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The Dangers of American Fascism

We are not fascist not even close.

When the people have no voice in government, no say in government, it is fascism.

When a government is at war without end it is fascism.

Live in your fantasy world if you must but the US is an example of fascism with a few remaining elections that are meaningless.

When the talk show hosts can constantly mock the President without fear of government retribution it is fascism. When the President promotes the right of citizens be keep and bear arms it is fascism. When state governments can sue the President and the federal government in court to stop a government policy it is fascism. When the government cuts thousands of regulations it is fascism. Oh, wait. No it's not.

So you think having no power to influence the government but being able to mock those with power makes something less than fascism?

What a naive child!

In American fascism the president is a figure head that answers to the needs of big business.

It is not Italian fascism. It is American fascism.

The people can complain all they want. But they can't do anything else.
 
We are not fascist not even close. Read the entire link. People hurl fascist as a pejorative without understanding what it meant historically.

While Trump plays to segment with populism and nationalism we are harley regimented with enforced conformity and allegiance associated with historical fascism.

Trump is authoritarian. He demands personal allegiance from those around him to an extreme, but that is not fascism. He believes he always knows best and attacks those who disagree.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism.

Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of radical authoritarian ultranationalism,[1][2][3][4] characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and strong regimentation of society and of the economy,[5] which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.[6] The first fascist movements emerged in Italy during World War I before it spread to other European countries.[6] Opposed to liberalism, Marxism and anarchism, fascism is placed on the far-right within the traditional left–right spectrum.[6][7][8][9][10][11]

https://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/nazi-germany/the-fuehrer-principle/

Hitler is Germany and Germany is Hitler. Whatever he does is necessary. Whatever he does is successful. Clearly the Führer has divine blessing.”

The Führer Principle required everyone in Nazi Germany to accept that Hitler had all the solutions to Germany’s problems

Trump is saying fascist things. It's like he's testing the waters. To see what he can get away with. Fascism is like a teenager in that sense. In their heads they're always the underdog fighting the more powerful. Eventually they need to make up oppressors. Fascism is a sliding scale. Trump is actually well on the way towards bad things
 
We are not fascist not even close.

When the people have no voice in government, no say in government, it is fascismtotalitarianism.
FIFY

Totalitarianism is just another word for dictatorship.

In the US the government is not a dictatorship.

But the thing that controls the government, big business, is a bunch of dictatorships.

The government is under the sway of competing dictators making promises. Con men.
 
Trump is saying fascist things. It's like he's testing the waters. To see what he can get away with.
That is the part that really worries me. Trump is an incompetent idiot, but he is still getting away with a lot for the moment. Once smart fascists see how far he can go they can try again with a better leader.
 
Trump is saying fascist things. It's like he's testing the waters. To see what he can get away with.
That is the part that really worries me. Trump is an incompetent idiot, but he is still getting away with a lot for the moment. Once smart fascists see how far he can go they can try again with a better leader.

Meh.. Fascism is fundamentally stupid. I don't think smart fascist leaders exist
 
I'll throw this into this this discussion:
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/taibbi-bernie-sanders-banks-732633/
The first major move on this front was the Riegle-Neal Interstate Banking and Branching Efficiency Act of 1994. This law torpedoed restrictions on opening bank branches across state lines. These rules dated back to the McFadden Act of 1927, passed specifically with the idea of preventing financial concentration.
this is a snippet from the article but, yeah, hate on Bernie all you like if you are so inclined, just don't say he's wrong.
In 1929 the U.S. had 30,000 banks. 10,000 went bankrupt during the Depression. In 1929 Canada had 10 banks. 0 went bankrupt during the Depression. Restrictions on opening bank branches across state lines are nothing but an Incompetent Banker Full Employment Act. Banks need to be big to survive runs from panicking depositors and to diversify to reduce their exposure to problems in local economies. Insisting that banks be small and local is exactly as idiotically self-destructive as insisting that insurance companies be small and local. Bernie was wrong.

I see your point. But what happens when a big bank is mis-managed? In a normal free market economy, that bank should go out of business and the other well managed banks will pick up the market share. But that can not happen if a bank is too big to fail. All that happens is what we saw during 2008 when poor management gave themselves bonuses and bailouts for bad decisions.

And even worse than that. The scum that caused the whole calamity are still in positions to do the same thing again.
 
Pure free market capitalism in the long run would work by supply and demand. But it would be brutal reching true equilibrium. Population would dynamically adjust.

We have never had pure laissez-faire free market capitalism in this country. Close to it in the 19th century during the westward migration. Break a leg or a cut gets infected, you die. A mines closes and you are out of luck.

The bank you own fails and your customers are screwed. They may hang you but they can not recover losses.

Big auto including secondary and tertiary markets are a big part of the econmy. If they were not bailed out it could have been catastrophic.
 
We are not fascist not even close.

When the people have no voice in government, no say in government, it is fascismtotalitarianism.
FIFY

People do have a voice, that is why Trump got elected.The founders did not want POTUS to be elected by popular vote. Andrew Jackson was the first to make a national to the people campaign.People keep elcting the same kind of people to congress.

