Swedish women professors promoted with fewer citations, publications than men

[Metaphor]

In Sweden, a study shows that female academics are promoted to professorhood while having fewer citations and publications than male academics. The study looked at academic achievement at the time they were promoted to professor.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/03075079.2020.1723533

In summary, Table 7 and Figures 1–4 show that males had significantly more publications and publications per year in the Social Sciences cluster, and had more publications, citations, and citations per year in Medicine, as well as a higher h-index in both. There were no differences in journal IF.

We tested the hypothesis that when appointed to the rank of professor, females have higher publication merits than males, reflecting a sex bias favouring males at Swedish universities. The data falsified this hypothesis, in that none of the 12 comparisons (2 discipline clusters × 6 metrics based on WoS data) exhibited any significant effect in this direction. In contrast, six of these metrics exhibited significantly (p < .05) higher values for males after Holm correction. In terms of magnitude, males had 64%–80% more scientific publications that had attained 42%–260% more citations, resulting in a 72%–83% larger h-index (Table 7). While these are quite large differences, their effect sizes were more moderate, due to the large variability stemming both from individual differences (Simonton 2014) and differences between disciplines, in the case of the Social Sciences.

The present study measures productivity at the specific point in an academic’s career when they are evaluated for the rank of professor. If that rank was attained exclusively on the basis of their academic performance, in accord with both the legislation and academic principles, women and men’s merits should have been equal. The results show that at this point, and regardless of other potential differences in age, funding, number of children etc., female professors had, on average, lower levels of scholarly achievement than male professors.

What can Sweden do to eliminate its bias against promoting male academics?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Poor Metaphor. *hugs*

Maybe we should move this to Support Fireside?

 

[Metaphor]

Poor Metaphor. *hugs*

Maybe we should move this to Support Fireside?

Thank you for your considered and insightful reply.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Husbands most often have the women take a break and take care of the kids. Even in a liberal place like Sweden where there is father's time off after birth of child, it's still a bit different for the sexes.

Most children have a working mother, based on the fact that 80 per cent of women between 20 and 64 are employed. The figure for men between 20 and 64 is 85 per cent, so most children also have fathers with jobs. Parents gets 480 days of paid parental leave per child to share between them. These days must be claimed before the child turns eight or finishes the first year in school. Most parental leave is taken by mothers, but fathers are spending an increasing amount of time at home with their children. Men now claim about 30 per cent of all parental leave taken.

https://sweden.se/society/children-and-young-people-in-sweden/#

So, as a result there are less women in long-term academic careers or rather more women take time off because this is what happens.

So, this comparison of averages is comparing many more men and very few women who are in different disciplines and sometimes the same discipline. But if you imagine there is some cutoff, women and men make the cutoff, but men have a higher average.

Here's a hypothetical example:
Woman1 - 5 publications
Woman2 - 12 publications
Woman3 - 11 publications

Man1 - 11 publications
Man2 - 5 publications
Man3 - 17 publications
Man4 - 12 publications
Man5 - 20 publications
Man6 - 11 publications

 

[Metaphor]

So, this comparison of averages is comparing many more men and very few women who are in different disciplines and sometimes the same discipline.

The authors were aware of the problems of comparing across disciplines, so they compared within disciplines (e.g. within social sciences, within medicine). They excluded some disciplines (such as visual and performing arts) where peer-reviewed article publication is not the main basis for promotion to professorship nor the main activity of professors.

But if you imagine there is some cutoff, women and men make the cutoff, but men have a higher average.

Here's a hypothetical example:
Woman1 - 5 publications
Woman2 - 12 publications
Woman3 - 11 publications

Man1 - 11 publications
Man2 - 5 publications
Man3 - 17 publications
Man4 - 12 publications
Man5 - 20 publications
Man6 - 11 publications

No: if the cutoff were the same, men would be promoted earlier in their careers, at the time they reached the cutoff.

The authors specifically chose to examine publication record at the time of promotion.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

So, this comparison of averages is comparing many more men and very few women who are in different disciplines and sometimes the same discipline.

