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The Democratic Party (and media) are going after Bernie

Koyaanisqatsi said:
"Know for sure"? What does that even mean and where did I claim absolute surety? I said it was clear and non-controversial. Non-controversial in this context means not unexpected.
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Non-controversial doesn't mean unexpected. It means that there is no controversy over it. The discussion about it here disproves that claim.
And you made a categorical claim that Bernie can't win, not something weaker like "he is less likely to win than Biden". I expect a certain degree of certainty when somebody makes such a categorical claim.

Once again, for anyone who actually understands American politics, the fact that he is Jewish--and comes across as a "New York Jew" in particular--is a serious problem across ALL demographics, regardless of party affiliation and that's just right out of the gate, not accounting for his policy proposals. That means that there is going to be--not might be, but already exists--a certain percentage of Democrats that will simply not vote for him.
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Same goes for Obama (black) and Hillary (a woman). Same went for Kennedy (Catholic). Should we only run white Anglo-Saxon Protestant men in perpetuity because some fraction of voters might not like X?

This is precisely why Putin targeted primarily minorities in order to suppress their vote.
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Russian propaganda stoking #BLM discontent was a stroke of evil genius, but I do not see how it hurts only Sanders.

Hence, why, once again, among people who understand American politics, it is both clear and non-controversial to state that he can't beat Trump.
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Because he is Jewish? Really? In 2008 you probably made a similar argument about how Obama "can't beat" WASPy McCain.
At most you are arguing that his ethnoreligious affiliation would make it harder for him to win than say Biden. That may or may not be true (I think his ideology is a much bigger hurdle than ethnicity or religion) but it doesn't translate into impossibility. And your analysis is directly contradicted by head-to-head polling, which shows Bernie doing comparably or better against Trump than other front-runners.


Once again, he could NOT beat Hillary.
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And yet HE DID beat Hillary. Says a lot about your assessment of what is possible or not.
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[Koyaanisqatsi, ca. 2020, colorized]

Do you not understand what a popular vote measures? It's right there in the title.
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Yes. I also understand what it doesn't measure. Namely, it doesn't measure WHO WON THE ELECTION. You need the ELECTORAL VOTE for that.
 
Yes, if you look at the 2016 map, Trump won 30 states and Hilary won 20 states.

It should be based on states. But, the Dems can cheer claiming they won the popular vote while they lose the Presidency. Same thing cold happen again. Suppose Bernie wins the popular vote but Trump wins the Presidency. The Dems will claim a victory and brag and boast because they won the popular vote. Meanwhile Trump stays in office.

It's like a team in football who lost by 3 points against a good team and claim "we got a moral victory today. We thought we would get blown out!"
 
Half-Life said:
It's like a team in football who lost by 3 points against a good team and claim "we got a moral victory today. We thought we would get blown out!"
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No it's like a team scored 3 more points and lost because the other team had more completions.
 
Treedbear said:
ZiprHead said:
Treedbear said:
she has good intentions.
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So you're one of those damned Hillary supporters now.
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That's hardly an endorsement but it's more than she just gave to Bernie. I'd be glad to support Hillary if nominated as Pres or VP but I think she's not a wise choice in the primaries compared with the other candidates. Too bad we don't have ranked choice voting. That's the only way a multiple candidate race can be expected to reflect what the voters really want.
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Ranked choice voting should be the way, I completely agree.

And all the talk of "we need to support our candidate" and "we must have unity" etc is exposed as hot air when Hillary doesn't immediately say she'd support Sanders in a general election against Trump. She has to say she's not ready to answer that yet and take a day to say ya she would? Really? Remember this is the same lady who also said she was staying in the race just in case Obama was assassinated.

Yes, she does have a habbit of saying things that can easily expose her or give a false bad image of her. She managed to lose an election to Trump... which is really all that needs to be said. Koy will continuously beat the drum that she beat Trump in the popular vote, but of course that's not how the elections are decided in that country, and a ham sandwich or empty stage would have beaten Trump by enough for all Hillary's excuses not to matter.
 
Patooka said:
Half-Life said:
It's like a team in football who lost by 3 points against a good team and claim "we got a moral victory today. We thought we would get blown out!"
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No it's like a team scored 3 more points and lost because the other team had more completions.
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It's a team with less points talking about how they got more total yardage. It's an interesting stat, but not how you win football
 
And here's the latest...

DES MOINES, Iowa — Former Secretary of State John Kerry — one of Joe Biden's highest-profile endorsers — was overheard Sunday on the phone at a Des Moines hotel explaining what he would have to do to enter the presidential race amid "the possibility of Bernie Sanders taking down the Democratic Party — down whole."

Sitting in the lobby restaurant of the Renaissance Savery hotel, Kerry was overheard by an NBC News analyst saying "maybe I'm f---ing deluding myself here" and explaining that to run, he'd have to step down from the board of Bank of America and give up his ability to make paid speeches. Kerry said donors like venture capitalist Doug Hickey would have to "raise a couple of million," adding that such donors "now have the reality of Bernie."
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https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1128476
 
Don2 (Don1 Revised) said:
And here's the latest...

DES MOINES, Iowa — Former Secretary of State John Kerry — one of Joe Biden's highest-profile endorsers — was overheard Sunday on the phone at a Des Moines hotel explaining what he would have to do to enter the presidential race amid "the possibility of Bernie Sanders taking down the Democratic Party — down whole."

