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Sue because your designer baby has the wrong DNA

How is the company liable for her family?

Because they didn't deliver on the product they said they would, and it has greatly impacted their family. It's not like getting the wrong sized pair of socks from amazon.com. This was something that they very carefully thought through and the company very carelessly handled.

I don't know what the typical awards are given for breach of contract cases, but I think it is pretty clear that they could win a breach of contract case.
 
How is the company liable for her family?

Because they didn't deliver on the product they said they would, and it has greatly impacted their family. It's not like getting the wrong sized pair of socks from amazon.com. This was something that they very carefully thought through and the company very carelessly handled.

I don't know what the typical awards are given for breach of contract cases, but I think it is pretty clear that they could win a breach of contract case.

And that's fine. What people have a problem with is the damages part of the case. That's where she's making shit up in order to get more money.
 
And that's fine. What people have a problem with is the damages part of the case. That's where she's making shit up in order to get more money.

Presumably, that will be sorted out in the trial. It is clearly difficult to quantify the 'damages' in this case.
 
Because they didn't deliver on the product they said they would, and it has greatly impacted their family. It's not like getting the wrong sized pair of socks from amazon.com. This was something that they very carefully thought through and the company very carelessly handled.

I don't know what the typical awards are given for breach of contract cases, but I think it is pretty clear that they could win a breach of contract case.

And that's fine. What people have a problem with is the damages part of the case. That's where she's making shit up in order to get more money.

No, she really isn't. A lot of these small towns were put together, specifically, in the days of red-lining and...well, there's still housing discrimination...but they were set up specifically so that the residents would not have to live next to black people, and a lot of the people who moved there for that purpose are still there today. And yeah, a white woman bringing her black kid in for a haircut in a black neighborhood may not get the best reception, either. Whether or not that's worth monetary damage from the sperm bank is up to the court, but the couple actually is looking at a different situation than they had in mind.
 
As it was already pointed to in this thread, the nature of her claim is that she lives in a geographical area where non Caucasian children (let alone bi racial) are bound to be exposed to racially motivated discrimination against them. So, it is not just about a bi racial infant. It is about a projected to be discriminated against child who will grow up in a small town in Ohio, where the demographics indicate only 0.32% of African Americans :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniontown,_Ohio



Further and while checking on data addressing hate groups in Ohio, listing White Supremacy leaning groups along with others( with a majority of hate groups being of White Supremacy leaning) :

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/hate-map#s=OH

On the other end, regarding Stark County where Uniontown is located :

http://www.cantonrep.com/x599207454/Race-relations-Talking-as-a-community-as-a-parent-as-an-educator

When I ask myself the question : if I had a bi racial son or daughter, would I choose to reside in Uniontown, Ohio? The answer is non.

But that's not the only question. You must also consider the question of if you were a lesbian couple who was having a child, would you choose to reside there?
Probably not. However some small communities might be more accepting of same gender couples than larger ones. The indicator for me if I were a gay female and legally married to my wife, from another State (this couple was married in N.Y) would be whether our legal status was recognized and further whether my wife could legally adopt the child conceived from my egg and a donor sperm. Securing my wife as being a legal parent and custodian of the child would be of ultimate importance.

As to evaluating or assessing whether our couple as a legally married same gender couple from another State would be accepted in a small community, the religious profile of the said community would be a second indicator as to a low or moderate or high level of acceptance of our couple. If a high number of conservative Christians, indicator is a lower level of acceptance.

I think Tom you have to somehow be familiar with what is the main source of prejudicial and discriminatory attitudes towards same gender couples in the US. Conservative religious groups and denominations being the primary source.

I don't fathom how a community full of people who'd actively discriminate against a bi-racial child would not also discriminate against a child with two lesbian mothers.
Tom , are you under the impression that the source of prejudice and discrimination against same gender couples and resulting invalidation of their ability to raise a child is the same as the source of racial prejudice and discrimination in the US? Because your comment would sort of imply that. I would have to wonder about which religious motivation fuels the minds of secular minded Americans in this very Forum who are notorious for their disparaging negative stereotyping of persons of Black ethnicity.


They feel that the town that they live in is tolerant and accepting enough of their relationship that they felt comforable having a child there but are now saying that that exact same community would not accept a bi-racial kid?
Have you taken the time to pay attention to several details...? I know Shadowy Man has : and that because he took the time "to read about this case"

http://talkfreethought.org/showthre...as-the-wrong-DNA&p=70237&viewfull=1#post70237

If one actually reads about this case you will note a couple of very important facts:

- the lesbian couple very carefully chose their sperm donor, wanting to have one that had similar physical characteristics to the non-gestating partner. The idea was that in the future that partner might have a child with the same donor and the resulting siblings would have an actual genetic connection and they could all look like a family.

- the mother stated that she did have a hard time with the community being lesbian, and that she didn't want her child to have a similar hard time being biracial.

I think given how carefully the couple had considered what they wanted their family to be, and considered in ways beyond what a heterosexual couple has to think about, it's really horrible that the company was so careless. Even if the mother utterly loves her biracial child, the fact is that their whole lives are going to be very different than they had really planned.



