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The Bible

Please provide 1 instance where the Bible got it wrong. And provide the evidence that it is wrong.
Exodus 20:12 - Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
except when that honor is fatal.
take for instance an abused child
really is it better to stick around when death is possible just for the sake of honoring a bible verse and principle?
Like someone made up the WoW universe and its backstories.

What is Wow?
World of Jesus II
 
Please provide 1 instance where the Bible got it wrong. And provide the evidence that it is wrong.

Plenty of instances have already been provided to you over the last couple of days.

Why would I bother? You have made it clear that you refuse to see what is in front of your eyes, and I seriously doubt that I can make you change that pattern of behaviour.
 
You're going to have to justify that belief; since it obviously is.

You believe in the bible > Why do you believe in the bible? > Because of what the bible says -> Therefore? > Therefore you believe in the bible > Why do you believe in the bible though? > Because of what the bible says > etc etc.


and secondly I wasn't using it as an argument for the validity of the Bible. Consider this.

That link does nothing to disprove the fact that it's circular; it simply makes a circular argument, then asserts its not circular. It provides no reasoning for its assertion; and tries to deflect from this setting up a strawman argument, pretending that the reason we think of the argument as circular is because the sentence "you can't prove the bible using the bible" uses the word 'bible' twice. :rolleyes:

What you seem to fail to appreciate is that the Bible isn't just a book that validates itself, it is a collection of books by over 40 different authors over a period of hundreds of years. In that massive body of work if there is a point you glean from it that point must be confirmed by another. At least one other. If, on the other hand, two passages contradict one another you have a problem. Either you have misinterpreted it or have discovered an anomaly.

Typically, the skeptic will say something to the effect that an event hasn't taken place due to it not having been discovered in some field of science or history, for example, the Census Of Quirinius

Skeptics of the Bible often question the dating of accurate Bible chronology regarding Jesus' birth based upon the incorrect notion that there was only one census taken while Publius Sulpicius was governor of Syria, at about 6 C.E.. The one that sparked a rebellion by Judas the Galilean and the Zealots. (Acts 5:37) That was the second, actually. Inscriptions found at and near Antioch reveals that some years earlier Quirinius served as the emperor's legate in Syria. As the Dictionnaire du Nouveau Testament in Crampon's French Bible (1939 ed., page 360) says: "The scholarly researches of Zumpt (Commentat. epigraph., II, 86-104; De Syria romana provincia, 97-98) and of Mommsen (Res gestae divi Augusti) place beyond doubt that Quirinius was twice governor of Syria."

In 1764 an inscription called the Lapis Tiburtinus was found which concurs.

Science is different in that it changes according to new knowledge accumulated. That, of course, is a good thing, but from a theological perspective you can't expect a person who believes in the God of the Bible, who was there during the flood and who created everything to assume that the scientific process negates the super intelligent being that brought it all about and was there.

Mankind's search for knowledge, whether theological or scientific, is imperfect and you can't deny that the monopoly on knowledge tends to lean towards a xenophobic desire to crush the competition.

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Please provide 1 instance where the Bible got it wrong. And provide the evidence that it is wrong.

Plenty of instances have already been provided to you over the last couple of days.

Why would I bother? You have made it clear that you refuse to see what is in front of your eyes, and I seriously doubt that I can make you change that pattern of behaviour.

Always the same excuse.
 
Exodus 20:12 - Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
except when that honor is fatal.
take for instance an abused child
really is it better to stick around when death is possible just for the sake of honoring a bible verse and principle?

No. Do you think that is what is expected?
 
I'm going to consider this thread to have run it's course and pay no more attention to it unless anyone has a post in it that I unknowingly haven't addressed.
 
Please provide 1 instance where the Bible got it wrong. And provide the evidence that it is wrong.

Joshua 10:12-13. Joshua sees the small bright sun stop orbiting the large, stationary Earth for a while. (See also Isaiah 20:11, I Chronicles 16:30, Job 9:7, Isaiah 38:8, Joel 2:10, Joel 2:31, Amos 8:9, Habakkuk 3:11, Acts 2:20, Revelation 6:12-14 for other markers of Geocentrism.)