As to Trump saying fascist things, I listened to some of Obama's less covered speeches. Anti capitalism at heart. At least initially. He appeared to change over time.

Al Franken in a speech was a ball bearing far left slogan hurler. Somewhere well beyond progressive.

It is everywhere, not just Trump. Trump is more blatant and open.

Some of the characterizations of republicans by democrats is just as ugly as Trump, before jump was on the scene. Spend some time listening to MSNBC. Progressives just as squirelly as conservatives. The term for wacky left is moonbat, flip side of wingnut.

Today I am far more worried about the rise of intolerance by progressives than I am of the right.

Take a balanced view.
 
In 1929 the U.S. had 30,000 banks. 10,000 went bankrupt during the Depression. In 1929 Canada had 10 banks. 0 went bankrupt during the Depression. Restrictions on opening bank branches across state lines are nothing but an Incompetent Banker Full Employment Act. Banks need to be big to survive runs from panicking depositors and to diversify to reduce their exposure to problems in local economies. Insisting that banks be small and local is exactly as idiotically self-destructive as insisting that insurance companies be small and local. Bernie was wrong.

I see your point. But what happens when a big bank is mis-managed? In a normal free market economy, that bank should go out of business and the other well managed banks will pick up the market share. But that can not happen if a bank is too big to fail. All that happens is what we saw during 2008 when poor management gave themselves bonuses and bailouts for bad decisions.

And even worse than that. The scum that caused the whole calamity are still in positions to do the same thing again.

Well, hundreds and hundreds of poorly managed banks did go out of business or were shut down in the 2008-9. If the government hadn't helped the larger banks, IMO the one that would have gone out of business was BofA and maybe Chase. If that had happened, it would have caused chaos and a lot of FDIC payout for deposits. But we would have survived. The other banks who were better managed (US Bank, Beal, Wells Fargo, and etc.) would have slowly picked up the slack. The larger issue is that this would have blunted our recovery. Obama implemented TARP in order to restore faith in the financial system and speed up the recovery. I think that history will be very favorable for this decision.
 
In 1929 the U.S. had 30,000 banks. 10,000 went bankrupt during the Depression. In 1929 Canada had 10 banks. 0 went bankrupt during the Depression. Restrictions on opening bank branches across state lines are nothing but an Incompetent Banker Full Employment Act. Banks need to be big to survive runs from panicking depositors and to diversify to reduce their exposure to problems in local economies. Insisting that banks be small and local is exactly as idiotically self-destructive as insisting that insurance companies be small and local. Bernie was wrong.

I see your point. But what happens when a big bank is mis-managed? In a normal free market economy, that bank should go out of business and the other well managed banks will pick up the market share. But that can not happen if a bank is too big to fail. All that happens is what we saw during 2008 when poor management gave themselves bonuses and bailouts for bad decisions.

And even worse than that. The scum that caused the whole calamity are still in positions to do the same thing again.

Well, hundreds and hundreds of poorly managed banks did go out of business or were shut down in the 2008-9. If the government hadn't helped the larger banks, IMO the one that would have gone out of business was BofA and maybe Chase. If that had happened, it would have caused chaos and a lot of FDIC payout for deposits. But we would have survived. The other banks who were better managed (US Bank, Beal, Wells Fargo, and etc.) would have slowly picked up the slack. The larger issue is that this would have blunted our recovery. Obama implemented TARP in order to restore faith in the financial system and speed up the recovery. I think that history will be very favorable for this decision.

I think it was an insurance company bailout - AIG - where everyone realized that we need a plan for this or everything is going to come down. And ironically it was George W. Bush that implemented TARP, something he doesn't seem to get very much credit for.

eta: Another thing that doesn't get much attention is the fact that it wasn't just a bailout. It was a loan program for liquidity purposes, and almost all of the loans were paid back with interest.

aa
 
Well, hundreds and hundreds of poorly managed banks did go out of business or were shut down in the 2008-9. If the government hadn't helped the larger banks, IMO the one that would have gone out of business was BofA and maybe Chase. If that had happened, it would have caused chaos and a lot of FDIC payout for deposits. But we would have survived. The other banks who were better managed (US Bank, Beal, Wells Fargo, and etc.) would have slowly picked up the slack. The larger issue is that this would have blunted our recovery. Obama implemented TARP in order to restore faith in the financial system and speed up the recovery. I think that history will be very favorable for this decision.

I think it was an insurance company bailout - AIG - where everyone realized that we need a plan for this or everything is going to come down. And ironically it was George W. Bush that implemented TARP, something he doesn't seem to get very much credit for.

eta: Another thing that doesn't get much attention is the fact that it wasn't just a bailout. It was a loan program for liquidity purposes, and almost all of the loans were paid back with interest.

aa

Yes, you're right. Although I give Obama some credit for continuing the program. Just because one benefical program or treaty is started by one president is no guaranty that it won't be overturned by an idiot next president (ie: Trump). BTW: I've said it a million times that Bush's reputation will improve over time due to Trump!
 