The authors were aware of the problems of comparing across disciplines, ...

I know and some of the difference was attributable to that but not all and so they want to discuss the remaining part.

...so they compared within disciplines (e.g. within social sciences, within medicine). They excluded some disciplines (such as visual and performing arts) where peer-reviewed article publication is not the main basis for promotion to professorship nor the main activity of professors.

But if you imagine there is some cutoff, women and men make the cutoff, but men have a higher average.

Here's a hypothetical example:
Woman1 - 5 publications
Woman2 - 12 publications
Woman3 - 11 publications

Man1 - 11 publications
Man2 - 5 publications
Man3 - 17 publications
Man4 - 12 publications
Man5 - 20 publications
Man6 - 11 publications

No: if the cutoff were the same, men would be promoted earlier in their careers, at the time they reached the cutoff.

The authors specifically chose to examine publication record at the time of promotion.

No that's an assumption. People apply to professorships when they are ready to do so, whatever that may mean.

The authors did not find a difference in either AGE or number of children. So, this means roughly the same age.

Over a window of time where publications are typically done prior to professorship, let's say 10 years just to get something concrete, the couples may have children, and most of the time the child-rearing is more on the woman. So, over the 10 years, she has less publications than he does, until they are the same age, let's say 34 or whatever.

So at the time of professorship, she has less and he has more on average.

Let's just look at numbers so we can see how this could impact something. Supposing a couple has 10 years where they are having children....and in and out of taking time off to raise them prior to getting children into school. Suppose the couple has 3 children. Sweden gives 480 days off parental leave per child to be divided up, but 30 percent of men take it, meaning I suppose 70 percent or thereabouts women take it...discounting same-sex couples since this is just an estimate and same-sex couples are a smaller proportion of all couples.

In 10 years of serious academic work, 3 blocks of 480 days is significant. Raising the child is even more time, but consider only the legislated time off so we just have a minimal concrete number to look at.

Woman: starting 3650 days - 70%*3*480 = 2642 days for academia
Man: starting 3650 days - 30%*3*480 = 3218 days for academia

Obviously, these are not intended to be real numbers but just to illustrate orders of magnitude and how such differences are significant to outcomes. I mean, child-rearing doesn't end at school and 480 days off of work is not the same as how long it takes to raise a kid. 10 years in academia prior to a professorship is also just an arbitrary number of the appropriate order of magnitude--it's not 1 year and it's not 100.

 

[Metaphor]

No that's an assumption. People apply to professorships when they are ready to do so, whatever that may mean.

That's the exact opposite of what is usually offered as a way to explain away differential promotion.

In my workplace six years ago, an independent audit discovered that women were more likely to be promoted when there were 'bulk' promotion rounds. Of course, the organisation did not attribute this to a pro-female bias by promotions panels nor did they say women were better in general, but that men were more likely to 'throw their hat in the ring' They meant, men apply for promotion even when they do not necessarily have the strongest case they could have, whereas women had to be very confident (and therefore the ones that apply are probably more qualified on average) before they applied.

If that reasoning were true, we should see women being promoted to professorship have a higher average publication quality etc. But they don't. And so now we are supposed to believe women are more confident than men in applying for promotions.

Or perhaps men are aware that academia is biased against them, and they need to achieve more to get promoted over a woman? Nah, that could not plausibly be a reason.

The authors did not find a difference in either AGE or number of children. So, this means roughly the same age.

the mean age when being appointed in the present study was 52.3 years for females and 50.0 years for males

Men were promoted at a younger mean age and yet still they had higher qualifications and academic merit than the women who were promoted.

Over a window of time where publications are typically done prior to professorship, let's say 10 years just to get something concrete, the couples may have children, and most of the time the child-rearing is more on the woman. So, over the 10 years, she has less publications than he does, until they are the same age, let's say 34 or whatever.

So at the time of professorship, she has less and he has more on average.

