The Case for Christianity

[bilby]

If there is one thing Yahweh is bad at in the Tanakh... it is offering forgiveness. The mercy always comes after the ass whooping.

Said in a likewise manner...

..."the whooping" always comes after the warning.

So what. The critical aspect was Yahweh's forgiveness.

I mention the warnings that were given before the "whooping" because I see a false illustration automatically being pictured here - when you posted the statement below...

"If there is one thing Yahweh is bad at in the Tanakh... it is offering forgiveness. The mercy always comes after the ass whooping."

...the statement would mistakenly imply:

God just gives out "whoopings" willy nilly without reason when omitting the bit about 'being warned' and the consequences that would follow - which illustrates a rather different 'perspective' of God to the one your statement seems to allude to.

I remain underconvinced that God qualifies as good, even if you can prove that he's not a psychopath, but just a bully.

God combines all the traits of an abusive father, abusive husband, and abusive boss, that were held to be normal and reasonable in the pre-enlightenment era, when children, wives, and labourers were expected to be too poorly educated to grasp anything other than threats backed with actual violence.

We have been doing better than that for a few centuries now.

 

[ideologyhunter]

from a piece by Ronald A. Lindsay in the June/July ish of Free Inquiry:

The "God-shaped hole" we humans allegedly have is nothing more than the angst suffered by some believers over the radical contingency of life. I and most of my fellow atheists do not experience that hole. We accept life as it is, and we decline to replace reality with real emptiness: the utter vacuity of an imaginary deity.

 

[steve_bank]

Knock knock.
Who’s there?
It is the god Yahweh!
What do you want?
I need a son to sacrifice and I want to impregnate your wife.


Knock knock.
Who’s there?
It is your king Henry the 8th!
What do you want?
I need a male heir and I would like to impregnate your daughter.

God the male patriarch with power of life and death over his subjects.

 

[TomC]

..."the whooping" always comes after the warning. This covenant, which warns of the consequences of judgement/justice (which still stands) was way back.. long before even the Ten Commandments!

Why doesn't God just make humans better?
Smarter. More perceptive. Better mental processes. More able to use critical thinking.

Less inclined towards habit and instinct and the general lack of rational morality that we humans are so painfully prone towards.

What about that? Why is "Almighty God" so excruciatingly bad at making humans?

To me, that is the true "Problem on Evil". Human nature.
Tom

 

[Learner]

If there is one thing Yahweh is bad at in the Tanakh... it is offering forgiveness. The mercy always comes after the ass whooping.

Said in a likewise manner...

..."the whooping" always comes after the warning.

So what. The critical aspect was Yahweh's forgiveness.

I mention the warnings that were given before the "whooping" because I see a false illustration automatically being pictured here - when you posted the statement below...

"If there is one thing Yahweh is bad at in the Tanakh... it is offering forgiveness. The mercy always comes after the ass whooping."

...the statement would mistakenly imply:

God just gives out "whoopings" willy nilly without reason when omitting the bit about 'being warned' and the consequences that would follow - which illustrates a rather different 'perspective' of God to the one your statement seems to allude to.

I remain underconvinced that God qualifies as good, even if you can prove that he's not a psychopath, but just a bully.

That must be the feeling (putting it lightly), how ancient people must of thought of God when he interfered with their murderous warlike cultural mentality, spoiling their fun.

The ten commandments was to stop the Hebrews from outside influences, adopting the same cultural habits, which to sum up...Thall shalt not do evil, etc. & etc.. Christianity spoils the fun for many lovers of harmful depravities etc.

God combines all the traits of an abusive father, abusive husband, and abusive boss, that were held to be normal and reasonable in the pre-enlightenment era, when children, wives, and labourers were expected to be too poorly educated to grasp anything other than threats backed with actual violence.

Like the response above, it was the norm in ancient days to war against nations. Murder, rape, enslavement and so on. Unfortunately for them, who for example attacked the Israelites, had chose the wrong target to their demise..

We have been doing better than that for a few centuries now.

We have become "less warlike" in the last few centuries, you mean? Ok.

 

[pood]

If there is one thing Yahweh is bad at in the Tanakh... it is offering forgiveness. The mercy always comes after the ass whooping.

Said in a likewise manner...

..."the whooping" always comes after the warning.

