The Case for Christianity

[Brunswick1954]

 Asides

Anyway, what is the case for Christianity? Certainly nothing in the OP presented it.

This is why I see nothing of importance to respond to in the thread.
No connection whatsoever between "The Case for Christianity" and the opinions in the OP. I honestly agree with most of the OP, but it isn't relevant to any particular religion. Much less one as fundamentally irrational as Christianity.
Tom

Ummm. So far, I've based my arguments on the Bible, no?

That’s the problem, though. You need independent lines of evidence. You don’t have any. There are not even any contemporaneous accounts of Jesus, which is quite surprising given that he allegedly performed miracles and rose from the dead.

a) Not sure what you mean by "independent lines of evidence"
b) If needed, perhaps in time to come? Threads in chatrooms are not the best media for longish arguments, esp. if they run counter to existing assumptions or preconceived understanding.

I thank you, and the rest as well, for your considered comments, though. We've just scratched the surface.

 

[pood]

 Asides

Anyway, what is the case for Christianity? Certainly nothing in the OP presented it.

This is why I see nothing of importance to respond to in the thread.
No connection whatsoever between "The Case for Christianity" and the opinions in the OP. I honestly agree with most of the OP, but it isn't relevant to any particular religion. Much less one as fundamentally irrational as Christianity.
Tom

Ummm. So far, I've based my arguments on the Bible, no?

That’s the problem, though. You need independent lines of evidence. You don’t have any. There are not even any contemporaneous accounts of Jesus, which is quite surprising given that he allegedly performed miracles and rose from the dead.

a) Not sure what you mean by "independent lines of evidence"

It’s simple. The bible cannot serve as evidence for its own veracity. You need independent, outside verification for such claims.

If the bible is taken as a book of myth, of fairy tales, that is fine. But if is taken to be making truth claims about the world, it does not cut it. Not even close. Many of its truth claims are outlandish and demonstrably false — such as that there was a worldwide flood. There wasn’t. We know that through geology.

The stories about Jesus have no contemporaneous witnesses or accounts and are spoken of nowhere else but in the bible, in accounts written decades after they allegedly happened. That is not evidence. It is myth-making and story telling.

Most people here have an evidence-based epistemology. Claims require evidence, and extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

You appear to have a faith-based epistemology, which means inevitably we will be talking past each other.

 

[steve_bank]

The key words in what Brunswick a says is 'my version '.


Based on long participation in the forum just another run of mill self styled variation.

You don't have to believe in god, jut follow the rules and you go to heaven.

And the question then to Christians is always exactly which rules in the bible?

Leviticus dietary rules? Kill gays?

Jesus reinforced Mosaic rules against fornication and divorce. Marriage between one man and one woman.

Way back in the 70s I knew a guy who said he believes in Jesus and so he is saved, what he does does not matter.

There s not now nor has there ever been a Christianity that was a unfed belief system. Yet they all insist it represent consistent morality.

The question I ask s how does the bible specifically guide you in daily life?

What say you Brunswick?

 

[pood]

\ Threads in chatrooms are not the best media for longish arguments, esp. if they run counter to existing assumptions or preconceived understanding.

That would be you who has these things.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

The origin of the word "spirit" is spirare, which simply means to breathe. In other words, every thing that is alive is spirit.

On the contrary, the implication is that everything that is alive breathes.

Which is one of the most absurd of the myriad attempts by humans to define what it means to be "alive".

The entire brewing industry depends on yeast living, growing, and reproducing in entirely anaerobic conditions. Any definition of "alive" that requires us to reject one of the worlds oldest industries as impossible, is a definition that shows its adherents to be abysmally ignorant of reality at the most fundamental level.

To suggest that the absence of breath indicates the absence of life, is so incredibly parochial and antropocentric as to show that those entertaining the suggestion have a depth of ignorance that is matched only by their wealth of self-importance.

