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TERROR TERROR: come here come all

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Ok, I decided to help branch out the terrorism discussion out of the thread I started about US homicide.

https://theconversation.com/looking-at-terror-attacks-per-capita-should-make-us-rethink-beliefs-about-levels-of-risk-and-muslims-78449

Approximately 23% of the world population identifies as Muslim. But, since September 11, Islamist groups have conducted about 20% of terrorist attacks worldwide. Thus, terrorist attacks are – historically and today – less likely to be conducted by a Muslim than by a non-Muslim group.


That claim is BS.

What is BS is the silly claim that Muslims commit only 20% of terrorism. The site bilby's article cites for backup does not back it up at all.
There is a lot of Muslim apologetics on the Left and you jave fallen for it hook, line and sinker.
You have not bothered to document any of your claims. That is now 3 BS claims in a row you have posted.
When you first document the silly 20% claim.

The real bitch for Deric, is that the link he provided sources the same Maryland University Global Terrorism DB. Now I couldn’t find the article within the GTD, but it was obvious when looking at the site, that this would be coming from their 45 years of compiling the data.

If one follows the linky within the article, it is the same place:
Approximately 23% of the world population identifies as Muslim. But, since September 11, Islamist groups have conducted about 20% of terrorist attacks worldwide.

And 45 years of terrorism looks like this with hot spots in the UK (IRA) and Spain/France (ETA), Sri Lanka, Central America, Colombia, and Peru:

START_GlobalTerrorismDatabase_TerroristAttacksConcentrationIntensityMap_45Yearssmall-tiny.jpg
 

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Ok, I decided to help branch out the terrorism discussion out of the thread I started about US homicide.



That claim is BS.

What is BS is the silly claim that Muslims commit only 20% of terrorism. The site bilby's article cites for backup does not back it up at all.
There is a lot of Muslim apologetics on the Left and you jave fallen for it hook, line and sinker.
You have not bothered to document any of your claims. That is now 3 BS claims in a row you have posted.
When you first document the silly 20% claim.

The real bitch for Deric, is that the link he provided sources the same Maryland University Global Terrorism DB. Now I couldn’t find the article within the GTD, but it was obvious when looking at the site, that this would be coming from their 45 years of compiling the data.

If one follows the linky within the article, it is the same place:
Approximately 23% of the world population identifies as Muslim. But, since September 11, Islamist groups have conducted about 20% of terrorist attacks worldwide.

And 45 years of terrorism looks like this with hot spots in the UK (IRA) and Spain/France (ETA), Sri Lanka, Central America, Colombia, and Peru:

View attachment 11343

Obviously the Aussies are in cahoots with Russia. Not much going on in either place.
 
I still want to know what they are counting as "terrorism".

When you count the low-grade stuff it's much less Islamist than if you only count deaths.
 
You mean like Farc, the IRA, Okalhoma city, the Sandinistas, etc?
 
Fortunately for us the most competent person ever, our own beloved Saint Hillary, put together a trove of terrorist attack data which can be accessed for free here:

https://www.state.gov/j/ct/rls/crt/2014/239416.htm

Although she did not highlight the religions of the attackers, since many of them are of course not *true* [insert religion here], the following tidbit may give us a bit of a guide:

Although terrorist attacks took place in 95 countries in 2014, they were heavily concentrated geographically. More than 60% of all attacks took place in five countries (Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan, India, and Nigeria), and 78% of all fatalities due to terrorist attacks took place in five countries (Iraq, Nigeria, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria).
 
You mean like Farc, the IRA, Okalhoma city, the Sandinistas, etc?
Yes, these all count. And the hot areas on that 2015 terrorism heat map are due to non-Muslim groups like FARC. Muslims are still terrorism champions by a large margin, despite widespread efforts at Islam apologetics.

Note also that OK City was 22 years ago. Large scale non-Muslim terrorism on US soil is a very rare occurrence indeed.

- - - Updated - - -

Fortunately for us the most competent person ever, our own beloved Saint Hillary, put together a trove of terrorist attack data which can be accessed for free here:

https://www.state.gov/j/ct/rls/crt/2014/239416.htm

Although she did not highlight the religions of the attackers, since many of them are of course not *true* [insert religion here], the following tidbit may give us a bit of a guide:

Although terrorist attacks took place in 95 countries in 2014, they were heavily concentrated geographically. More than 60% of all attacks took place in five countries (Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan, India, and Nigeria), and 78% of all fatalities due to terrorist attacks took place in five countries (Iraq, Nigeria, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria).

