Teen shot 7 times and killed by police officer - ruled "justified" of course

[Derec]

Are you suggesting that the media is creating the false impression that African-Americans are more likely to be mistreated by the police, when in fact it is all us poor, oppressed white people who are being mistreated by police more than African-Americans?

I am suggesting that neither are being "mistreated" by police but that yes, the media is feeding a false and damaging racial narrative here. White on black crime gets a lot of attention, black on white crime not so much with the result that there is a skewed perception among people.

Oh, that sinister, sinister liberal media conspiracy! They create a false impression in the public through lies and selective reporting!

You meant is sarcastically, but you pretty much hit the nail on the head despite yourself.

On a more serious note, your implication is categorically insane. Black male teens are twenty one times more likely to be killed by police.

Even if that number is correct, you have to ask yourself why that is so. Racism by police or criminal behavior of black teens vs. white teens. The thing is that the discrepancy is much lower when you consider entire population, not just teens:

That is only about a 3x blacks killed by police than whites. Note that blacks are 5x as likely as blacks to commit homicide so if anything police shoot fewer blacks than one would expect.

The statistics are precisely the opposite of what you suggest, not that you would ever let facts get in the way of your persecution complex.

Actually the statistics back up my position, not yours. My position being that people get shot by police due to their behavior, not race, and numbers bear that out.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

If I were a cop, I would have handled the situation differently in several ways:
(1) I would have never pulled the kid over in the first place.
(2) If I saw him calling someone, I'd ask who he is calling. Maybe he was calling his parents, 911, or his lawyer.
(3) I would have tried to de-escalate the situation by being calm and even joking around with him.
(4) I'd tell him he is probably just getting a ticket (but I would not have pulled him over to begin with).
(5) I wouldn't have ripped his cell phone away from him and thrown it.
(6) I would not have tased him since he was lying on the ground (I think according to the video).
(7) I cannot really comment on the last part, the shooting, because I cannot observe it. It is difficult to say if running would be an option.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

I dunno. The CNN clip you posted made clear that flashing high beams in Michigan at 500 feet is illegal. Presumably this is so you don't blind oncoming traffic. But it seems not many people (myself included) know this is a traffic violation. Ergo, the stop was legal. From there, the teenager was not cooperative. He did not have his driver's license - another offense. Then the last frame of the body cam shows the teenager get up and swing his arms at the officer. Heh, tragic this was. The cop may very well be an asshole. Yet, the teenager is dead because he acted stupid.

Ideology usually points to single causes of events. In reality, life is very complicated and there are many factors which lead up to a thing happening.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Just want to add one more thing. I have a teenaged son. He will turn 18 in less than a month. Throughout his sarcastic, angsty, and rebellious moments he had over the years of his being a teenager, I eventually got compliance from him every time. Eventually. Sometimes it took a lot of effort, but I never had to resort to a taser or making him lie on the ground. I had to take his cell phone away as a consequence for some of his actions but I never kicked it. Maybe we should have a parent hotline for police so that when they're dealing with normal teenagers they can figure out how to get them to listen. You know, ...without shooting them.

 

[Derec]

Isn't your alleged objection to BLM that All Lives Matter but when you're given a thread about a White kid getting shot by the police you're still bringing up BLM and protecting the police?

My point is that #BLM is very selective by race (as their very name suggests) not that all police shootings are unjustified. My other problem with #BLM is precisely that they are not very selective in their choice of causes.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Isn't your alleged objection to BLM that All Lives Matter but when you're given a thread about a White kid getting shot by the police you're still bringing up BLM and protecting the police?

My point is that #BLM is very selective by race (as their very name suggests) not that all police shootings are unjustified. My other problem with #BLM is precisely that they are not very selective in their choice of causes.

So people should never be selective? Does that mean you are going to start supporting equality for blacks, whites, males, and females? Also, I guess you're already selective with the police since you are always supporting them.

 

[Derec]

So people should never be selective?

Of course they should be selective - but by the right criteria - not by race which should not matter, but by behavior of the person shot by police. Michael Brown, for example, ignited the #BLM movement because of his race even though his behavior, not his race, caused him getting shot and killed.

