Teen shot 7 times and killed by police officer - ruled "justified" of course

[TSwizzle]

As I said earlier, I am done with this.

I thought your complaints about my post represented a willingness to engage in the topic. Ooops.

I don't know why you would think that as I did say "I was done with this" a few posts ago. So I guess we have things straightened out now.

 

[Rhea]

The action of jumping up and attacking officer Frost is just that, an attack.

Okay. So "a poster" has left this open in the discussion. [note, this could be a misrepresentation of the poster's position. If you have another interpretation, feel free to post it]

It appears to claim that jumping up after just having been tased can only be a deliberate and frightening attack that requires lethal force in response. People have no other reason at all to jump up after having been surprised by extreme pain unexpectedly from behind.

And this unambiguous Truth™ is why it is appropriate that a teenager is shot 7 times and killed.
There is no other possibility except the one that leads to shooting.

Do people agree that this is the only possible interpretation of events?

 

[Tom Sawyer]

You know who jumps up and attacks after getting tased instead of falling down?

Frigging zombies, that's who. This isn't a post-apocolyptic situation, so there's no need to conserve ammo when facing potential zombies and you should just keep firing until you're sure the thing is down for good.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Don't put words in my mouth.

You explain then. Explain what makes this an attack and what happened just before the boy jumped up, and why it could not be anything other than the attack.

_Did_ this jump happen immediately after the boy was tased? Yes/ No
_Did_ the boy have his back to the taser and therefore did not know it was coming? Yes/No
_Does_ a taser hurt, like, a lot? Yes/No
_Do_ people sometimes react without thinking after unexpectedly receiving a huge amount of pain from someone behind them? Yes/No

2) He was told he would be tased if he didn't put both arms behind his back. He didn't put the second arm back, he got tased. No surprise.

3) The taser failed. Thus whether they hurt tit irrelevant.

4) As this one is based on a false premise it's irrelevant.

 

[Rhea]

3) The taser failed. Thus whether they hurt tit irrelevant.

what does this mean?

4) As this one is based on a false premise it's irrelevant.

What does this mean?

 

[ksen]

2) He was told he would be tased if he didn't put both arms behind his back. He didn't put the second arm back, he got tased. No surprise.

Also not a condoned use of a taser.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

what does this mean?

4) As this one is based on a false premise it's irrelevant.

What does this mean?

The taser failed to do it's job, reason unknown. Given the geometry I wouldn't be surprised if the wires crossed.

As #4 is based on the taser functioning it's irrelevant as it didn't.

 

[Toni]

You explain then. Explain what makes this an attack and what happened just before the boy jumped up, and why it could not be anything other than the attack.

_Did_ this jump happen immediately after the boy was tased? Yes/ No
_Did_ the boy have his back to the taser and therefore did not know it was coming? Yes/No
_Does_ a taser hurt, like, a lot? Yes/No
_Do_ people sometimes react without thinking after unexpectedly receiving a huge amount of pain from someone behind them? Yes/No

2) He was told he would be tased if he didn't put both arms behind his back. He didn't put the second arm back, he got tased. No surprise.

3) The taser failed. Thus whether they hurt tit irrelevant.

4) As this one is based on a false premise it's irrelevant.

No Loren. The entire point of a taser IS that they hurt. It's entirely relevant.

 

[Malintent]

The action of jumping up and attacking officer Frost is just that, an attack.

Okay. So "a poster" has left this open in the discussion. [note, this could be a misrepresentation of the poster's position. If you have another interpretation, feel free to post it]

It appears to claim that jumping up after just having been tased can only be a deliberate and frightening attack that requires lethal force in response. People have no other reason at all to jump up after having been surprised by extreme pain unexpectedly from behind.

And this unambiguous Truth™ is why it is appropriate that a teenager is shot 7 times and killed.
There is no other possibility except the one that leads to shooting.

Do people agree that this is the only possible interpretation of events?

he didn't just "jump up".. as I said when I posted the exact time sequence, he jumped up with his hand raised. The next several seconds, they were in close contact with each other, obscuring the video (all black). So, he didn't just "jump up". As I said, he jumped up with a raised hand and engaged the officer at extremely close mele range. Only a complete asshole would attempt to interpret this as anything but a physical attack.

 

[abaddon]

Only a complete asshole would attempt to interpret this as anything but a physical attack.