Of course, Geocentrism has been sufficiently disproven.
 
Typically, the skeptic will say something to the effect that an event hasn't taken place due to it not having been discovered in some field of science or history, for example, the Census Of Quirinius

Skeptics of the Bible often question the dating of accurate Bible chronology regarding Jesus' birth based upon the incorrect notion that there was only one census taken while Publius Sulpicius was governor of Syria, at about 6 C.E.. The one that sparked a rebellion by Judas the Galilean and the Zealots. (Acts 5:37) That was the second, actually. Inscriptions found at and near Antioch reveals that some years earlier Quirinius served as the emperor's legate in Syria. As the Dictionnaire du Nouveau Testament in Crampon's French Bible (1939 ed., page 360) says: "The scholarly researches of Zumpt (Commentat. epigraph., II, 86-104; De Syria romana provincia, 97-98) and of Mommsen (Res gestae divi Augusti) place beyond doubt that Quirinius was twice governor of Syria."

In 1764 an inscription called the Lapis Tiburtinus was found which concurs.

The historian Richard Carrier has sufficiently debunked this claim.

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I'm going to consider this thread to have run it's course and pay no more attention to it unless anyone has a post in it that I unknowingly haven't addressed.

So no independent support that Jehovah God created Michael and Jehovah through Michael created the heavens?
 
I'm going to consider this thread to have run it's course and pay no more attention to it unless anyone has a post in it that I unknowingly haven't addressed.

it plays with itself///
 
You mean you want scriptural support?

No. Since your scripture is the source of your claim, we need something else to verify it. Something that would confirm the truth of your claim even by someone who has not read your scripture.

When Galileo wrote down that the moon was pocked with craters, others did not confirm that by reading what Galileo wrote down. Even if Galileo wrote down that claim in two different books, that wouldn't verify the original claim. Something else--something independent--was needed.

Otherwise it would have been just an unverifiable claim.

Then it's an unverifiable claim. But you knew that, didn't you.
 
Exodus 20:12 - Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
except when that honor is fatal.
take for instance an abused child
really is it better to stick around when death is possible just for the sake of honoring a bible verse and principle?

No. Do you think that is what is expected?
Is it an error? I'm forgoing the apologetics, what do you think it says... if you were going to write it?
 
The historian Richard Carrier has sufficiently debunked this claim.

Could you excerpt the relevant portion here so I don't have to read the entire manuscript?

So no independent support that Jehovah God created Michael and Jehovah through Michael created the heavens?

Nope. Who's going to support it, Michael? There was Jehovah and there was Michael. Jehovah said it was true and Michael said it was true. Do you think that Richard Carrier could support it? Do you think that I give a fuck if he had? You get that?
 
No. Do you think that is what is expected?
Is it an error?

Do you realize how ridiculous your reasoning is? You seem to be saying that we shouldn't honor our parents because there are abusive parents out there or that the Bible said it was the thing to do. Have you asked yourself what might be clouding your judgment on that?

Colossians 3:21 You fathers, do not be exasperating your children, so that they do not become downhearted.
 
Please provide 1 instance where the Bible got it wrong. And provide the evidence that it is wrong.

Joshua 10:12-13. Joshua sees the small bright sun stop orbiting the large, stationary Earth for a while. (See also Isaiah 20:11, I Chronicles 16:30, Job 9:7, Isaiah 38:8, Joel 2:10, Joel 2:31, Amos 8:9, Habakkuk 3:11, Acts 2:20, Revelation 6:12-14 for other markers of Geocentrism.)

Of course, Geocentrism has been sufficiently disproven.

You think that those scriptures or any other support Geocentrism just because Thomas Aquinas and the Church did during the time of Galileo?

I would like for you to go through each one of them and explain why you think that.
 
Is it an error?

Do you realize how ridiculous your reasoning is? You seem to be saying that we shouldn't honor our parents because there are abusive parents out there or that the Bible said it was the thing to do. Have you asked yourself what might be clouding your judgment on that?