If women are achieving lower academic merit because they choose to rear children, why should they be treated as if they had achieved the same academic merit?

 

[ZiprHead]

Are published articles the only criteria used to choose professorship?

 

[Metaphor]

Are published articles the only criteria used to choose professorship?

No, some institutions that are not particularly research-heavy will also look at your teaching record (or at least pay lip-service to looking at it). But during my years at university (as a postgrad student and casual academic), the message was clear and unambiguous: publish or perish.

 

[Derec]

Poor Metaphor. *hugs*

Maybe we should move this to Support Fireside?

Sexism against men is considered a virtue on the Left.

 

[RVonse]

Poor Metaphor. *hugs*

Maybe we should move this to Support Fireside?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WMuzhQXJoY&list=PLWcryWcMTsJAsZpMuZeSK80sTLkjwdaAE&index=246

 

[Trausti]

There is a bias against boys. But boys are made of frogs and snails and puppy dog's tails; girls of sugar and spice and all that is nice.

Boys lag behind: How teachers’ gender biases affect student achievement

 

[Trausti]

Oppressed by the matriarchy.

Teachers 'give higher marks to girls'

An OECD report on gender in education, across more than 60 countries, found that girls receive higher marks compared with boys of the same ability.

 

[barbos]

Women professors gravitate to teaching so it's natural to have less publications.
In any case, pumping publication counts is a well known sport in academia. if it was up to me I would have set a limit and even retroactively fire people who have excessive number of lower quality publications.
One publication per week or even month is by definition garbage.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

That's the exact opposite of what is usually offered as a way to explain away differential promotion.

In my workplace six years ago, an independent audit discovered that women were more likely to be promoted when there were 'bulk' promotion rounds. Of course, the organisation did not attribute this to a pro-female bias by promotions panels nor did they say women were better in general, but that men were more likely to 'throw their hat in the ring' They meant, men apply for promotion even when they do not necessarily have the strongest case they could have, whereas women had to be very confident (and therefore the ones that apply are probably more qualified on average) before they applied.

If that reasoning were true, we should see women being promoted to professorship have a higher average publication quality etc. But they don't. And so now we are supposed to believe women are more confident than men in applying for promotions.

Or perhaps men are aware that academia is biased against them, and they need to achieve more to get promoted over a woman? Nah, that could not plausibly be a reason.

the mean age when being appointed in the present study was 52.3 years for females and 50.0 years for males

Men were promoted at a younger mean age and yet still they had higher qualifications and academic merit than the women who were promoted.

Over a window of time where publications are typically done prior to professorship, let's say 10 years just to get something concrete, the couples may have children, and most of the time the child-rearing is more on the woman. So, over the 10 years, she has less publications than he does, until they are the same age, let's say 34 or whatever.

So at the time of professorship, she has less and he has more on average.

If women are achieving lower academic merit because they choose to rear children, why should they be treated as if they had achieved the same academic merit?

They aren't. Only 27% are women.

...which is perfectly consistent with minimal requirements being the same but men meeting them more for engaging in child rearing less.

Stop screaming bias. Jeez.

I even gave you numbers with about a third women, two thirds men, having different averages, BUT THE SAME CUT-OFF.

Your ideological faith has no leg to stand on.

 

[ruby sparks]

Are published articles the only criteria used to choose professorship?

As I understand it, it has traditionally been the main criterion. Women academics, I read, are more inclined towards teaching (and other activities such as administration and pastoral duties) but these are not counted as promotion merits to the same degree, I believe. I think it's true that women academics produce less research publications.

Also, women, I believe, tend to do more of the domestic duties (taking care of children, or elderly parents, sometimes including the male partner's parents, and household work generally) so this could affect their paid employment productivity. This may be less true in Sweden than in most countries, but I think it's still a factor. To me it sounds like a version of the 'Double Shift'. I doubt it accounts for all of the differences in productivity, probably just some of them.