I think people are just preferring to abstain from finalizing on any interpretation rather than finding an alternate interpretation. "I don't know" is my stance because 1) it doesn't look like he started in with his fists in that last second of visuals; and 2) the officer's story is incredible -- all that getting punched in the face to the point of nearly going unconscious and then needing to turn his hip some to get his pistol out and then needing to empty a bad cartridge and then opening fire... ALL while a 17 year old boy is sitting on his waist and pummeling his face, and all that in the space of about 10 seconds. Then, before EMS sees him and he gets pictures of his bloodied face, his fellow officers exit him from the scene to somewhere for a while... It all casts some doubt on the favored interpretation.

Do you attack people with your palm? The last split second of visuals it appears Deven reaches at the officer or at something the officer's holding with an open palm.

Now I know that anything Deven might have done after jumping up and reaching at the officer will be interpreted as an “attack” by people who think you just cannot do anything, intentionally or instinctively, to protect the integrity of your body when you feel it’s in serious danger when it’s a police officer that is creating that threat. You’re supposed to just lay there and get twisted and pulled and jabbed and have some sudden piercing-burning sensation suddenly strike in your lower back and through it all just keep saying “yes sir, yes sir" in abject obedience.

If what Frost did is lawful then the reason for the argument about Frost is due to disagreeing with some of what's considered lawful and unlawful. If Deven got up and tried to push the officer aside so he could make a run for home, then I for one do not interpret that as an ‘attack’.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

2) He was told he would be tased if he didn't put both arms behind his back. He didn't put the second arm back, he got tased. No surprise.

3) The taser failed. Thus whether they hurt tit irrelevant.

4) As this one is based on a false premise it's irrelevant.

No Loren. The entire point of a taser IS that they hurt. It's entirely relevant.

Reality to Toni: The taser didn't work. That means it didn't hurt much at all--at worst one barb hit him.

 

[Toni]

No Loren. The entire point of a taser IS that they hurt. It's entirely relevant.

Reality to Toni: The taser didn't work. That means it didn't hurt much at all--at worst one barb hit him.

A barb DID hit him. We know from the very abbreviated autopsy report released to the public.

Why do tasers cause pain? Why do they sometimes result in the death of seemingly healthy individuals?

Come on, Loren. You are not unintelligent.

 

[Toni]

Okay. So "a poster" has left this open in the discussion. [note, this could be a misrepresentation of the poster's position. If you have another interpretation, feel free to post it]

It appears to claim that jumping up after just having been tased can only be a deliberate and frightening attack that requires lethal force in response. People have no other reason at all to jump up after having been surprised by extreme pain unexpectedly from behind.

And this unambiguous Truth™ is why it is appropriate that a teenager is shot 7 times and killed.
There is no other possibility except the one that leads to shooting.

Do people agree that this is the only possible interpretation of events?

he didn't just "jump up".. as I said when I posted the exact time sequence, he jumped up with his hand raised. The next several seconds, they were in close contact with each other, obscuring the video (all black). So, he didn't just "jump up". As I said, he jumped up with a raised hand and engaged the officer at extremely close mele range. Only a complete asshole would attempt to interpret this as anything but a physical attack.

Extremely close mele range. Snort.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

he didn't just "jump up".. as I said when I posted the exact time sequence, he jumped up with his hand raised. The next several seconds, they were in close contact with each other, obscuring the video (all black). So, he didn't just "jump up". As I said, he jumped up with a raised hand and engaged the officer at extremely close mele range. Only a complete asshole would attempt to interpret this as anything but a physical attack.

It's possible that the victim of the attack from the police officer did in fact counter-attack. Is it likely? It's hard to say. There are some other possibilities, too. It's also entirely possible that the victim of the cell phone rough-up and tasing also just tried to remove the cop's taser or gun, if the cop had it out and that the officer was aiming it. It's also possible that if the victim of the tasing received a charge that he was off-balance and a little out of it. It's also possible that the victim was entirely shocked from the cop's actions and thought his life was in danger just as the police officer claims he thought the kid was in the militia, yeah right... Now if the victim of the police attack did in fact counter-attack the officer and it was not defense, was it actually life-threatening to the officer? Probably not, but that's possible, too. None of these possibilities/probabilities absolve the officer from escalating the situation or shooting the kid 7 times.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Reality to Toni: The taser didn't work. That means it didn't hurt much at all--at worst one barb hit him.

A barb DID hit him. We know from the very abbreviated autopsy report released to the public.

Why do tasers cause pain? Why do they sometimes result in the death of seemingly healthy individuals?

Come on, Loren. You are not unintelligent.

Given that the taser didn't work only one barb hit. It's not the barbs that cause the pain.

