The Cruelty Is The Point

[ZiprHead]

 

[Loren Pechtel]

They're dropping them in blue areas. Why are the police not arresting them?

For what? Kidnapping? Criminal negligence?

Reckless endangerment. Dropping lightly-clothed people into such environments poses a substantial risk to them.

 

[bigfield]

They're dropping them in blue areas. Why are the police not arresting them?

For what? Kidnapping? Criminal negligence?

Reckless endangerment. Dropping lightly-clothed people into such environments poses a substantial risk to them.

That would probably be the first time ever that the police arrest a bus driver for doing that.

At this point it appears that the Texas governor, the bus company, the bus driver, and everyone else complicit in this act of cruelty are going to get away with it, scot-free. Which means they will probably do it again.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

They're dropping them in blue areas. Why are the police not arresting them?

For what? Kidnapping? Criminal negligence?

Reckless endangerment. Dropping lightly-clothed people into such environments poses a substantial risk to them.

That would probably be the first time ever that the police arrest a bus driver for doing that.

At this point it appears that the Texas governor, the bus company, the bus driver, and everyone else complicit in this act of cruelty are going to get away with it, scot-free. Which means they will probably do it again.

Typically bus drivers are dropping people into places they are prepared for even if it's not obvious to the bus driver. They're not dressed for the weather but they know their house is a block away, they're fine.

In this sort of case, though, it's clear the people don't know what they're getting into.

 

[TomC]

In this sort of case, though, it's clear the people don't know what they're getting into.

This is what makes it human trafficking, IMNSHO.

Maybe at least some of the passengers did understand enough to choose to go. But maybe not. And unless all of them did then whoever put them all on that bus is guilty of human trafficking.

Had the Texan authorities just called ahead to let the right people know that the busloads of people were coming, and where they'd be dropped off, it would be different.
Tom

 

[Angry Floof]

Endangering the welfare of children. I mean, that’s a crime, right?

By Christian standards it is.
Or should be.

According to Jesus Christ, "What you do for the Least you do for Me."

Unfortunately for Christendom, Christians don't much care about The Gospel when it interferes with their personal stuff.

Christians DO do for the least among them... Among THEM. The rest of the world belongs to Satan so they're not required to care about them (but there's always the option to punish/ruin them if they can).

 

[Loren Pechtel]

In this sort of case, though, it's clear the people don't know what they're getting into.

This is what makes it human trafficking, IMNSHO.

Maybe at least some of the passengers did understand enough to choose to go. But maybe not. And unless all of them did then whoever put them all on that bus is guilty of human trafficking.

Had the Texan authorities just called ahead to let the right people know that the busloads of people were coming, and where they'd be dropped off, it would be different.
Tom

That, also. That's a more complex thing, though, but the hazardous situation bit does not seem that complex. If I were to drive someone to a remote trailhead and then abandon them there I would expect to find the cops on my door.

 

[robnisch]

In this sort of case, though, it's clear the people don't know what they're getting into.

This is what makes it human trafficking, IMNSHO.

Maybe at least some of the passengers did understand enough to choose to go. But maybe not. And unless all of them did then whoever put them all on that bus is guilty of human trafficking.

Had the Texan authorities just called ahead to let the right people know that the busloads of people were coming, and where they'd be dropped off, it would be different.
Tom

That, also. That's a more complex thing, though, but the hazardous situation bit does not seem that complex. If I were to drive someone to a remote trailhead and then abandon them there I would expect to find the cops on my door.

 

[robnisch]

I see this whole mess a case of what you sow......
After over 100 years of funking with Latin American we are get the harvest. Look what Ronie and Nixon did.

Fucking.

 

[steve_bank]

Do you think we, the USA, shold support a never ebding flow of never ending people stepping across the brder and annoucing 'YI am here'.

Unaccompanied children are showing up.


Busing illegals around the country worked. Biden is actually responding.

Criticism of how the crsis is being handled but no oe wants to say the border should be close

The media cherry picks interviews with illegals relating their arduous journey.

I don't think it is intentional cruelty. More like frustration and desperation with what people in the border states are facing.

