about a current christian-dominated country that executes anyone who leaves christianity?

Again: Coming to a country near you. See Project 2025.

Now, maybe we'll get lucky and avoid all of that but it isn't because the US electorate has made good decisions recently.

Do you genuinely and truly believe that the US is headed for becoming WORSE THAN afghanistan, and therefore chistianity is far far worse than islam?

I don’t believe that Christianity is better or worse than Islam, Judaism, Buddhism or other religions. I’m not any-religion, but I do object a great deal to any official religion, religious intolerance ( by, for). I see how religion affects different people in different t ways, good and bad, and I see the need it fills for some people. I’ve also seen it used to justify slavery, homophobia, eschewing much needed mental health interventions/therapy and medical care, racism and a whole lot of other isms that basically exist in service to greed and lust for power. None of those ‘evils’ are the sole property of any religious tradition or belief system and that includes atheism.

Do I think the US is headed towards being worse than Afghanistan? Well, that begs the question if Afghanistan when Abd the US when?

But more directly: I think in many ways it is much much much worse if we go down the path Trump Abd his billionaire cabal want to take us fir the simple fact that we know better but we’re choosing to reject all of the promise that exists despite some extremely flawed beginnings and a very imperfect follow through of the basic tenant’s of our guiding document—so that people who are upset we are t perfect can tear things down in their little tantrum, all to make a handful of billionaires richer and more powerful abd more insulated from the consequences of their actions than they already are.

 

[Elixir]

You are all off your rockers. You're letting your own hatred of christianity blind you to an objective application of skeptical atheism.

I have to wonder why you wish that was so.
I don’t “hate Christianity” or any other religion. I generally despise religiosity for all the usual reasons, and have encountered exceptions even to that usually repulsive quality.
I actually have a worse visceral opinion of Zionism than of most, and curiously elevate Christianity to a very lofty notion, based on what I suppose are the good intentions of Christians. But I am not so unaware that I would take those visceral feelings as facts that can be applied IRL. I don’t think Christianity is any better or worse than VooDoo.

I feel like it might be worse, though.