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The Case for Christianity

Jesus rising is the keystone to Christianity. It is the only thing that matters.
If that’s true, it relegates Christianity to the status of any other cult founded on impossible fables.
So, what in particular vaulted it to the World’s Largest (other than by aggregating the numbers of incompatible sub-sects)? Mere riches? The opulence, pomp and ceremony of The Vatican?
It mystifies me.
 
This is sensitive and insightful.

A bit odd how you never treat evolutionary theory (or atheism) with any sensitivity, if you claim to care about sensitivity.
It's true. I have acted in a way here that leaves a lot to be desired. It comes from enthusiasm for my cause and a fight back mentality. Looking to change some things now. I will say, though, that I don't really have any regrets. I learned a lot from my confrontations here. I am now in a place, however, where I don't feel the need to learn much more. I've completed my knowledge quest, and now I want to do what I can to create a harmonious community.
 
This is sensitive and insightful.

A bit odd how you never treat evolutionary theory (or atheism) with any sensitivity, if you claim to care about sensitivity.
It's true. I have acted in a way here that leaves a lot to be desired. It comes from enthusiasm for my cause and a fight back mentality. Looking to change some things now. I will say, though, that I don't really have any regrets. I learned a lot from my confrontations here. I am now in a place, however, where I don't feel the need to learn much more. I've completed my knowledge quest, and now I want to do what I can to create a harmonious community.

So just leave atheists alone then? Why does there need to be a marriage between atheism and Christianity?
 
So just leave atheists alone then? Why does there need to be a marriage between atheism and Christianity?

Sure, leave atheists alone, no problem. Christians, too. I'm just looking for those who might be interested in the reconciliation of atheism and Christianity. Why? Because that is, in my view, the path to the wellbeing of mankind. Not everyone has to sign up. We just need a small cohesive community to guide mankind. I thought this might be a good place to look. Maybe it will be.
 
There is a passage in The Brothers Karamazov that is often condensed to, “if God does not exist, all is permitted,” yet that is not a direct quote but a paraphrase of part of a question in a dialogue.

The opposite idea is that if God does not exist, all is prohibited, or at least not all is permitted. The idea here is that without a literal God, we are left to our own evolved moral devices and more, not less, responsibility falls on us for moral and ethical behaviors.

Zizek noted something to the effect that it takes men to avoid killing others, most finding it abhorrent, but it takes God to sanction killing as trivial compared to God’s greatness and obeying his commands.
 
Another way to put this is that men, at least among their kin groups and in groups, are naturally cooperative, beneficent, and resolute practitioners of reciprocal altruism. It takes civilization, castes, hierarchies, priests and politicians to set people against people. Jared Diamond has a famous essay contending that the transition from hunter-gatherers to settled communities was humankind’s greatest mistake. I’ve often thought that the Garden of Eden story represents an ancestral memory of that very transition, with humankind coming out worse on the civilization end.
 
^If all committed atheists read The Karamazov Brothers, we'd be well on the road to a bright future.

Mankind's moral sense will develop ultimately from the inside out. As Jeremiah states, "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts."

Man cannot remain in a tribal state. His destiny is universal community. Infinite suffering is involved in this evolution.
 


For over twenty years I've been promoting Christian atheism on this site. My very first post here was about the work of Constantin Brunner, who argues in his book, Our Christ: The Revolt of the Mystical Genius, that Jesus was an atheist. For a synopsis, see "Jesus as the atheistic mystic."

If we take seriously Brunner’s characterization of Jesus as an atheistic mystic, perhaps a modern heir would be the late Krishnamurti, groomed by the Theosophical Society to be the World Teacher. He famously repudiated all of it, declaring “truth is a pathless land,” and abjured all religion, politics, cultural influences, all isms, and the very idea of conditioning itself.
 
It seems to me that many holy books or later interpretations of them is to try to literalize the mystic experience of the ineffable, which of course you can’t do, because it is … ineffable. The mystical experience is quite common throughout the ages.
 
Jesus rising is the keystone to Christianity. It is the only thing that matters.
If that’s true, it relegates Christianity to the status of any other cult founded on impossible fables.
So, what in particular vaulted it to the World’s Largest (other than by aggregating the numbers of incompatible sub-sects)? Mere riches? The opulence, pomp and ceremony of The Vatican?
It mystifies me.

Authoritarianism is the one-word answer.

Once Christianity became the official religion of an empire—specifically, the Roman Empire under Constantine in the 4th century—it spread through imperial mechanisms. This expansion didn’t rely solely on the spiritual appeal of the message but was backed by power structures. Christianity was then transmitted to successor states and colonial powers that continued the pattern of spread through conquest, colonization, and forced conversion. In this way, imperialism became a vehicle of authoritarian expansion.

A notable example is the Spanish colonization of the Americas, where Catholicism was used as both a spiritual and political tool to subjugate indigenous populations. Another example is Charlemagne's forced conversions of the Saxons in the 8th and 9th centuries, where refusal to convert to Christianity was punishable by death. And of course, the Inquisition—a series of institutions within the Catholic Church—exemplifies how internal control was maintained through coercion, persecution, and suppression of dissent.