 

[bigfield]

Do you think we, the USA, shold support a never ebding flow of never ending people stepping across the brder and annoucing 'YI am here'.

Yes.

Unaccompanied children are showing up.

Unaccompanied children show up all over the US. The best thing you can do for them is make sure they get somewhere safe.

Criticism of how the crsis is being handled but no oe wants to say the border should be close

Because it's a really stupid idea.

Closing the border is a solution in search of a problem. What problem is being caused by allowing people to freely travel across it? They aren't increasing the crime rate. They aren't burdening your welfare system. They certainly aren't hurting the economy, if anything the cheap labour they provide is widely sought after.

On top of that, closing the border would be insanely expensive. Why would you burden state and federal budgets, and damage the economy of every state on the border, with this white elephant project?

I don't think it is intentional cruelty. More like frustration and desperation with what people in the border states are facing.

The only problem they're facing is a severe lack of logistical infrastructure serving border towns and cities, and it is entirely self-inflicted.

 

[Gospel]

I dunno. I have mixed feelings about this. Sure Texas & Florida leadership is transporting people for wrong reasons but is this not an opportunity to exploit their evil for the good? What I mean is, now that it's being established that Texas and Florida on their own dime is willing to move immigrants into states that are willing to help, should those states not adjust and prepare to aid them? They should be reaching out to whatever part of the Federal government to change which court room they'd have to make their appearances in so that these immigrants won't miss a single appointment and can hit the ground running in whatever state they're currently in.

I know I'm not saying this right. But I think yawl know what I mean.

 

[bigfield]

I dunno. I have mixed feelings about this. Sure Texas & Florida leadership is transporting people for wrong reasons but is this not an opportunity to exploit their evil for the good? What I mean is, now that it's being established that Texas and Florida on their own dime is willing to move immigrants into states that are willing to help, should those states not adjust and prepare to aid them? They should be reaching out to whatever part of the Federal government to change which court room they'd have to make their appearances in so that these immigrants won't miss a single appointment and can hit the ground running in whatever state they're currently in.

I know I'm not saying this right. But I think yawl know what I mean.

It's worth keeping in mind that these buses are a political stunt, and the governors of those Southern states will only continue to send these buses on their own dime as long as they can derive some political advantage from it.

The arrival of the buses needs to be disruptive. If the migrants arrive at a depot in an orderly and planned fashion and make their way to someplace safe without incident, then the Texas governor is deprived of his chance to strike a blow against a blue state and continue the narrative that these people are a problem. On the contrary: a well organised system of transport connecting border towns to northern cities would expose the lie that the open border is a crisis.

 

[Ford]

Do you think we, the USA, shold support a never ebding flow of never ending people stepping across the brder and annoucing 'YI am here'.

Unaccompanied children are showing up.


Busing illegals around the country worked. Biden is actually responding.

Criticism of how the crsis is being handled but no oe wants to say the border should be close

The media cherry picks interviews with illegals relating their arduous journey.

I don't think it is intentional cruelty. More like frustration and desperation with what people in the border states are facing.

My great grandparents showed up and said "I am here." Then they went to work. They were among millions who arrived on our shores, speaking little or no English, with little or no money, and when you get down to brass tacks, the chief difference is that they were European and they crossed a body of water rather than a desert.

Busing migrants and asylum seekers didn't "work," except to rile up the "base" of DeSantis' and Abbott's voters. Had they spent all those millions of dollars on providing shelter and aid, the migrants would have been better off, but again...the cruelty is the point.

As for "Biden is actually responding," give me a break. Biden visited the border, but that's really just political theater. For some reason people think that if a President doesn't personally make an appearance in El Paso or Nogales, nothing is being done. Biden was VP under Obama, and that administration spent more and did more for border security than Bush before and Trump after. All Trump did was boast about a wall that never got built, and scaremonger about "caravans" and "rapists." I'm going to take a guess and say that - political theater visit aside - the Biden administration is actually working on real solutions rather than just leading chants of "build the wall" and spreading thinly veiled racism.