Dude could've just spent a few minutes checking basic biology.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

My understanding, from the Bible, is that you don't have to believe in God in order to get into heaven. God exists, whether you believe it or not. And if you believe that our universe is governed by rules, and that we should live morally, you believe in God, whether you know it or not. And if you live that way, you will go to heaven, whether you want to or not.

Got it so you're just another arrogant piece of shit who assumes they know other peoples' beliefs are without asking them.

 

[ideologyhunter]

I see him as a liberally-slanted believer who reads a severe and tribal literary anthology with rose-colored clip-on spex. It's fine to think that God delivers warm fuzzies, and tells the angels every night, "A good day was had by all." But Jehovah is a dick. Thoroughly racist, revengeful, murderous. In lots of Bible yarns, he kills kids, sometimes for the crimes of their parents or great-great-great, etc. He kills thousands of people because a census was taken. He kills two brothers because they made an unauthorized sacrifice offering (apparently, their mistake was using the wrong kind of fire.) That's just scratchin' the surface. In our world, he'd be indicted for war crimes and need to hide out with Assad.
And, oh yeah -- gentle Jesus credentialed these scriptures and believed them.

 

[WAB]

It's better that there be pushback against intolerant orthodoxy within religious groups than that there be none at all. I'd rather there be Universalists and liberal Christians than that there be nothing but fundamentalists. If anyone is a piece of shit it's someone who thinks your failure to think differently than them merits you being tortured for eternity.

 

[TomC]

My understanding, from the Bible, is that you don't have to believe in God in order to get into heaven. God exists, whether you believe it or not. And if you believe that our universe is governed by rules, and that we should live morally, you believe in God, whether you know it or not. And if you live that way, you will go to heaven, whether you want to or not.

Got it so you're just another arrogant piece of shit who assumes they know other peoples' beliefs are without asking them.

Yeah, that is kinda what it looks like to me.

@Brunswick1954 is yet another Internet pundit who thinks that they know more about God and the Bible than the Pope and Billy Graham put together.

What I'm seeing is a Case that Christianity is just anything that someone believes if they identify as Christian. That's got a long and mostly ugly history.
Tom

 

[steve_bank]

For the Jesus cult devotees warm fuzzies is what it is all about.

Cult beliefs stimulate those feel good endorphins.

The term 'tripping; came out of the 60s. One is high on pot or psychedelics and rambles on and on..... profound revelations.

Brunswick is tripping.

 

[WAB]

My understanding, from the Bible, is that you don't have to believe in God in order to get into heaven. God exists, whether you believe it or not. And if you believe that our universe is governed by rules, and that we should live morally, you believe in God, whether you know it or not. And if you live that way, you will go to heaven, whether you want to or not.

Got it so you're just another arrogant piece of shit who assumes they know other peoples' beliefs are without asking them.

Yeah, that is kinda what it looks like to me.

@Brunswick1954 is yet another Internet pundit who thinks that they know more about God and the Bible than the Pope and Billy Graham put together.

Weird. I don't get that at all. I could sit and have a beer with Brunswick. But someone like William Lane Craig, who believes I deserve to be tortured forever, well he can go fuck himself.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

My understanding, from the Bible, is that you don't have to believe in God in order to get into heaven. God exists, whether you believe it or not. And if you believe that our universe is governed by rules, and that we should live morally, you believe in God, whether you know it or not. And if you live that way, you will go to heaven, whether you want to or not.

Got it so you're just another arrogant piece of shit who assumes they know other peoples' beliefs are without asking them.

Yeah, that is kinda what it looks like to me.

@Brunswick1954 is yet another Internet pundit who thinks that they know more about God and the Bible than the Pope and Billy Graham put together.

Weird. I don't get that at all. I could sit and have a beer with Brunswick.

Claiming that if we have morality we believe in god is literally on the same level of bad faith as William Lane Craig. I could not "have a beer" with someone so dishonest. That's not someone who is friendly, either. A friendly person would not assert I need god in order to have morality.