I think the picture is complicated (are women doing those extra domestic duties because they want to or because someone needs to do them and the men are not as willing?) but it seems clear that in Sweden there is a push to increase the numbers of women professors:

"The government is now raising the level of ambition significantly for the period 2017–2019. New recruitment targets for even gender distribution among newly recruited professors are written into the new regulation letters for universities and colleges. On average, this is an increase of nine percentage points per university for the coming target period. In addition, for the first time, the government has set a national target: as many women as men will be recruited as professors by 2030."
(Helene Hellmark Knutsson, Swedish Minister for Higher Education and Research, January 2017.)

https://www.regeringen.se/debattart...n skadligt för kvaliteten på svensk forskning.

 

[BH]

How hard, with those already meeting the requirements to be considered for a job, does that job have to be when what matters to get promoted is the sex organ between your legs or the color of your skin.

I am in management in a retail environment and it's an open secret promotions are heavily based not on your job knowledge or previous work quality but what your gender or race is. I decided long ago any job where those factors could be a major factor or the major factor are jobs that really arent that hard to do in the first place. I suspect those academic jobs are the same. All the applicants have the relevant prerequisites where they are legally allowed to fill the spot (they have a high academic degree, teach, published). If the big factor getting the promotion is being male or female or the color of your skin, probably anyone with the prerequisites could probably fill it.

 

[Metaphor]

They aren't. Only 27% are women.

What is that supposed to mean? If they had to reach the same standards as the men being promoted, it would be even less than 27%.

...which is perfectly consistent with minimal requirements being the same but men meeting them more for engaging in child rearing less.

No. It is not consistent with that. If there was a minimal requirement to be promoted to professorship, men would get promoted as soon as they qualified.

Stop screaming bias. Jeez.

I even gave you numbers with about a third women, two thirds men, having different averages, BUT THE SAME CUT-OFF.

Your ideological faith has no leg to stand on.

Good god: it certainly takes a religionist like you to see other people as having faith.

Your 'scenario' is inconsistent with the evidence. If there were some minimal bar that was the same for both men and women, then people would be promoted as soon as they reached that bar. If the bar is at the level that women are being promoted, then men would simply make the bar earlier without accumulating 'extras' before they get promoted.

Though, you've convinced me of one thing. You've convinced me that there is no evidence that could possibly convince you.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

There are limited opportunities for a promotion to occur. They don't just magically happen whenever you want or ad infinitum.

 

[Toni]

So, this comparison of averages is comparing many more men and very few women who are in different disciplines and sometimes the same discipline.

The authors were aware of the problems of comparing across disciplines, so they compared within disciplines (e.g. within social sciences, within medicine). They excluded some disciplines (such as visual and performing arts) where peer-reviewed article publication is not the main basis for promotion to professorship nor the main activity of professors.

But if you imagine there is some cutoff, women and men make the cutoff, but men have a higher average.

Here's a hypothetical example:
Woman1 - 5 publications
Woman2 - 12 publications
Woman3 - 11 publications

Man1 - 11 publications
Man2 - 5 publications
Man3 - 17 publications
Man4 - 12 publications
Man5 - 20 publications
Man6 - 11 publications

No: if the cutoff were the same, men would be promoted earlier in their careers, at the time they reached the cutoff.

The authors specifically chose to examine publication record at the time of promotion.

Perhaps Sweden promotes differently than universities in the US, but there is no 'cut off' for once you've achieved X number of publications and/or citations, one is granted promotion. Generally, promotions are granted after the applicant applies for promotion and submits a promotion packet in which is outlined the number of publications, citations, classroom evaluations, courses taught, university service and community service projects, etc. Generally, the quality and prestige of the publications is also taken into consideration, as well as whether the applicant was the primary investigator/author, or one of 20 or so who are listed because they contributed to the paper. A smaller number of significant articles published in more prestigious universities counts more than a larger number of publications in less well regarded or less rigorous journals, etc. In some disciplines, certain journals exist solely to give people within that discipline a place to publish articles so that they can go up for promotion or tenure and the standards are significantly lower.

I have no idea how universities in Sweden award promotions, etc.