And they don't seem to kill healthy people--many thousands of cops undergo it in training, nobody dies.

 

[laughing dog]

A barb DID hit him. We know from the very abbreviated autopsy report released to the public.

Why do tasers cause pain? Why do they sometimes result in the death of seemingly healthy individuals?

Come on, Loren. You are not unintelligent.

Given that the taser didn't work only one barb hit. It's not the barbs that cause the pain.

And they don't seem to kill healthy people--many thousands of cops undergo it in training, nobody dies.

You need to stop evading the issue. What is the factual basis for your claim that the victim did not feel any pain from the taser even though one barb hit?

 

[laughing dog]

Only a complete asshole would attempt to interpret this as anything but a physical attack.

That is a more accurate description of the actual events.

 

[Toni]

A barb DID hit him. We know from the very abbreviated autopsy report released to the public.

Why do tasers cause pain? Why do they sometimes result in the death of seemingly healthy individuals?

Come on, Loren. You are not unintelligent.

Given that the taser didn't work only one barb hit. It's not the barbs that cause the pain.

And they don't seem to kill healthy people--many thousands of cops undergo it in training, nobody dies.

Well, at least you aren't claiming it didn't work because of the kid's heavy jacket. So either you actually watched a video (doubtful) or someone clued you in that people were telling the truth and the kid was dressed in a t shirt and khaki shorts.

But given how fond you are of making claims based on your own impressions and not on fact at all, please forgive me for actually investigating your claims.

Actually, tasers have killed apparently healthy people (see below). Also please note the use of 'apparently' as it is frankly not possible to know if someone has an underlying heart condition or other medical issue that would put them at increased risk for serious injury or death due to being hit with a taser. But some deaths have resulted where the victim had no underlying medical cause identified during autopsy.

Tell us again how tasers cause pain? And does being hit by a single barb such that it penetrates skin cause pain even without an electrical current? Because I'm willing to bet that if someone were to hit you with a taser it would hurt, even if only one barb penetrated your skin.

From Wiki.

Several incidents have received publicity.

2003

November 2003 Las Vegas, Nevada, police officer Lisa Peterson is severely injured (including traumatic internal disc disruption and persistent dizziness) during a training exercise under controlled conditions.[33]

2004

A 2004 CBS News report described 70 deaths believed to be caused by the Taser, including 10 in August 2004 alone.[34] At that time Amnesty International reported the number at 150 since June 2001.[35]

2005

July 2005, UK. West Yorkshire Police tasered a man in hypoglycemic shock, while unresponsive and alone on a bus in a bus depot, believing that he was a potential security threat.[36]
A medical examiner ruled for the first time that a Taser was the primary factor in a death.[37]

2006

April 2006, USA. A 56-year-old, wheelchair bound woman dies after ten Taser shocks, death ruled homicide.[38]
October 2006, USA. 17-year-old Derek Jones of Martinsville Virginia died after being repeatedly Tasered by police.[39]
November 2006, USA. UCLA Taser incident

2007

September 2007, USA. University of Florida Taser incident
October 2007, Canada. Robert Dziekański Taser incident
November 2007, Halifax, Canada. Howard Hyde incident, police had jolted him with a Taser up to five times about 30 hours before he died.[40]
November 2007, Chilliwack, Canada. Robert Knipstrom, 36, died five days after an altercation with police.[41]
December 2007, Montreal, Canada. Death of Quilem Registre.[42]

In October and November 2007, four individuals died after being tasered in Canada, leading to calls for review of its use. The highest-profile of these cases was that of Robert Dziekański, a non-English speaking man from Poland who died in less than two minutes after being tasered by Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) at the Vancouver International Airport, October 14, 2007.[43][44] The tasering was captured on home video and was broadcast nationally.[45] This was followed by three further death-after-Tasering incidents in Montreal, Halifax, Nova Scotia, and Chilliwack, British Columbia, leading Amnesty International to demand Taser use end in Canada, as it had records of 16 other such deaths in the country.[46]

November 18, 2007, a 20-year-old man in Frederick, Maryland fell unconscious and died also right after being tasered.[35]

November 2007, USA. Christian Allen incident:[47]

On Sunday 18 November 2007 in Jacksonville, Florida, Christian Allen, 21, was pulled over by police because his car radio was too loud. After a struggle he and a passenger escaped on foot, an officer gave chase, caught Allen and tasered him at least three times. Allen died later in custody.[47]