And yet somehow only 20% of terrorist attacks are perpetrated by Muslims. Yeah, right.
 
Yes, these all count. And the hot areas on that 2015 terrorism heat map are due to non-Muslim groups like FARC. Muslims are still terrorism champions by a large margin, despite widespread efforts at Islam apologetics.

Note also that OK City was 22 years ago. Large scale non-Muslim terrorism on US soil is a very rare occurrence indeed.

Please notice the key 1970-2015. This would include the Bangladesh genocide and war for independence. Are mass shootings considered large-scale? If not, the only large scale attack was 9-11. So yes large scale attacks on US Soil are very rare.

And yet somehow only 20% of terrorist attacks are perpetrated by Muslims. Yeah, right.
And they make up 24.1% of the global population.
 
Please notice the key 1970-2015. This would include the Bangladesh genocide and war for independence. Are mass shootings considered large-scale? If not, the only large scale attack was 9-11. So yes large scale attacks on US Soil are very rare.

And yet somehow only 20% of terrorist attacks are perpetrated by Muslims. Yeah, right.
And they make up 24.1% of the global population.

B-b-b-but they make up 90-something percent of the nightmares endured by alt-right morons.
 
True, the reaction to the Paris hammer attack was nice. I like that someone can tell that since the attacker got an award ten years ago he is obviously not mentally ill. Obviously he was quite the mastermind terrorist bringing a hammer and kitchen utensils to a gunfight.
 
True, the reaction to the Paris hammer attack was nice. I like that someone can tell that since the attacker got an award ten years ago he is obviously not mentally ill. Obviously he was quite the mastermind terrorist bringing a hammer and kitchen utensils to a gunfight.

Maybe he watched too many MacGyver re-runs...
 
Please notice the key 1970-2015. This would include the Bangladesh genocide and war for independence. Are mass shootings considered large-scale? If not, the only large scale attack was 9-11. So yes large scale attacks on US Soil are very rare.

And yet somehow only 20% of terrorist attacks are perpetrated by Muslims. Yeah, right.
And they make up 24.1% of the global population.

They make up about 2-3% of the population in Western Europe and North America.

So presumably the next time someone sets off a bomb at a crowded concert or sporting event random chance would suggest it's got a 1-in-40 or so chance to be a muslim.

Do you care to make a bet on those odds?

For all bomb attacks on crowds in the US, Canada and Western Europe:

- If the bomber is not a Muslim I give you $100.
- If the bomber is a Muslim you give me $4000.

Seems fair. Even in your favor since the point of this thread is Muslims are even less likely than average to be terrorists.
 
Please notice the key 1970-2015. This would include the Bangladesh genocide and war for independence. Are mass shootings considered large-scale? If not, the only large scale attack was 9-11. So yes large scale attacks on US Soil are very rare.


And they make up 24.1% of the global population.

They make up about 2-3% of the population in Western Europe and North America.

...

Seems fair. Even in your favor since the point of this thread is Muslims are even less likely than average to be terrorists.
You do know the meaning of the word "global"?
 
They make up about 2-3% of the population in Western Europe and North America.

...

Seems fair. Even in your favor since the point of this thread is Muslims are even less likely than average to be terrorists.
You do know the meaning of the word "global"?

What's your point?

Muslims are more likely than an average person to commit terrorist acts in the West?
 
You do know the meaning of the word "global"?

What's your point?

Muslims are more likely than an average person to commit terrorist acts in the West?

My points have already been made and address the global graphic in the OP. If you do not understand, please have a trusted friend explain it to you.
 
What's your point?

Muslims are more likely than an average person to commit terrorist acts in the West?

My points have already been made and address the global graphic in the OP. If you do not understand, please have a trusted friend explain it to you.

Your points may be quite valid to someone living 45 years ago in Bangladesh.

But I believe relatively few people here today are living 45 years ago in Bangladesh.
 
My points have already been made and address the global graphic in the OP. If you do not understand, please have a trusted friend explain it to you.

Your points may be quite valid to someone living 45 years ago in Bangladesh.

But I believe relatively few people here today are living 45 years ago in Bangladesh.

Good for you.
 
Please notice the key 1970-2015. This would include the Bangladesh genocide and war for independence. Are mass shootings considered large-scale? If not, the only large scale attack was 9-11. So yes large scale attacks on US Soil are very rare.


And they make up 24.1% of the global population.

They make up about 2-3% of the population in Western Europe and North America.