So what. The critical aspect was Yahweh's forgiveness.

I mention the warnings that were given before the "whooping" because I see a false illustration automatically being pictured here - when you posted the statement below...

"If there is one thing Yahweh is bad at in the Tanakh... it is offering forgiveness. The mercy always comes after the ass whooping."

...the statement would mistakenly imply:

God just gives out "whoopings" willy nilly without reason when omitting the bit about 'being warned' and the consequences that would follow - which illustrates a rather different 'perspective' of God to the one your statement seems to allude to.

I remain underconvinced that God qualifies as good, even if you can prove that he's not a psychopath, but just a bully.

That must be the feeling (putting it lightly), how ancient people must of thought of God when he interfered with their murderous warlike cultural mentality, spoiling their fun.

God was a projection of their murderous, warlike cultural mentality.

The ten commandments was to stop the Hebrews from outside influences, adopting the same cultural habits, which to sum up...Thall shalt not do evil, etc. & etc.. Christianity spoils the fun for many lovers of harmful depravities etc.

Except for abortion clinic boomers, evangelicals who spew poisonous nonsense and line their pockets off their flocks of sheeple, etc.

God combines all the traits of an abusive father, abusive husband, and abusive boss, that were held to be normal and reasonable in the pre-enlightenment era, when children, wives, and labourers were expected to be too poorly educated to grasp anything other than threats backed with actual violence.

Like the response above, it was the norm in ancient days to war against nations. Murder, rape, enslavement and so on. Unfortunately for them, who for example attacked the Israelites, had chose the wrong target to their demise..

Except when iron chariots came into play. Then the all-powerful god was powerless.

 

[southernhybrid]

Before I realized there were no gods, I searched for a better god than the one in the Bible that I had been taught to believe as a child. If one is honest with themselves, they will realize that the god of the Bible is a narcissistic, psychopathic, schizophrenic god. He insists on everyone worshiping him and about half of his 10 commandments are about worshipping him, instead of simply demanding moral behavior. It's always about me, me, me. Worship me. Bow down to me. I'm the only one etc. I see that as obvious narcissistic behavior.

Then he loves to kill, destroy, without any evidence of empathy. He asks his prophet Abe to kill his only son and when Abe is just about to do the act, God tells him he doesn't really have to do it, as he was just testing his faith. He punishes anyone with eternal torture, who doesn't believe that he is the only one true god and his so called creation are all sinners just because a talking snake tempted a woman to eat some fruit, the fruit of knowledge it's been called. I guess he didn't want anyone to be to smart or they'd realize he's a fake. He allows his only son to be brutally killed which is somehow an act of compassion and sacrifice for the rest of us. I realize the blood sacrifice is a common thing in many mythologies. WTF! If those aren't a few examples of psychopathy, I don't know what it. Of course, this is all mythology, but a rather harsh one imo.

Now, let's consider his symptoms of schizophrenia. People with this disorder suffer from delusions. I cared for many of them while working as a professional nurse. The Bible god believes he is three gods in one. it's like having a multiple personality complex I guess, which is rather delusional from my perspective. But thinking you rule the universe, know what everyone is thinking at all times, and have the power to put people into an afterlife depending on what they believe is quite delusional.

When I told my Conservative Baptist teenage friends back in the late 60s that we had been fooled, one looked at me and told me not to think about it too much. That is the secret to believing in Bible god. Just don't think too much or you will realize you've been taken for a fool by an evil mythological creature or perhaps I should say by the no good greedy or in some cases, well meaning pastor who rules the church.

I understand that liberal Christians have their own nicer interpretations and versions of the Bible. I appreciate them for that. I just don't really understand their need to take their myths as truths. For some reason, mythology continues to be powerful even in the modern world. I doubt that as long as humans exist, we will ever overcome our attraction to mythology.

I've always found it amusing that believers can see that the ancient gods were mythological in nature, but are able to believe their own god/gods are actually exist. I love my Christian friends but I am perplexed by their ability to accept these myths as truth.

 

[pood]

We have become "less warlike" in the last few centuries, you mean? Ok.

So we are still murderous and warlike. So where is God today to give us warnings, and step in and stop our fun? Just like he is for children with brain cancer — nowhere to be found.