On December 12, 2007, in response to the death of Robert Dziekański, Canadian Public Safety Minister Stockwell Day requested that the federal Commission for Public Complaints Against the RCMP (CPC) prepare recommendations for immediate implementation. The CPC report recommended to "immediately restrict the use of the conducted energy weapon (CEW)" by reclassifying it as an "impact weapon."[48] The commission released its report on 18 June 2008; recommendations include restricting use to experienced officers (5 years or more), providing medical attention to those who have been shocked, improving previous documentation of specific deployment of the weapon, among other things.[49][50][51]

2008

On January 12, 2008, Winnfield, Louisiana, Baron Pikes died after being shocked nine times with a Taser by a police officer. Pikes was handcuffed and six of the shocks were administered within less than three minutes.[52]
April 24, 2008, USA. Kevin Piskura died after being stunned by a X-26 Taser for 10 seconds while interfering with a friend's arrest by Police in Oxford, Ohio. He was hospitalized after the confrontation and died five days later. Video and audio of the event was recorded by the X-26's mounted camera.[53]
In June 2008, a federal jury ordered Taser International to pay the family of Robert Heston, Jr., $6 million in punitive and compensatory damages for the 2005 death of the man who died a day after being shocked repeatedly by officers using Tasers. According to a press report, the jury "found that Arizona-based stun-gun manufacturer Taser International should have more effectively warned police that Taser shocks were potentially dangerous."[54]
July 22, 2008, Winnipeg, Canada, a 17-year old aboriginal teen died after being tasered during a standoff. The teen was carrying a knife during the incident.[55]
July 29, 2008, Statesville, North Carolina, a man dies after being shocked multiple times while in police custody, arrested for shoplifting an Applebee's gift card.[56]
September 24, 2008, USA. Iman Morales Taser incident: On September 24, 2008 Iman Morales was tasered and died after falling 10 feet to the ground.[57]
Summit County, Ohio medical examiner Lisa J. Kohler cited Taser use as a cause of death in three cases, Mark D. McCullaugh, Dennis S. Hyde, and Richard Holcomb. Taser International sued, and on May 2, 2008, visiting judge Ted Schneiderman ordered the medical examiner to remove all references to "Taser" in the reports and change the cause of death in McCullaugh's case from "Homicide" to "Undetermined."[58]

2009

January 8, 2009, Martinsville, Virginia, a 17 year-old boy, Derick Jones, was fatally tasered by officer R.L. Wray of the Martinsville Police Department. The autopsy revealed that Jones was in good health with a healthy heart and no pre-existing conditions, as well as no drugs other than alcohol in his system. The medical examiner ruled that his death was the result of a random cardiac arrhythmia, with no direct cause. However, she explicitly ruled out all direct causes of this arrhythmia except for the Taser, which she stated could not be definitively ruled out “as a causative or contributive factor” in Jones’ death. Critics have pointed to cases like these to show how Taser's aggressive litigation history involving medical examiners may have affected their rulings, or prevented them from decisively citing a Taser as the cause of death, despite the fact that all other causes were definitively ruled out.[59]
April 16, 2009, Robert Mitchell, a 5'2" 110 lb 16-year-old with a learning disability, was tasered and died after fleeing a vehicle in which he was a passenger during a routine traffic stop.[60]

2010

May 21, 2010, Tybee Island, Georgia, an 18-year-old man with autism is injured after being tasered by police.[61]

July 2010, A stand-off in Rothbury between British police and armed fugitive Raoul Moat ended after two tasers were discharged, possibly causing Moat to pull the trigger to end his own life. An inquest is ongoing.

August 18, 2010, Dublin, California, Martin Harrison, a 50-year-old Oakland man being held in Santa Rita Jail, died after being shocked twice by a Taser during a fight with deputies. The fight occurred on Monday night, and he died in a hospital about 5 a.m. Wednesday.[62]

August 20, 2010, Washtenaw County, Michigan, Stanley Jackson Jr., a 31-year-old father of four from Belleville died hours after being tasered by Washtenaw County police. AnnArbor.com reports that Jackson, a former high school running back with no known medical problems, was shot by police at his mother’s Superior township home and died two hours after being admitted to St. Joseph Mercy Hospital.[63]

September 9, 2010 David Smith, 28 died after being tasered by police in Minneapolis, MN. Police officers tasered him after being called to a YMCA in downtown Minneapolis where David Smith was refusing to leave. David Smith went into cardiac arrest after being tasered and later died. He was unarmed when tasered.[64]