 

[TomC]

My understanding, from the Bible, is that you don't have to believe in God in order to get into heaven. God exists, whether you believe it or not. And if you believe that our universe is governed by rules, and that we should live morally, you believe in God, whether you know it or not. And if you live that way, you will go to heaven, whether you want to or not.

Got it so you're just another arrogant piece of shit who assumes they know other peoples' beliefs are without asking them.

Yeah, that is kinda what it looks like to me.

@Brunswick1954 is yet another Internet pundit who thinks that they know more about God and the Bible than the Pope and Billy Graham put together.

Weird. I don't get that at all. I could sit and have a beer with Brunswick. But someone like William Lane Craig, who believes I deserve to be tortured forever, well he can go fuck himself.

I'm not sure what you mean by "that". I'm talking about this thread and the assertions in it.

I'm not big on "having a beer" with celebrities of any sort. But I often find nut cases very entertaining, religious or otherwise. I have what might be considered a personality flaw. I enjoy chatting with people I vehemently disagree with more than folks I agree with.

Ya know what would make a fun dinner party? Jarhyn, Toni, RVonse, Learner ,Tigers!, and Arctish!
We'll get an immigrant, like TSwizzle, to wait the table...
Tom

 

[WAB]

My understanding, from the Bible, is that you don't have to believe in God in order to get into heaven. God exists, whether you believe it or not. And if you believe that our universe is governed by rules, and that we should live morally, you believe in God, whether you know it or not. And if you live that way, you will go to heaven, whether you want to or not.

Got it so you're just another arrogant piece of shit who assumes they know other peoples' beliefs are without asking them.

Yeah, that is kinda what it looks like to me.

@Brunswick1954 is yet another Internet pundit who thinks that they know more about God and the Bible than the Pope and Billy Graham put together.

Weird. I don't get that at all. I could sit and have a beer with Brunswick. But someone like William Lane Craig, who believes I deserve to be tortured forever, well he can go fuck himself.

I'm not sure what you mean by "that". I'm talking about this thread and the assertions in it.

I'm not big on "having a beer" with celebrities of any sort. But I often find nut cases very entertaining, religious or otherwise. I have what might be considered a personality flaw. I enjoy chatting with people I vehemently disagree with more than folks I agree with.

Ya know what would make a fun dinner party? Jarhyn, Toni, RVonse, Learner ,Tigers!, and Arctish!
We'll get an immigrant, like TSwizzle, to wait the table...
Tom

I meant that I didn't get the same impression of Brunswick that you did. In fact not even close.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

My understanding, from the Bible, is that you don't have to believe in God in order to get into heaven. God exists, whether you believe it or not. And if you believe that our universe is governed by rules, and that we should live morally, you believe in God, whether you know it or not. And if you live that way, you will go to heaven, whether you want to or not.

Got it so you're just another arrogant piece of shit who assumes they know other peoples' beliefs are without asking them.

Yeah, that is kinda what it looks like to me.

@Brunswick1954 is yet another Internet pundit who thinks that they know more about God and the Bible than the Pope and Billy Graham put together.

Weird. I don't get that at all. I could sit and have a beer with Brunswick. But someone like William Lane Craig, who believes I deserve to be tortured forever, well he can go fuck himself.

I'm not sure what you mean by "that". I'm talking about this thread and the assertions in it.

I'm not big on "having a beer" with celebrities of any sort. But I often find nut cases very entertaining, religious or otherwise. I have what might be considered a personality flaw. I enjoy chatting with people I vehemently disagree with more than folks I agree with.

Ya know what would make a fun dinner party? Jarhyn, Toni, RVonse, Learner ,Tigers!, and Arctish!
We'll get an immigrant, like TSwizzle, to wait the table...
Tom

I meant that I didn't get the same impression of Brunswick that you did. In fact not even close.