And again, it is intentional cruelty on the part of Abbott and DeSantis. The latter actually joked and laughed about sending refugees to Martha's Vineyard. He thought it was fucking hilarious. Also, those people had been screwed over another way, by having their ICE hearings scheduled at times and in places where they couldn't possibly have their cases heard. Also, Florida is not a "border" state. DeSantis just joined in "for the lulz."

Texas? Yep. Big border. I used to live on the border, and crossed into Mexico on a weekly basis. Abbott is not only cruel, he's a whiny little bitch and a terrible governor. Under his watch there has been a disastrous response to the failing power grid and natural disasters, and no response at all to multiple mass shootings. Actually there was a response...he made it EASIER to get guns! Republicans have been in charge of that state since I lived there (mid 90s) and yet every election they run on "having solutions for the people of Texas." Motherfucker, you are the PROBLEM, not the solution. Once more, if Abbott had spent the state's resources on providing shelter, aid, and transportation to the people crossing the border rather than loudly loading them onto buses, it might have helped, and instead of working AGAINST the federal government because he has a sad that Trump lost, he should work WITH the current administration. He's not. He's just being a dick.

 

[Gospel]

I dunno. I have mixed feelings about this. Sure Texas & Florida leadership is transporting people for wrong reasons but is this not an opportunity to exploit their evil for the good? What I mean is, now that it's being established that Texas and Florida on their own dime is willing to move immigrants into states that are willing to help, should those states not adjust and prepare to aid them? They should be reaching out to whatever part of the Federal government to change which court room they'd have to make their appearances in so that these immigrants won't miss a single appointment and can hit the ground running in whatever state they're currently in.

I know I'm not saying this right. But I think yawl know what I mean.

It's worth keeping in mind that these buses are a political stunt, and the governors of those Southern states will only continue to send these buses on their own dime as long as they can derive some political advantage from it.

The arrival of the buses needs to be disruptive. If the migrants arrive at a depot in an orderly and planned fashion and make their way to someplace safe without incident, then the Texas governor is deprived of his chance to strike a blow against a blue state and continue the narrative that these people are a problem. On the contrary: a well organised system of transport connecting border towns to northern cities would expose the lie that the open border is a crisis.

When they quit doing it because they don't see the benefits anymore then states that want to help can say, "hey bro relax, we'll do it on our dime; just send the receipt." Texas and Florida will either stop and claim "See? They want open borders!" &/or oblige. They're already doing the former so who gives a shit. The end result is we change the way we do things so that it's easier to process these people by allowing any court to pick up where another left off. Maybe even build partnerships between states where "sanctuary states" can move people between each other when it's more beneficial to the immigrants (since it's been established by Texas and Florida that moving people between states is just fine).

I don't know the details so I'm just talking out of my ass in response to the narrative around immigration I keep hearing. The law enforcement aspect is to be supported as well. Some Immigrants (just like many Americans) are just flat out bad and need to be locked up & deported where the law allows. The reality about immigration overall IMO is that we (America) want to help make the world a better place for everyone. It's not going to be easy, as it will take a healthy balance of compassion and indifference towards those who don't value that compassion.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

You know what'd be funny? When the Texas Governor goes on a trip, to find and destroy his wheelchair and then he has to crawl around in order to get somewhere. That'd be hilarious!

Wait... no... that'd be dehumanizing. And cruel. Exploiting somebody's weakness for kicks is repugnant.

 

[Elixir]

Wait... no... that'd be dehumanizing.

Yabut, the ratings!

 

[Toni]

I dunno. I have mixed feelings about this. Sure Texas & Florida leadership is transporting people for wrong reasons but is this not an opportunity to exploit their evil for the good? What I mean is, now that it's being established that Texas and Florida on their own dime is willing to move immigrants into states that are willing to help, should those states not adjust and prepare to aid them? They should be reaching out to whatever part of the Federal government to change which court room they'd have to make their appearances in so that these immigrants won't miss a single appointment and can hit the ground running in whatever state they're currently in.

I know I'm not saying this right. But I think yawl know what I mean.