Does that mean you are going to start supporting equality for blacks, whites, males, and females?

I already do.

Also, I guess you're already selective with the police since you are always supporting them.

I do not. In this case though I see the shooting as justified because of Deven's behavior.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Because he did plenty wrong.

To get himself killed? He allegedly flashed his high beams. This then led to a series of events in which he is now dead. Almost nothing he did warranted dying. The fact that he assaulted the officer after being partially tasered could be considered a fight or flight instinct. The Officer Cartman fucked up in their entire handling of the situation and now the teen is dead.

Tasering a non-aggressive person is really really stupid.

 

[laughing dog]

Because he did plenty wrong.

To get himself killed? He allegedly flashed his high beams. This then led to a series of events in which he is now dead. Almost nothing he did warranted dying. The fact that he assaulted the officer after being partially tasered could be considered a fight or flight instinct. The Officer Cartman fucked up in their entire handling of the situation and now the teen is dead.

Tasering a non-aggressive person is really really stupid.

The officer was never in mortal danger, so the shooting is unjustified. That police officer should not be on the force if he cannot handle such a situation without killing a civilian.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

To get himself killed? He allegedly flashed his high beams. This then led to a series of events in which he is now dead. Almost nothing he did warranted dying. The fact that he assaulted the officer after being partially tasered could be considered a fight or flight instinct. The Officer Cartman fucked up in their entire handling of the situation and now the teen is dead.

Tasering a non-aggressive person is really really stupid.

The officer was never in mortal danger, so the shooting is unjustified. That police officer should not be on the force if he cannot handle such a situation without killing a civilian.

I don't even think the killing demonstrates his issue. The fact that he tasered the guy:
1) while standing so close to possibly incapacitate himself
2) a non-aggressive person which can lead the person to become aggressive in a rather non-intentional way, ie fight or flight

...is reason enough to get him off the street.

 

[TSwizzle]

Another tragic incident because somebody wants to be a smart ass with the cops.

 

[Herrick]

The kid was a total fucking idiot but I don't understand how this cop couldn't take him down without killing him. The kid didn't seem that big. If a cop can't restrain a 17-year-old kid, then they should always have another cop with them.

 

[abaddon]

Another tragic incident because somebody wants to be a smart ass with the cops.

There's nothing wrong with being a smart ass with the cops. The officer should have waited in his car. It’s "another tragic incident" because he expected fairness and justice from an armed belligerent maniac who didn’t share the same values.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Another tragic incident because somebody wants to be a smart ass with the cops.

Tragic? It is incompetence.

 

[TSwizzle]

Another tragic incident because somebody wants to be a smart ass with the cops.

There's nothing wrong with being a smart ass with the cops.

I disagree. My interactions with cops I have always been courteous and the cops have always reciprocated in kind.

 

[Malintent]

I did not see this stated in this thread, but you can clearly hear the teen state to the cop, while still in his car, that he flashed his highbeems at the oncoming police officer because the police officer was driving with his headlights off, and he did not know he was a cop but either way was simply trying to help him out, for his own safety and the safety of others. He explicitly states, "I was trying to help you. You might have gotten someone hurt".. or something very close to that.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

:mod:

 

[TSwizzle]

Another tragic incident because somebody wants to be a smart ass with the cops.

Tragic? It is incompetence.

That too.

 

[bilby]

Again, Deven refused to follow lawful commands.

Refusing to follow lawful commands is an offense, if you are serving in the military. If you are serving in a combat zone, this offense might be punishable by summary execution.

For civilian citizens of a free country, failing to obey commands is not an offense. It is a right.

Given that you seem happy living under martial law, where every citizen is treated as the lowest rank of the military, I shall not presume to suggest that your country needs to change. But I will request that you drop the flimsy and pathetic claim you make to being 'The land of the free', because it is quite obvious that you are not even a land of the free.

 

[dismal]

For civilian citizens of a free country, failing to obey commands is not an offense. It is a right.

Nope, sorry. You have no right to disobey a lawful order from a police officer.