September 17, 2010 Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, Gary Lee Grossenbacher, 48, dies after being tasered by police, while resisting arrest following a domestic disturbance call. This follows an incident on July 6, 2010 in Oklahoma City, during which Damon Lamont Falls, 31, was tasered as he fled from an alleged robbery attempt, and subsequently died.[65]

October 5, 2010, Sydney, Australia, Un-identified man killed by a police taser. He lost consciousness shortly after he was tasered and was taken to Liverpool Hospital where he later died.[66]

November 30, 2010, Colombes, France, a 38-year-old illegal immigrant from Mali dies after having been tasered twice by police, who said the man threatened officers with a hammer. Tear gas and a baton were also used, and an inquiry was ordered to determine the exact cause of death.[67]

2011

May 6, 2011, Boynton Beach, Florida, a female police officer is treated for hearing loss after a fellow officer deliberately places and activates a taser behind her ear.[68]

June 6, 2011, Oakland Park, Florida, James Doe, 31 years old, 130 pounds, is tasered while handcuffed and locked in the back of a power cruiser; he was kicking the doors and windows. He becomes unresponsive, and is pronounced dead at Florida Medical Center.[69]

June 28, 2011, Northolt, United Kingdom, an 82-year-old was hospitalised for several days after his arrest.[70]

August 6, 2011, Cincinnati, Ohio, an 18-year-old attending summer classes at the University of Cincinnati was struck by a campus officer's stun gun and died of cardiac arrest.[71]

August 7, 2011, Manassas, Virginia, a 29-year-old being treated by paramedics is dead after police used a Taser on him.[72]

August 16, 2011, Barrow-in-Furness, Cumbria UK, Dale Burns, 27, became unwell shortly after police Tasered him at least three times. He was taken to hospital and was pronounced dead soon afterwards.[73]

August 23, 2011, Over Hulton, near Bolton, UK, Philip Hulmes, 53, dies in hospital after stabbing himself in the abdomen and subsequently getting tasered.[74]

Sept 13, 2011, Damon Barnett, in Fresno, California, died after being tasered on a highway.[75]

September 2011, Pinellas Park, Florida, Danielle Maudsley, 19, in a persistent vegetative state, after falling and hitting her head following being tasered. She was fleeing, handcuffed, and officer Daniel Cole tasered her from behind without warning, in lieu of physical contact. He was cleared of wrongdoing.[76]

October 31, 2011, Colonie, New York, Charles Brothers, 32, died after being tasered at a gym. He had damaged property and instigated fights with another man and the police prior to receiving multiple shocks.[77]

November 15, 2011 London, United Kingdom, Justice Livingstone survived being tasered 9 times, including 3 times in the back of the head. Livingstone had been reported for waving a gun around, he had bought a toy gun for his son. After his arrest Livingstone was sectioned under the mental health act.[78]

November 15, 2011, Tucson, Arizona, Officer Henry Fung of the Tucson Police Department, was tasered as a training exercise on November 14, but died of a heart attack the next day while visiting his mother. The Police Department has stated that doctors have advised that the taser was not a factor in his death.[79]

November 16, 2011, San Bernardino, California, Jonathan White, 29, died shortly after being tasered in his home. Under treatment for schizophrenia and bipolar disorder, his mother had called police for help in calming him down. White was resisting the officers, but not attacking them.[80]

November 22, 2011, Scotland Neck, North Carolina, Roger Anthony, 61, died a day after being tasered whilst cycling. Police had been called after the deaf man had fallen off his bicycle. The caller said Anthony appeared drunk, and may have hurt himself.[81]

2012

March 18, 2012, Honeymoon Island, Florida, James Clifton Barnes, 37, was struggling but in handcuffs when tasered by Kenneth Kubler, a marine deputy. He stopped breathing, and died a few days later.[82][83]
March 18, 2012, Sydney, Australia, Roberto Laudisio Curti, a 21-year-old Brazilian student suspected of stealing a package of biscuits from a convenience store, died during a pursuit by police. CCTV footage shows police forcing the unarmed victim to collide with a glass window and tasering him with his back turned to the officers. The coroner did later find that Curti was suffering acute effects of LSD use. Witnesses said the victim was tasered at least four times and also capsicum sprayed.[84][85]
April 8, 2012, Los Angeles, California, American pornographic actor Marlan A. Anderson (39 years old), better known as Sledge Hammer, was tasered twice in "Drive Stun" mode by Los Angeles Police Department during a struggle, went into cardiac arrest for at least 10 minutes, then slipped into a coma. He was taken off life support 5 days later and died.[86] Autopsy results have yet to determine a cause for death and is the incident is under internal review by the LAPD.[87]
June 4, 2012, Los Angeles, California, 50-year-old Studio City resident Angela Jones was tasered three times by California Highway Patrol. She went into cardiac arrest and was revived after CPR was performed by a CHP officer at the scene.[88]