 

[pood]

Before I realized there were no gods, I searched for a better god than the one in the Bible that I had been taught to believe as a child. If one is honest with themselves, they will realize that the god of the Bible is a narcissistic, psychopathic, schizophrenic god. He insists on everyone worshiping him and about half of his 10 commandments are about worshipping him, instead of simply demanding moral behavior. It's always about me, me, me. Worship me. Bow down to me. I'm the only one etc. I see that as obvious narcissistic behavior.

The Old Testament god is Donald Trump in the sky.

 

[Learner]

l

We have become "less warlike" in the last few centuries, you mean? Ok.

So we are still murderous and warlike. So where is God today to give us warnings, and step in and stop our fun? Just like he is for children with brain cancer — nowhere to be found.

I do agree, we are still murderous and warlike. There are some who think "we have been doing better these last few centuries". Nice. to see we don't always disagree.

Yeah so, the whole idea of Jesus to preach and teach is: how to live together in the harsh world. is 'by ourselves' (which is what many would wish for, no doubt). He preached about treating and loving each other, especially 'after he leaves us'.

In a manner of speaking...God has left the building. No more direct Judgement or instant consequences as we see in the OT. Judgement is delayed untill Christ's returns i.e Judgement day!

 

[pood]

l

We have become "less warlike" in the last few centuries, you mean? Ok.

So we are still murderous and warlike. So where is God today to give us warnings, and step in and stop our fun? Just like he is for children with brain cancer — nowhere to be found.

I do agree, we are still murderous and warlike. You know, there are some who think "we have been doing better these last few centuries"? Nice. to see we don't always disagree.

As usual, you did not answer the question. YOU said we were still murderous and warlike, not I. According to you, your fairy-tale Bronze Age god warned people against violence and then violently smote then when they disobeyed. Guess violence begets violence, eh? Who knew? In any case, since you believe in this fairy-tale version of god, I am asking where is he today to warn and smite, since, according to you, we are all still murderous and warlike?

 

[southernhybrid]

Before I realized there were no gods, I searched for a better god than the one in the Bible that I had been taught to believe as a child. If one is honest with themselves, they will realize that the god of the Bible is a narcissistic, psychopathic, schizophrenic god. He insists on everyone worshiping him and about half of his 10 commandments are about worshipping him, instead of simply demanding moral behavior. It's always about me, me, me. Worship me. Bow down to me. I'm the only one etc. I see that as obvious narcissistic behavior.

The Old Testament god is Donald Trump in the sky.

Yes. I was going to make that analogy. Glad you did as they do have a lot in common.

 

[Learner]

l

We have become "less warlike" in the last few centuries, you mean? Ok.

So we are still murderous and warlike. So where is God today to give us warnings, and step in and stop our fun? Just like he is for children with brain cancer — nowhere to be found.

I do agree, we are still murderous and warlike. You know, there are some who think "we have been doing better these last few centuries"? Nice. to see we don't always disagree.

As usual, you did not answer the question.

If I weren't mistaken I would think you were a dreamer.

YOU said we were still murderous and warlike, not I. According to you, your fairy-tale Bronze Age god warned people against violence and then violently smote then when they disobeyed.

The warnings are universally known. It's called judgement.

With this ethic you seem to portray. Do you go around protesting against the world wars today ?

Guess violence begets violence, eh? Who knew? In any case, since you believe in this fairy-tale version of god, I am asking where is he today to warn and smite, since, according to you, we are all still murderous and warlike?

The warnings is the part often debated about i.e damnation, hell. the fear of God. Have you forgotten these debates?

 

[Jarhyn]

What if “saved” really means “reserved for later use”?
Like, you’re not in the front of the line for eternal torture, but being a flawed human, there is some torture due, which will be meted out at a later date when God’s schedule permits, and meanwhile he’s “saving” you for later?

What if it means "saved" like "leftovers from the restaurant", not like for punishment but so that he can eat you? And heaven is more like a refrigerator or replicator menu, and he lets you exist actively there to pick up more flavor?

 

[steve_bank]

Western liberal democracy, the UN, NATO, and EU area port WWII step up.

A key principle is separation of church and state, while the Catholic popes keep trying to inject themselves intothe mix as a ridiculous moral voice. After the election of the new pope the Vatican claimed if there is peace in Ukraine or Gaza it will be due to the popes.