It's false to believe that every state does not receive immigrants. Yes, there is a bigger flow of immigrants from Mexico and points south from states which border Mexico--which includes California, Arizona and New Mexico, not just Texas.
My small town is hosting a number of immigrants from South America, for instance. I've lived here for over 30 years and ESL classes in the public schools predates my residency. We've always had immigrants not associated with the university. So have a lot of places. Sending immigrants to Kamala Harris's residence in Washington DC was a huge joke. DC is extremely international.

YES it is an extra burden on social services, school districts, etc. when people without good language skills move into an area. It's also a source of cheap, exploitable labor. If we really, really want to slow the flow of immigrants into the US, we need to:
1. Enforce minimum wage of $15/hr across all industries, including agriculture and food service. HEAVY penalties for employers who violate this.
2. Promote peace and prosperity in countries south of the US-Mexico border
3. Do something serious and real about the US drug problem. It's a scourge on our population and on the population of all countries with drug problems, either consumption or production.

 

[Gospel]

It's false to believe that every state does not receive immigrants. Yes, there is a bigger flow of immigrants from Mexico and points south from states which border Mexico--which includes California, Arizona and New Mexico, not just Texas.

Didn't intend to insinuate such. I do believe that immigrants should have the ability to move around the country (with or without aid) while not missing a step towards naturalization. I see it for the shared responsibility it is regardless of how anti immigration some citizens and state representatives are. Florida and Texas (I'm using as an example because they're the source of the topic) seemed to have signaled that those on the anti immigration team are ok with immigrants being moved from state to state. So we should take this opportunity and use "their idea" to improve immigration at least in the getting them to a place most suitable for their needs goes. Maybe one state that is immigrant friendly is less inundated than another and with the precedent seemingly set by Texas and Florida, one state can move people (with their consent) to another state that can better help them.

Edit: In other words while it is wrong and does negatively effect resources, the focus should be on encouraging Texas and Florida's to properly transport immigrants to a place more helpful rather than solely focusing on law suits and punishment for what they did. I think immigrants would benefit more

 

[Toni]

It's false to believe that every state does not receive immigrants. Yes, there is a bigger flow of immigrants from Mexico and points south from states which border Mexico--which includes California, Arizona and New Mexico, not just Texas.

Didn't intend to insinuate such. I do believe that immigrants should have the ability to move around the country (with or without aid) while not missing a step towards naturalization. I see it for the shared responsibility it is regardless of how anti immigration some citizens and state representatives are. Florida and Texas (I'm using as an example because they're the source of the topic) seemed to have signaled that those on the anti immigration team are ok with immigrants being moved from state to state. So we should take this opportunity and use "their idea" to improve immigration at least in the getting them to a place most suitable for their needs goes. Maybe one state that is immigrant friendly is less inundated than another and with the precedent seemingly set by Texas and Florida, one state can move people (with their consent) to another state that can better help them.

Edit: In other words while it is wrong and does negatively effect resources, the focus should be on encouraging Texas and Florida's to properly transport immigrants to a place more helpful rather than solely focusing on law suits and punishment for what they did. I think immigrants would benefit more

I didn’t mean to imply that you didn’t realize immigrants were everywhere, so sorry about that.

I also think immigrants should not be moved to other states against their will. There are reasons immigrants choose where they move: familiarity and friends/family/fellow nationals in the area is a comfort and makes the transition easier. It also does come with some problems as well. It IS an extra burden on schools and other social services that federal funding does not completely alleviate. Eliminating the need for adults to learn English because they are surrounded by so many native speakers if their first language makes initial settling easier but ultimately impedes immigrants from being able to fully participate in citizenship of their newly adopted country.

Poverty also creates a burden on local communities as people must rely on food shelves and other charitable concerns for basic living needs.

I can understand why communities might feel overwhelmed by large numbers of immigrants and why there might be resentment as proportionally large numbers of ‘outsiders’ can change the character of a community. Cheap labor forces wages down for everyone. Poverty leads to distressed and overcrowded housing. Which also drags down other property values.

I know there are other issues, aside from bigotry and isolationism. Those are just issues that leap out at me—and ones I think the federal government might be able to alleviate by doing more to fund educational and jobs training needs of immigrants, alleviating housing needs and helping to offset the extra burden on social services.

We could also do more to help temporary workers, those who wish to work in the US but not establish residency.