Colossians 3:21 You fathers, do not be exasperating your children, so that they do not become downhearted.
Ha, seriously the verse said honor so you can live a long time, didn't account for a parents conduct.
Where in the verse does it say "under these conditions honor"?
you got half a brain use it.
here read it, it doesn't matter the instruction for the parent in the context of the verse
Exodus 20:12 - Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
so what if parents have rules to follow, that isn't the point of the verse.
the verse stands upon it's own merits, your verse choice Colossians 3:21 doesn't change Exodus 20:12 which can get a child killed.
The best thing you could say to stay true to the verse is "the child was supposed to die, God's will/mystery occurred"
 
Like someone made up the WoW universe and its backstories.
What is Wow?
An online role playing game (World of Warcraft). The point being that over time, various "ancient" storylines have been added to a created "universe", the physics engine has been updated, etc.

In other words, the Genesis account could be completely accurate, and various portions of the universe were completed or added on at later dates. Perhaps the churches insistence on a geocentric world was accurate until a specific update. Perhaps the Mayan calendar was staged.
 
Do you realize how ridiculous your reasoning is? You seem to be saying that we shouldn't honor our parents because there are abusive parents out there or that the Bible said it was the thing to do. Have you asked yourself what might be clouding your judgment on that?

Colossians 3:21 You fathers, do not be exasperating your children, so that they do not become downhearted.
Ha, seriously the verse said honor so you can live a long time, didn't account for a parents conduct.
Where in the verse does it say "under these conditions honor"?
you got half a brain use it.
here read it, it doesn't matter the instruction for the parent in the context of the verse
Exodus 20:12 - Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
so what if parents have rules to follow, that isn't the point of the verse.
the verse stands upon it's own merits, your verse choice Colossians 3:21 doesn't change Exodus 20:12 which can get a child killed.
The best thing you could say to stay true to the verse is "the child was supposed to die, God's will/mystery occurred"

Wow. I mean, I don't know what kind of experiences you may have witnessed in your world, but the verse you give is pretty much the way to go when it comes to parents and their children. For the good of the children. That isn't a theist exclusive principle, it's a human one.
 
An online role playing game (World of Warcraft). The point being that over time, various "ancient" storylines have been added to a created "universe", the physics engine has been updated, etc.

In other words, the Genesis account could be completely accurate, and various portions of the universe were completed or added on at later dates. Perhaps the churches insistence on a geocentric world was accurate until a specific update. Perhaps the Mayan calendar was staged.

Cool. I have to admit, Kharakov, you are certainly in possession of some extremely interesting thoughts of a spiritual nature.
 
If any of you ever answered a fucking question instead of telling me why I'm asking the question we could do this a great deal faster.

The questions you pose are disingenuous, and the reason why you ask them blatantly obvious. They're poorly veiled attempts to steer the conversation along lines you feel you can address with your own arguments. For instance, the question I was responding to: You phrased the question in such a way as to try and force the conclusion that there's no difference in the standards of evidence between us accepting a scientific journal and you accepting the bible. But why should we allow you to so dishonestly try to control the outcome? You can only force the conclusion by creating a strawman position of science; and there is absolutely no excuse for either you doing this intentionally, or doing it unintentionally on account of not understanding the kind of science basics children get taught in school.
 
What you seem to fail to appreciate is that the Bible isn't just a book that validates itself, it is a collection of books by over 40 different authors over a period of hundreds of years. In that massive body of work if there is a point you glean from it that point must be confirmed by another. At least one other. If, on the other hand, two passages contradict one another you have a problem. Either you have misinterpreted it or have discovered an anomaly.

What you fail to realize is that it doesn't matter if it's 1 book or 40 different ones by 40 different authors over a period of hundreds of years. Indeed, the fact that they were written over such a long timespan immediately provides a reason to doubt the historical accuracy of much of the content.

What matters is that they're all trying to (more or less) make the same supernatural claim. It doesn't matter if only one believer claims "god is real, and we know this is true because he told me so"; or 4000 of them. It's circular either way. The point you've apparently taken away is "Oh, they're saying that you can't prove a *single* book's claims using only that book!". This is of course, an absurd takeaway. The reason we're saying the bible can't prove the bible isn't to do with the number of books; it has to do with the claims and the lack of independent verification.