Yes, we should be totally fine with someone who lies about our beliefs. I am sure they have the best of intentions.

 

[TomC]

I meant that I didn't get the same impression of Brunswick that you did. In fact not even close.

Oh, okay.
I got bored with his religion awhile back and prolly didn't keep up.
He can call it whatever he wants, but it's not Christianity.
Tom

 

[WAB]

My understanding, from the Bible, is that you don't have to believe in God in order to get into heaven. God exists, whether you believe it or not. And if you believe that our universe is governed by rules, and that we should live morally, you believe in God, whether you know it or not. And if you live that way, you will go to heaven, whether you want to or not.

Got it so you're just another arrogant piece of shit who assumes they know other peoples' beliefs are without asking them.

Yeah, that is kinda what it looks like to me.

@Brunswick1954 is yet another Internet pundit who thinks that they know more about God and the Bible than the Pope and Billy Graham put together.

Weird. I don't get that at all. I could sit and have a beer with Brunswick. But someone like William Lane Craig, who believes I deserve to be tortured forever, well he can go fuck himself.

I'm not sure what you mean by "that". I'm talking about this thread and the assertions in it.

I'm not big on "having a beer" with celebrities of any sort. But I often find nut cases very entertaining, religious or otherwise. I have what might be considered a personality flaw. I enjoy chatting with people I vehemently disagree with more than folks I agree with.

Ya know what would make a fun dinner party? Jarhyn, Toni, RVonse, Learner ,Tigers!, and Arctish!
We'll get an immigrant, like TSwizzle, to wait the table...
Tom

I meant that I didn't get the same impression of Brunswick that you did. In fact not even close.

Yes, we should be totally fine with someone who lies about our beliefs.

What Brunswick believes about other people's beliefs are beliefs. A belief isn't a lie. Certainly you know that?

If someone believes the Earth is flat, and say it, they are not lying, even if what they are saying is false.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

My understanding, from the Bible, is that you don't have to believe in God in order to get into heaven. God exists, whether you believe it or not. And if you believe that our universe is governed by rules, and that we should live morally, you believe in God, whether you know it or not. And if you live that way, you will go to heaven, whether you want to or not.

Got it so you're just another arrogant piece of shit who assumes they know other peoples' beliefs are without asking them.

Yeah, that is kinda what it looks like to me.

@Brunswick1954 is yet another Internet pundit who thinks that they know more about God and the Bible than the Pope and Billy Graham put together.

Weird. I don't get that at all. I could sit and have a beer with Brunswick. But someone like William Lane Craig, who believes I deserve to be tortured forever, well he can go fuck himself.

I'm not sure what you mean by "that". I'm talking about this thread and the assertions in it.

I'm not big on "having a beer" with celebrities of any sort. But I often find nut cases very entertaining, religious or otherwise. I have what might be considered a personality flaw. I enjoy chatting with people I vehemently disagree with more than folks I agree with.

Ya know what would make a fun dinner party? Jarhyn, Toni, RVonse, Learner ,Tigers!, and Arctish!
We'll get an immigrant, like TSwizzle, to wait the table...
Tom

I meant that I didn't get the same impression of Brunswick that you did. In fact not even close.

Yes, we should be totally fine with someone who lies about our beliefs.

What Brunswick believes about other people's beliefs are beliefs. A belief isn't a lie. Certainly you know that?

I'm not willing to be charitable to someone who isn't giving me the same degree of charitability. It's simple as that.

 

[TomC]

Yes, we should be totally fine with someone who lies about our beliefs. I am sure they have the best of intentions.

What can I say?
I'm a gay male naturist, grew up Catholic, lived my whole life in deep red Jesusville, Trumpistan. I got used to that a long time ago.
Tom

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Regardless, why would I "have a beer" with someone who thinks so lowly of me? That I need god in order to have morality? Why would I have a beer with someone like that? That's insane to me.