2013

March 18, 2013, Man dies after police use Taser in Greater Manchester.[89]
August 6, 2013, Miami, Florida, Israel Hernandez, 18 years old, died after being shocked with a taser in the chest after Miami Beach police spotted him painting graffiti on an empty building.[90] It was later confirmed that the cause of death was sudden cardiac death produced by the shock from the taser.[91]
October 24, 2013, Edmonton, Alberta, Unidentified, 39-year-old man, died after being shocked with a taser by the Edmonton Police Service.[92]

2014

September 14, 2014, Kansas City, Missouri, Bryce Masters' heart stopped after the probes from the stun gun struck him in close proximity to his heart. He was placed into a medically-induced coma and treated for lack of oxygen to the brain.[93]
November 6, 2014, Argoed, South Wales, Matthew Williams, 34, suspected of murdering a woman and allegedly caught in a hotel room eating her face, was tasered and arrested. Moments later he became unresponsive and died.[94]
December 22, 2014, Newcastle-under-Lyme, a suspected burglar died after being Tasered by Police in Staffordshire, UK.[95]

2015

February 3, 2015, Fairfax County jail, Virginia, Natasha McKenna, 37, stopped breathing, her heart stopped, then later died, after a stun gun was used four times on her while restrained with handcuffs and leg shackles.[96]

Analysis

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Given that the taser didn't work only one barb hit. It's not the barbs that cause the pain.

And they don't seem to kill healthy people--many thousands of cops undergo it in training, nobody dies.

Well, at least you aren't claiming it didn't work because of the kid's heavy jacket. So either you actually watched a video (doubtful) or someone clued you in that people were telling the truth and the kid was dressed in a t shirt and khaki shorts.

But given how fond you are of making claims based on your own impressions and not on fact at all, please forgive me for actually investigating your claims.

Actually, tasers have killed apparently healthy people (see below). Also please note the use of 'apparently' as it is frankly not possible to know if someone has an underlying heart condition or other medical issue that would put them at increased risk for serious injury or death due to being hit with a taser. But some deaths have resulted where the victim had no underlying medical cause identified during autopsy.

Autopsy can't identify everything. Failing to find a reason doesn't prove there isn't one.

Note the pattern--people who got a lot of shocks. That usually means someone highly non-compliant--think maybe there's a reason for that?

Tell us again how tasers cause pain? And does being hit by a single barb such that it penetrates skin cause pain even without an electrical current? Because I'm willing to bet that if someone were to hit you with a taser it would hurt, even if only one barb penetrated your skin.

I'm not saying no pain, I'm saying not a lot of pain. The main pain comes from the electricity.

 

[Toni]

Well, at least you aren't claiming it didn't work because of the kid's heavy jacket. So either you actually watched a video (doubtful) or someone clued you in that people were telling the truth and the kid was dressed in a t shirt and khaki shorts.

But given how fond you are of making claims based on your own impressions and not on fact at all, please forgive me for actually investigating your claims.

Actually, tasers have killed apparently healthy people (see below). Also please note the use of 'apparently' as it is frankly not possible to know if someone has an underlying heart condition or other medical issue that would put them at increased risk for serious injury or death due to being hit with a taser. But some deaths have resulted where the victim had no underlying medical cause identified during autopsy.

Autopsy can't identify everything. Failing to find a reason doesn't prove there isn't one.

Note the pattern--people who got a lot of shocks. That usually means someone highly non-compliant--think maybe there's a reason for that?

Tell us again how tasers cause pain? And does being hit by a single barb such that it penetrates skin cause pain even without an electrical current? Because I'm willing to bet that if someone were to hit you with a taser it would hurt, even if only one barb penetrated your skin.

I'm not saying no pain, I'm saying not a lot of pain. The main pain comes from the electricity.

Loren, the pattern is that the manufacturer of tasers is extremely litigenous and is well known for its strong efforts to suggest that tasers can cause death. Which they can and do. In healthy adults.

But nice you are willing to admit that sinking a single barb would cause pain. The fact is that you have no idea how much pain.

What is notable about any autopsy reports I can find is the failure to mention ANY marks on hands which would indicate that this dead boy hit anyone. Almost like there were no such signs at all.