You can't prove Hogwarts exists because there's more than one Harry Potter book.

"But wait!" you might say, "they were all written by one author, and the bible by different ones!"

Doesn't matter. The argument stays the exact same if we include all the Harry Potter fan fiction. That's because the fan authors, like the biblical authors, do not represent independent sources. Think of another example; let's say there's a cult that claims that on October 1st, 2009, there was a giant comet seen in the sky, and that this comet was actually God racing across the sky. Now, let's say 10 different members of the cult write about this. Does this mean we have independent verification of the event in question? No. Indeed, there is absolutely no reason to believe it actually happened. Only when other sources that are completely unrelated to the cult start mentioning the comet in the sky can we say the account is at least partially verified. If ESA mentioned the comet showing up at that time, then that verifies the comet's existence, but it doesn't provide any evidence for the cult's interpretation that the comet was god


Typically, the skeptic will say something to the effect that an event hasn't taken place due to it not having been discovered in some field of science or history,

No, we simply say that it is absurd to say with such authority that it *has* happened even though there's absolutely no evidence for it; and especially because the only motivation for insisting an event has happened is because otherwise the validity of your personal beliefs is threatened.


Skeptics of the Bible often question the dating of accurate Bible chronology regarding Jesus' birth based upon the incorrect notion that there was only one census taken while Publius Sulpicius was governor of Syria, at about 6 C.E.. The one that sparked a rebellion by Judas the Galilean and the Zealots. (Acts 5:37) That was the second, actually. Inscriptions found at and near Antioch reveals that some years earlier Quirinius served as the emperor's legate in Syria. As the Dictionnaire du Nouveau Testament in Crampon's French Bible (1939 ed., page 360) says: "The scholarly researches of Zumpt (Commentat. epigraph., II, 86-104; De Syria romana provincia, 97-98) and of Mommsen (Res gestae divi Augusti) place beyond doubt that Quirinius was twice governor of Syria."

In 1764 an inscription called the Lapis Tiburtinus was found which concurs.

This is simply incorrect. The argument that there were two censuses has been refuted by Raymond E. Brown in The Birth of the Messiah (1977, pp.546-555) and in the Anchor Bible Dictionary, "Chronology". It is far more logical to assume that the authors were simply ignorant of the facts; as demonstrated by the conflicting accounts between Luke and Matthew about where Joseph and Mary lived. But no, rather than admit the authors made a mistake, you find yourself forced to adhere to already refuted arguments.

Incidentally, the Lapis Tiburtinus does NOT show that Quirinius was governor of Syria twice. It doesn't even fucking mention him. But this is the sort of trickery Christian apologetics routinely employ; simply fabricating evidence out of thin air. Here's what the Lapis Tiburtinus actually says:

.....KING BROUGHT INTO THE POWER OF...
AUGUSTUS AND THE ROMAN PEOPLE AND SENATE...
FOR THIS HONOURED WITH TWO VICTORY CELEBRATIONS...
FOR THE SAME THING THE TRIUMPHAL DECORATION...
OBTAINED THE PROCONSULATE OF THE PROVINCE OF ASIA...
AGAIN OF THE DEIFIED AUGUSTUS SYRIA AND PH[OENICIA]...

There is absolutely no mention of Quirinius nor any way to link the inscription to him.




Science is different in that it changes according to new knowledge accumulated. That, of course, is a good thing, but from a theological perspective you can't expect a person who believes in the God of the Bible, who was there during the flood and who created everything to assume that the scientific process negates the super intelligent being that brought it all about and was there.

Of course I can expect that person to do so. To expect anything less of them is to assume they're fanatical idiots who can not adapt to new information. And even if it turns out that said assumption is correct; that's simply unacceptable.




Mankind's search for knowledge, whether theological or scientific, is imperfect and you can't deny that the monopoly on knowledge tends to lean towards a xenophobic desire to crush the competition.

There's no such thing as a monopoly on knowledge within science. One of the central pillars of the scientific method, peer review, makes it impossible to maintain a monopoly on knowledge.
 
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