In 1929 the U.S. had 30,000 banks. 10,000 went bankrupt during the Depression. In 1929 Canada had 10 banks. 0 went bankrupt during the Depression. Restrictions on opening bank branches across state lines are nothing but an Incompetent Banker Full Employment Act. Banks need to be big to survive runs from panicking depositors and to diversify to reduce their exposure to problems in local economies. Insisting that banks be small and local is exactly as idiotically self-destructive as insisting that insurance companies be small and local. Bernie was wrong.

I see your point. But what happens when a big bank is mis-managed? In a normal free market economy, that bank should go out of business and the other well managed banks will pick up the market share. But that can not happen if a bank is too big to fail. All that happens is what we saw during 2008 when poor management gave themselves bonuses and bailouts for bad decisions.

And even worse than that. The scum that caused the whole calamity are still in positions to do the same thing again.
Yes, bailouts reduce short-term pain, but at the cost of teaching investors and managers to expect them and plan accordingly. How to best trade off those considerations is a question for a higher-level economist than anyone on this forum. But there's no conflict between the "don't let banks take advantage of being too big to fail" and the "don't make banks be too small" policies -- there's plenty of room in the middle for an economy with a lot of big banks and no super-sized ones, or alternately an economy with a lot of free-wheeling middle-sized banks and a few heavily regulated giants.

Well, hundreds and hundreds of poorly managed banks did go out of business or were shut down in the 2008-9. If the government hadn't helped the larger banks, IMO the one that would have gone out of business was BofA and maybe Chase. If that had happened, it would have caused chaos and a lot of FDIC payout for deposits. But we would have survived. The other banks who were better managed (US Bank, Beal, Wells Fargo, and etc.) would have slowly picked up the slack. The larger issue is that this would have blunted our recovery. Obama implemented TARP in order to restore faith in the financial system and speed up the recovery. I think that history will be very favorable for this decision.
Another point to keep in mind is that "fail" and "go out of business" are not the same thing. "In a normal free market economy, that bank should go out of business and the other well managed banks will pick up the market share. But that can not happen if a bank is too big to fail.", true; but "too big to fail" is a choice, not a natural phenomenon we have to just put up with. The way a normal free market economy would deal with a BofA failure is bankruptcy court. This is what bankruptcy is for. The shareholders' investments are wiped out and the uninsured creditors get pennies on the dollar, but that doesn't mean 4600 branches, a mountain's worth of computers, and 200,000 employees have to cease operations. The uninsured creditors and the insurer now owns those branches and computers, and the creditors now employ all those tellers and accountants, and they're free to continue operations themselves, or find a buyer, or sell off whatever they can in pieces. If a way can be found to keep the bank running, or most of it, then where's the harm in "letting BofA go out of business" as the saying goes, when all that actually went out of business is a legal fiction, BofA Corporation, which is just going to be promptly replaced by the very similar First National Bank of BofA Creditors, Inc.? Same assets, same customers, same low-level employees, same middle management, new top management, new shareholders.

And if the government thinks TARP is a better approach than bankruptcy, because of the ripple effects of "pennies on the dollar" on somebody who unwisely lent a billion dollars to BofA, the government is free to volunteer to be the buyer that the creditors sell BofA to, and to pay off the creditors exactly as much more than the "normal free market economy" price of BofA's unsecured D-rated debt that government economists calculate is optimal to restore faith in the financial system, speed up the recovery, and not create too much moral hazard from letting poor management give themselves bonuses. To the overall financial system that would look an awful lot like a TARP bailout, except that the shareholders and the top executives of BofA would all have been replaced. I'm not sure what the upside of keeping those guys in the picture was supposed to be; I hope Bush/Greenspan/Obama et al knew what they were doing and had a good reason. The point is, assuming we faced a stark choice between a classic bailout and BofA shutting down and leaving all its customers and creditors in the lurch is a false dilemma. There's a continuous spectrum of options in between the extremes.
 
Trump was elected contrary to the desires of the majority of voters.

The largest voting bloc of them all was those who did not vote for president, so therefore you are completely right for once.

People who do not vote are not voters.
You're completely right regardless of whether we count non-voters. Trump was elected contrary to the desires even of the majority of Republicans. Awarding delegates in the primaries by plurality is idiotic. If only primaries used proportional representation or instant runoff or Condorcet or another of the various reasonable systems invented more recently than the bloody 1700s, Trump would never have been the nominee.
 
People who do not vote do influence the election. They compress the demographic. They're essentially giving away more power to those who do vote. That's doing something. People who don't vote as a way to protest the system are childish.
 
When the talk show hosts can constantly mock the President without fear of government retribution it is fascism.

I can't tell if you're being facetious, or what.
I CAN tell that when a president conflates an attack on him and/or his actions/performance with an attack on the Country, it's a bright red flashing warning signal that says "FASCISM AHEAD!"
 
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