So presumably the next time someone sets off a bomb at a crowded concert or sporting event random chance would suggest it's got a 1-in-40 or so chance to be a muslim.

Do you care to make a bet on those odds?

For all bomb attacks on crowds in the US, Canada and Western Europe:

- If the bomber is not a Muslim I give you $100.
- If the bomber is a Muslim you give me $4000.

Seems fair. Even in your favor since the point of this thread is Muslims are even less likely than average to be terrorists.

I am certain that that is not a fair structuring of the betting game given that you've not taken into consideration other factors. We already know that in our modern time terrorism is used as a catch-all phrase for radical Islamic terrorism and has tended to exclude other types of mass shooting and murders committed, this despite the fact that FBI has long divided terrorism into two categories: domestic and international. Domestic terrorism is defined as “the unlawful use, or threatened use, of violence by a group or individual based and operating entirely within the United States (or its territories) without foreign direction committed against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives.” International terrorism is defined as “violent acts or acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or any state, or that would be a criminal violation if committed within the jurisdiction of the United States or any state. Acts are intended to intimidate or coerce a civilian population, influence the policy of a government, or affect the conduct of a government. These acts transcend national boundaries in terms of the means by which they are accomplished, the persons they appear intended to intimidate, or the locale in which perpetrators operate.” So, for example, despite this model and definition of terrorism, 2012 Aurora mass shooting is not classified as domestic terrorism nor is 2016 Charleston Church massacre. However, ask the people in the theater or church how they felt when bullets started flying; the survivors will tell you they did feel terrorized. Please understand that the definition of terrorism has been politicized; that is why in the media words like "mass murderer" are used and not terrorism even when the violent or threatened act of violence fits the FBI's textbook definition of domestic terrorism under the broader bracket and umbrella of "terrorism."

Therefore, while it is true that Muslims are less likely than on average to be terrorists, it is highly unlikely to be the case that you cannot surmise correctly the perpetrator's religion from news coverage when the media starts using the term "terrorism."

Furthermore, CNN in 2014 published an article which estimated that "on the low end, an estimated 85,000 men are fighting in jihadist groups around the world; on the high end, 106,000." Pew Research Study published in 2017 an article which places the number of Muslims worldwide in the year 2010 to have been an estimate of 1.6 billion. So doing some basic arithmetic, we get that about 0.006625% of the Muslim population are jihadists.

Additionally, the single biggest predictor in our time at least of when any person is going to become a terrorist or is about to commit a terrorist action is not religion but instead a person's content on social media pages and participation, whether that is FB, MySpace, Instagram, Twitter, forums, etc. Most people, at least of the Millennial or Gen Z generation, inhabit the space of social media as if it is the real world, and they imbibe social media participation as part of their identity and lifeblood. Therefore, social media is likely to give more information about a person's thinking patterns indicative of any problems ranging from alienation or wanting to vent grievance to endorsement of violence and contemplation of violence than picking out any single person based on orientation in any religion, race, or culture.

Moreover, extremists are generally a vocal peoples; they want to be heard and they will likely have been using some avenue to vent their extremism or trying to find like-minded people whether that is out on the Internet or real life. They only seem "invisible" to the average person right before their moment of extreme and heightened visibility on news media because we've been not been paying attention to the signs and have not been taking them literally at their word. Let me give you an example: If a person says, "I think abortion is wrong," though of course we cannot know for 100% sure, we'd still have to say he is unlikely to be a person who's going to be willing or wanting to shoot up an abortion clinic because those words are not indicative of wanting to do harm to anyone. However, a person saying, "Those murderers who have been killing babies deserve to be shot" is an indicative of an extremist mentality. And a person saying, "I hate abortion clinics and shooting the murderers is a noble service I'm willing to do" is instructive of how this person is no longer just content to sit around but is now in contemplation stage of committing domestic terrorism.

Peace.
 
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They make up about 2-3% of the population in Western Europe and North America.

So presumably the next time someone sets off a bomb at a crowded concert or sporting event random chance would suggest it's got a 1-in-40 or so chance to be a muslim.

Do you care to make a bet on those odds?

For all bomb attacks on crowds in the US, Canada and Western Europe:

- If the bomber is not a Muslim I give you $100.
- If the bomber is a Muslim you give me $4000.

Seems fair. Even in your favor since the point of this thread is Muslims are even less likely than average to be terrorists.