Gaza and the Mid East is a grotesque dystopian conflict of ancient religions. Jews, Persians, and Arabs,.

Arab Muslims vs Persian Muslims, and both against Jews.

Here in the USA a newer faction is Christian Nationalism.

Christian nationalism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Christian nationalism is a form of religious nationalism that focuses on promoting the Christian views of its followers, in order to achieve prominence or dominance in political, cultural, and social life.[1][2] In countries with a state church, Christian nationalists seek to preserve the status of a Christian state.

This is the main reason I have posted on the religion forum for all these years. Based on a gospel line they think hhey are mandated by a god to make the country and the world Christian.

Trump has recently said 'we are going to bring back Chrtianity to America'.

While I try and be balanced acknowledging the positive aspects of religion, it remains a highly destructive and divisive force.

 

[Elixir]

What if “saved” really means “reserved for later use”?
Like, you’re not in the front of the line for eternal torture, but being a flawed human, there is some torture due, which will be meted out at a later date when God’s schedule permits, and meanwhile he’s “saving” you for later?

What if it means "saved" like "leftovers from the restaurant", not like for punishment but so that he can eat you? And heaven is more like a refrigerator or replicator menu, and he lets you exist actively there to pick up more flavor?

Why do you ask? Would that surprise you?
Of course God doesn’t want people with good taste as much as He wants the ones who taste good.

 

[TomC]

Of course God doesn’t want people with good taste as much as He wants the ones who taste good.

Ha ha ha
That always struck me as a bizarrely bad ad campaign. But then, I've always disliked fish including tuna.

That was a pretty big problem as the child of a couple of conservative Catholic parents way back then.
Tom

 

[Elixir]

That was a pretty big problem as the child of a couple of conservative Catholic parents way back then.
Tom

I always wondered about that. Is Friday “run away from home Day” for kids in Catholic households?

 

[TomC]

That was a pretty big problem as the child of a couple of conservative Catholic parents way back then.
Tom

I always wondered about that. Is Friday “run away from home Day” for kids in Catholic households?

No, the rest of my siblings and my Dad were fine with it.

Although, now that I think about it, my Dad often had work stuff to do on Friday evening. He'd "grab a bite somewhere", saving him from fish sticks dinners and fighting with me (I was not a model child)
Tom

 

[bilby]

If there is one thing Yahweh is bad at in the Tanakh... it is offering forgiveness. The mercy always comes after the ass whooping.

Said in a likewise manner...

..."the whooping" always comes after the warning.

So what. The critical aspect was Yahweh's forgiveness.

I mention the warnings that were given before the "whooping" because I see a false illustration automatically being pictured here - when you posted the statement below...

"If there is one thing Yahweh is bad at in the Tanakh... it is offering forgiveness. The mercy always comes after the ass whooping."

...the statement would mistakenly imply:

God just gives out "whoopings" willy nilly without reason when omitting the bit about 'being warned' and the consequences that would follow - which illustrates a rather different 'perspective' of God to the one your statement seems to allude to.

I remain underconvinced that God qualifies as good, even if you can prove that he's not a psychopath, but just a bully.

That must be the feeling (putting it lightly), how ancient people must of thought of God when he interfered with their murderous warlike cultural mentality, spoiling their fun.

The ten commandments was to stop the Hebrews from outside influences, adopting the same cultural habits, which to sum up...Thall shalt not do evil, etc. & etc.. Christianity spoils the fun for many lovers of harmful depravities etc.

I would like to reply to this, but I honestly cannot understand what you are trying to say.

God combines all the traits of an abusive father, abusive husband, and abusive boss, that were held to be normal and reasonable in the pre-enlightenment era, when children, wives, and labourers were expected to be too poorly educated to grasp anything other than threats backed with actual violence.

Like the response above, it was the norm in ancient days to war against nations.

I am pretty confident that fathers, husbands, and bosses do not war against nations.

Murder, rape, enslavement and so on. Unfortunately for them, who for example attacked the Israelites, had chose the wrong target to their demise..

That sounds like pure tribalism to me; It's the logic of the football hooligan, not of a loving God.

We have been doing better than that for a few centuries now.

We have become "less warlike" in the last few centuries, you mean? Ok.

Yes. We have. Are you really ignorant of that fact?