Have those hate groups you mentioned put out a memo that they're cool with the gays now, so their opinions are relevant to the matter in a way that they wouldn't have been if the couple had received the correct sperm?
The data I linked to was relevant to the bio mother's concerns of such extremely low demographic representation of African Americans in Unioncity, 0.32%. Further, if you cared to look at the mapping of hate groups of White Supremacist leaning groups throughout the US, the State of Ohio unfortunately rates as one of the "heartlands" of White Supremacist leaning groups. That there be such an active representation of such groups while there is such an extremely low Black demographic (again only 0.32% of African Americans versus 98% Caucasian) in Unioncity would be an indicator of a racial disparity caused by the presence of racist mentalities, whether overt or subtle.

I hope the above clarifies why I submitted that data. If I look at the demographics in my geographical location, African Americans are not residing and moving in within areas with concentrations of white residents flying a confederate flag in their front yard.



They are lying about the negative impact from the error.
That they be mistaken would be a reasonable conclusion however if supported by documentation that they are. But concluding "they are lying...." places you on the same level as folks in this thread (who IMO did not do what Shadowy Man did) who called her a bitch,selfish...
 
Anybody hear about this?
Apparently a lesbian got donor 330's sperm and not donor 380's sperm and now the child was born bi-racial.
She is suing for undue hardship.
I don't have a link handy ( I am on my phone ) but I saw the woman with her attorney on CNN last night.

As someone who is multiracial and has multiracial cousins, I'm glad my parents, aunt/uncle, and grandparents weren't anything like that bitch.
Unfortunately for the person ,you called a bitch, when it comes to how her relatives and friends are responding to her bi racial daughter,

Her lawyer, Thomas Intili, told NBC News that the mother and child have already experienced prejudice. "Not all of it is overt," he said. "Some of it is the looks on people’s faces. Lines of communication once open to her from friends and families are diminishing."

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ohio-town-trustee-says-biracial-sperm-mix-baby-welcome-n216866

Of course, so far we have no specific details as to which relatives. Assuming they would be distant ones, bio mom and her wife severing ties with them would not impact their daughter. However if close relatives such as siblings, grand parents, uncles/aunts and their children, it means the absence of a large family who should be expected to treat this little girl without any prejudicial attitudes. Eventually, this growing child would be bound to wonder why she never hears from her grand parents, uncles/aunts etc...
 
what I am seeing you say is a third party ( the donor bank ) should pay restitution for racism done by somebody else.
 
what I am seeing you say is a third party ( the donor bank ) should pay restitution for racism done by somebody else.

No. What is being said is that the clinic which behaved in such a careless manner that it unnecessarily imposed burdens and costs on its patients should bear some financial responsibility for those costs. Some cannot be quantified or assigned a dollar value easily. That does not make them any less real.
 
what I am seeing you say is a third party ( the donor bank ) should pay restitution for racism done by somebody else.

No. What is being said is that the clinic which behaved in such a careless manner that it unnecessarily imposed burdens and costs on its patients should bear some financial responsibility for those costs. Some cannot be quantified or assigned a dollar value easily. That does not make them any less real.
I'm seeing the burden being describe as racism, why should the donor bank have to pay for that?
is the product the woman ended up with less valuable than the product she thought she was getting?
 
This thread is focused on the wrong question. It is beyond any reasonable doubt that her suit has legal merit, including damages. They put an organism in her body that she did not agree to. Even if she had aborted it, they'd owe her as much if not even more money for the going through the process and abortion of an unwanted pregnancy.
Put it this way, if a contraception pill company screwed up and put aspirin in women's prescription and she got pregnant, wouldn't they owe her massive money whether she kept the baby or aborted it? This is essentially the same thing.

The only room for reasonable debate is whether she should cause the very likely psychological harm to her kid that will result from the lawsuit itself.
There is no spin or whitewash that will hide the clear and objective implication of her suit that she did not want the kid and made someone give her money to pay for the unwanted burden that the child represents. That fact will become known to the child, its friends and the community. The potential harm is at least as likely as the hypothetical harm of being bi-racial that she is basing her suit upon.
 
No. What is being said is that the clinic which behaved in such a careless manner that it unnecessarily imposed burdens and costs on its patients should bear some financial responsibility for those costs. Some cannot be quantified or assigned a dollar value easily. That does not make them any less real.
I'm seeing the burden being describe as racism, why should the donor bank have to pay for that?
is the product the woman ended up with less valuable than the product she thought she was getting?

The clinic was very careless. As a result of their carelessness, this family will incur extra costs and experience greater hardships. The clinic is responsible. They should compensate for these extra cost.

Another reason is that if they are penalized sufficiently for their carelessness, perhaps they will put into place the safeguards they should and avoid other errors with potentially more serious consequences.
 
I'm seeing the burden being describe as racism, why should the donor bank have to pay for that?
is the product the woman ended up with less valuable than the product she thought she was getting?