I am certain that that is not a fair structuring of the betting game given that you've not taken into consideration other factors. We already know that in our modern time terrorism is used as a catch-all phrase for radical Islamic terrorism and has tended to exclude other types of mass shooting and murders committed, this despite the fact that FBI has long divided terrorism into two categories: domestic and international. Domestic terrorism is defined as “the unlawful use, or threatened use, of violence by a group or individual based and operating entirely within the United States (or its territories) without foreign direction committed against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives.” International terrorism is defined as “violent acts or acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or any state, or that would be a criminal violation if committed within the jurisdiction of the United States or any state. Acts are intended to intimidate or coerce a civilian population, influence the policy of a government, or affect the conduct of a government. These acts transcend national boundaries in terms of the means by which they are accomplished, the persons they appear intended to intimidate, or the locale in which perpetrators operate.” So, for example, despite this model and definition of terrorism, 2012 Aurora mass shooting is not classified as domestic terrorism nor is 2016 Charleston Church massacre. However, ask the people in the theater or church how they felt when bullets started flying; the survivors will tell you they did feel terrorized. Please understand that the definition of terrorism has been politicized; that is why in the media words like "mass murderer" are used and not terrorism even when the violent or threatened act of violence fits the FBI's textbook definition of domestic terrorism under the broader bracket and umbrella of "terrorism."

Therefore, while it is true that Muslims are less likely than on average to be terrorists, it is highly unlikely to be the case that you cannot surmise correctly the perpetrator's religion from news coverage when the media starts using the term "terrorism."

Furthermore, CNN in 2014 published an article which estimated that "on the low end, an estimated 85,000 men are fighting in jihadist groups around the world; on the high end, 106,000." Pew Research Study published in 2017 an article which places the number of Muslims worldwide in the year 2010 to have been an estimate of 1.6 billion. So doing some basic arithmetic, we get that about 0.006625% of the Muslim population are jihadists.

Additionally, the single biggest predictor in our time at least of when any person is going to become a terrorist or is about to commit a terrorist action is not religion but instead a person's content on social media pages and participation, whether that is FB, MySpace, Instagram, Twitter, forums, etc. Most people, at least of the Millennial or Gen Z generation, inhabit the space of social media as if it is the real world, and they imbibe social media participation as part of their identity and lifeblood. Therefore, social media is likely to give more information about a person's thinking patterns indicative of any problems ranging alienation or wanting to vent grievance to endorsement of violence and contemplation of violence than picking out any single person based on orientation in any religion, race, or culture.

Moreover, extremists are generally a vocal peoples; they want to be heard and they will likely have been using some avenue to vent their extremism or trying to find like-minded people whether that is out on the Internet or real life. They only seem "invisible" to the average person right before their moment of extreme and heightened visibility on news media because we've been not been paying attention to the signs and have not been taking them literally at their word. Let me give you an example: If a person says, "I think abortion is wrong," though of course we cannot know for 100% sure, we'd still have to say he is unlikely to be a person who's going to be willing or wanting to shoot up an abortion clinic because those words are not indicative of wanting to do harm to anyone. However, a person saying, "Those murderers who have been killing babies deserve to be shot" is an indicative of an extremist mentality. And a person saying, "I hate abortion clinics and shooting the murderers is a noble service I'm willing to do" is instructive of how this person is no longer just content to sit around but is now in contemplation stage of committing domestic terrorism.

Peace.

I structured the bet to avoid semantic quibbling over the definition of "terrorism".

The only debate would be over whether something was "a bomb" and whether it was in "a crowd".
 
I structured the bet to avoid semantic quibbling over the definition of "terrorism".

The only debate would be over whether something was "a bomb" and whether it was in "a crowd".

I believe you likely know already that you'd win that bet and not because you are right but because you've cleverly sanitized both the definition of terrorism and weaponry in your favor; yet the bet will not tell you or anyone else anything of value to take as lessons into the future of how to either stop or predict terrorism.

Peace.
 
I structured the bet to avoid semantic quibbling over the definition of "terrorism".

The only debate would be over whether something was "a bomb" and whether it was in "a crowd".

I believe you likely know already that you'd win that bet and not because you are right but because you've cleverly sanitized both the definition of terrorism and weaponry in your favor; yet the bet will not tell you or anyone else anything of value to take as lessons into the future of how to either stop or predict terrorism.

Peace.

I didn't even attempt to define terrorism. I actively avoided it.

Only someone who thinks Muslims are more likely to set off bombs in crowds than an average person would expect me to make money on the bet.
 
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