But even before Christianity became the religion of an empire, a key shift had already occurred: it moved beyond the bounds of tribal or ethnic religions. Unlike Judaism, which was closely tied to a specific people and cultural identity, Christianity opened itself up to anyone willing to convert. This universality gave it a structural advantage—greater scalability, if you will—in terms of membership.

Going back further, in the earliest stages of the faith, there was a spectrum of belief about who Jesus was. Some early Christian groups saw him as a human teacher or prophet, while others promoted his divine nature. Texts like the Gospel of Thomas present a very different picture of Jesus, one that emphasizes divine immanence—God within all people—rather than exclusive divinity in a single figure. These alternate views existed before being officially declared heretical, such as in the Council of Nicaea in 325 CE, which formalized the doctrine of Jesus’ divinity and laid the groundwork for what would become Christian orthodoxy.

It’s likely that, assuming Jesus did exist, his death by crucifixion created a crisis of belief for his followers. The cognitive dissonance between a miracle-working messiah and a humiliating public execution demanded explanation. As often happens in movements with charismatic leaders, the narrative adapted: instead of a failure, the crucifixion became part of a divine plan. Resurrection became a central tenet, and dissenting views were increasingly sidelined.

Over time, theological diversity was systematically narrowed. Councils, creeds, and ecclesiastical hierarchies selected certain texts as canonical and rejected others. The resulting Bible and the doctrines that grew from it were the products of deliberation and exclusion. These decisions were often made not purely for spiritual reasons, but also for the sake of cohesion, control, and institutional continuity.

So yes, the divinity of Christ became central, not purely because it was the most compelling spiritual idea, but because it was the one that survived and was enforced within a power structure. What we now call “Christianity” is the result of those historical, political, and authoritarian processes, not merely a spontaneous worldwide embrace of an original message.
 
It seems to me that many holy books or later interpretations of them is to try to literalize the mystic experience of the ineffable, which of course you can’t do, because it is … ineffable. The mystical experience is quite common throughout the ages.
A good writer on mysticism is the Quaker Rufus Matthew Jones. In his essay, "The Testimony of Mysticism," (available from here: search by author then click on Social Law in the Spiritual World: Studies in Human and Divine Inter-relationship, then on the TOC to find the essay), he writes about "affirmation mystics," stating:

They do not make vision the end of life, but rather the beginning. They are bent on having an immediate, first-hand sense of God—but not just for the joy of having it. More important than vision is obedience to the vision. There are battles to fight and victories to win. God's Kingdom is to be advanced. Error is to be attacked and truth to be established. Those who see God must gird for service. Those who would have a closer view of the divine must seek it in a life of love and sacrifice.

It is this idea of mysticism as work that is the key.
 
Not merely whether Jesus rose? Jesus rising is the keystone to Christianity. It is the only thing that matters.
I must say, this is a sentiment I wholly disagree with. If on some level it is true, it ought not be. What is the use of a dying and rising God, if they do nothing else of note and you ignore all of their teachings? Claimed resurrections are a dime a dozen in this world, when I think "Buddhist philosophy" or "Christian perspective" or "Islamic culture", the first things I think of are ideas, not miracles.
 
Apparent Jesus in language of the day may have been a common name in Jewish culture 2000 years ago.

Christians swoon at name of Jesus. Imagine today instead of Jesus Christ you say something like Donald Messiah.

Donald saves! Believe in Donald and you will go to heaven! Donald came to wash away your sins!
Donald is my personal savior.

Donald Donald Donald!

2000 years from now, hot debate over an historical Donald?
I like the thinking (in entertaining terms). Jesus is a common name of the times?

Yes, you could make the argument then that there were many Paul's, Luke's, Moses's or John's etc.. & etc. Why should it be Jesus only? That'll stump the Christians.

Not.

I was pointng out mist peolle don; even udesnd the nae, they ret it and get warm and fuzzy.

In I(ndan t6raditions, a antra. he wrd itself is meningless.


In Amercan cculture tere are names used to represnt evyy man or an orsnry citzen.

GI Joe form WWII. John Doe the anonymous citizen.

The name Jesus in the language of the day could in the gospels be a general reference and the words associated with Jesus a mix of different people, hear say, and fiction.

Unless you were there, were Jewish, and knew the language and colloquialisms there is no way to know what the name Jesus meant. There is words about the family of Jesus, but no family name.
 
Didn't St. Paul write, "If Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith"?
 
Didn't St. Paul write, "If Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith"?
Well, he would be wrong, if you take it as a mystical/mythical/ethical insight.

If the teachings attributed to Jesus have a core value, they are the teachings themselves. The ex-post facto mythologizing of him as the son of god who rose from the dead is, I would suggest, a way of wowing the masses into accepting yet another ism, another authority figure. And it worked. And today we have Christian fundies who pretty much go against everything Christ reputedly taught — and they do so in his very name.
 
It would be as if 2,000 years from now Superman is worshiped as the literal son of God, Jor-el, and then all of what he did is reinterpreted to espouse in his name the ethics of Lex Luthor.
 
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