First of all, racism is not the only "damage" here. Secondly, the value one puts on the product received is not relevant to the breach of contract made by the company in delivering the wrong product. And a human being is far more than a "product" and this complicates the whole case. Treating the issue with sensitivity and nuance is the proper approach. I just hope that whoever adjudicates this is more thoughtful than the majority of posters here (and, it should go without saying, commenters on the various online articles about this case).
 
what I am seeing you say is a third party ( the donor bank ) should pay restitution for racism done by somebody else.
I have not commented at all as to whether the sperm bank should pay restitution for damages. My posts have been intended to address the possibility that this bio mother truly believes (versus being a"bitch" or "selfish" or "lying") that raising her bi racial child in that specific geographical location will be detrimental to the child. That her couple's initial choice to specifically request a Caucasian child was motivated by various factors (already mentioned in this thread by folks who actually read about the case). The mishap regarding a Black sperm donor resulted in changing the dynamics she and her wife had planned for (plans mentioned again in this thread and in details by Shadowy Man). I have just recently quoted his post in my reply to Tom.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm seeing the burden being describe as racism, why should the donor bank have to pay for that?
is the product the woman ended up with less valuable than the product she thought she was getting?

First of all, racism is not the only "damage" here. Secondly, the value one puts on the product received is not relevant to the breach of contract made by the company in delivering the wrong product. And a human being is far more than a "product" and this complicates the whole case. Treating the issue with sensitivity and nuance is the proper approach. I just hope that whoever adjudicates this is more thoughtful than the majority of posters here (and, it should go without saying, commenters on the various online articles about this case).

Key words being "sensitivity and nuance". Which you have demonstrated in this discussion and I am grateful you have.
 
I am not seeing the "nuance" articulated, I see that white lesbian gets funny looks from racists and weirdos because her bi-racial baby should have never been... now wants cash from donor bank because there are weirdos and racists looking at her baby.
 
And that's fine. What people have a problem with is the damages part of the case. That's where she's making shit up in order to get more money.

Why should that be so hard. She had expectations based on her selection sperm from a white donor. The company didn't perform. She is damaged by having to adjust to caring for one she hadn't chosen which requires extra effort and acceptance beyond what she is obviously unable to provide. Unwanted conditions puts her in a position likely to damage her reputation as a caring person which would not have occurred if the baby were only ugly.
 
And that's fine. What people have a problem with is the damages part of the case. That's where she's making shit up in order to get more money.

Why should that be so hard. She had expectations based on her selection sperm from a white donor. The company didn't perform. She is damaged by having to adjust to caring for one she hadn't chosen which requires extra effort and acceptance beyond what she is obviously unable to provide. Unwanted conditions puts her in a position likely to damage her reputation as a caring person which would not have occurred if the baby were only ugly.

so this is about her reputation...whether she cares for the baby whether she is caring of that baby..
this is stupid.
 
No. What is being said is that the clinic which behaved in such a careless manner that it unnecessarily imposed burdens and costs on its patients should bear some financial responsibility for those costs. Some cannot be quantified or assigned a dollar value easily. That does not make them any less real.
I'm seeing the burden being describe as racism, why should the donor bank have to pay for that?
is the product the woman ended up with less valuable than the product she thought she was getting?

Because they are the ones who fucked up.

As a black guy, let me put it another way. I would not want any theoretical child of mine to be gay. Having an interracial child, okay, I would accept it, I would clearly be choosing it when I slept with the mother. But in my view, a gay child would simply be facing further hurdles, in addition to racism.

But, if I were to have a child, and that child were to be gay...oh, Anyone who messes with my child will answer to my swords. I'm angry because of the homophobic discrimination, and not because of who my child would be.

I suspect this is the same sort of thing. This couple asked for a donor that resembled the partner because that would be easier. But now that they are a lesbian couple with a biracial child, they are going to war. And if suing the sperm bank let's them build a better life for their kid, they'll sue them.

But I guess...we'll wait and see.
 
I am not seeing the "nuance" articulated, I see that white lesbian gets funny looks from racists and weirdos because her bi-racial baby should have never been...
IMO if you read our replies carefully you would.... the reason why I said carefully is because it appeared that you had not read Toni's response to you carefully :

http://talkfreethought.org/showthre...as-the-wrong-DNA&p=69981&viewfull=1#post69981

as you, in a further post, commented back at another poster,

http://talkfreethought.org/showthre...as-the-wrong-DNA&p=70013&viewfull=1#post70013

with this reply,

well yeah, why not?
when Toni previously took the time and made the effort to detail for you (and document it) why the bio mother did not have an abortion.

Seeing the kind of inane reply you gave Toni, it may be more than just lack of careful reading on your part.
 
yeah Sabine Grant I don't always follow threads as closely as others. so I didn't see the "nuance" presented.
either way you didn't quote the "nuance" so I might go find it in your links you posted.
thanks though, I am just trying to figure this mess of litigation out, it isn't so hard to understand people giving funny looks when you look at them.... :)
 
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