Sitting in the lobby restaurant of the Renaissance Savery hotel, Kerry was overheard by an NBC News analyst saying "maybe I'm f---ing deluding myself here" and explaining that to run, he'd have to step down from the board of Bank of America and give up his ability to make paid speeches. Kerry said donors like venture capitalist Doug Hickey would have to "raise a couple of million," adding that such donors "now have the reality of Bernie."
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https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1128476
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It will be a crazy and fascinating and brutal chain of events if Bernie emerges as the clear front runner and nominee-apparent. The Clintons, Biden, Kerry, and other corporate Democrats will stop at nothing to stop Bernie. I believe at this point that they fear President Sanders more than President Trump.
 
Jolly_Penguin said:
Don2 (Don1 Revised) said:
And here's the latest...

DES MOINES, Iowa — Former Secretary of State John Kerry — one of Joe Biden's highest-profile endorsers — was overheard Sunday on the phone at a Des Moines hotel explaining what he would have to do to enter the presidential race amid "the possibility of Bernie Sanders taking down the Democratic Party — down whole."

Sitting in the lobby restaurant of the Renaissance Savery hotel, Kerry was overheard by an NBC News analyst saying "maybe I'm f---ing deluding myself here" and explaining that to run, he'd have to step down from the board of Bank of America and give up his ability to make paid speeches. Kerry said donors like venture capitalist Doug Hickey would have to "raise a couple of million," adding that such donors "now have the reality of Bernie."
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https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1128476
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It will be a crazy and fascinating and brutal chain of events if Bernie emerges as the clear front runner and nominee-apparent. The Clintons, Biden, Kerry, and other corporate Democrats will stop at nothing to stop Bernie. I believe at this point that they fear President Sanders more than President Trump.
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Not nearly as much as Trump. At least a President Sanders would respect the law. That has to be our starting point. Without that, there's nothing. After that there is maintaining the center, keeping the lunatic fringe out of office and further dividing us. See, while there may be some truth to the "corporate Democrats" thing, there first has to be a stable nation to exploit. The herd needs to be docile, not in a panic.


Oh by the way,

Article said:
Sitting in the lobby restaurant of the Renaissance Savery hotel, Kerry was overheard by an NBC News analyst
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Because John Kerry has yet to figure out, him sitting in a hotel lobby in Iowa days before the caucus, no one from the news could possibly be milling about trying to listen in on his phone conversation.
 
Kerry has already clarified that he isn't going to run. He said he was explaining to someone why he had no plans to run. Why do these stupid reporters over react when they hear a few words of a phone conversation, while having no idea what was said on the other end of the phone call, and without knowing all of the content of the entire conversation.

Meanwhile, Trump is already tweeting that Bernie is a communist. I guess socialist just wasn't scary enough. If Bernie becomes the nominee, y'all know that all of his baggage is going to come out in the open. If you think that all the positive things he has said about communist dictators in the distant past aren't going to hurt him, they you're not dealing with reality. I will vote for him if I must, but I am very pissed off at all the Bernie supporters who are clinging to the my way or the highway childish mentality. A vote against whoever becomes the nominee, is a vote for Trump afaic.
 
The pivot from calling him a socialist to a communist is extremely good and shows their desperation. It also shows they have nothing against Sanders they haven't tried against every other Democrat in Congress (Nancy Pelosi has laughably been called a communist on multiple occasions by the right wing).

The John Kerry thing is just depressing. The Democratic party has no plan to stop Bernie and no coherent ideological agenda, and so are unable to unite behind a single non-Bernie candidate who appeals to more people than he does. They don't have faith in their own ideas in part because they don't have any ideas. What Kerry refers to as "the possibility of Bernie Sanders taking down the Democratic Party — down whole" is exactly what is happening, and what needs to happen if any progress is to be made in the hellworld the United States has become.
 
Primaries typically don't matter as much when a local wins. New Hampshire isn't as meaningful as Iowa for Sanders.
 
Iowa is a joke, when it comes to the primaries. It's one of the least diverse states in the country and voting by caucus is crazy. People who work late shifts can't even be included. It's time to ignore Iowa, regardless of who is popular there. Iowa needs to vote like the rest of us.

It would be best if all states had primaries on the same day or at least within a few weeks of each other. My sister lives in NJ. NJ doesn't have its primary until late May. So, unless the race is extremely close, the voters in the NJ primaries are pretty much left out.
 
I think if people disagree, they can set out to change the rules in 2024, not in the middle of the game.....and especially not by "breaking the law" like what the NY Times opinion piece suggested. I mean seriously? Aren't we trying to convince the populace that the Democrats are the party of ethics and rule of law?
 
southernhybrid said:
I will vote for him if I must, but I am very pissed off at all the Bernie supporters who are clinging to the my way or the highway childish mentality. A vote against whoever becomes the nominee, is a vote for Trump afaic.
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A number of those Bernie supporters don't agree with your assessment of Trump. Some of them voted for Trump in 2016. He along with Yang has the highest cross over appeal. He's taken some independents and previous non-voters as well, who won't vote for any other Democrat (nor for Trump) because they are not convinced any of them are different from one another. You (and I) find that nuts, but its the case. Bernie (and Yang) make sense to vote for because your blue no matter who people will vote blue no matter who,and these candidates have the best chance at getting the others who won't.
 
PyramidHead said:
The John Kerry thing is just depressing. The Democratic party has no plan to stop Bernie and no coherent ideological agenda, and so are unable to unite behind a single non-Bernie candidate who appeals to more people than he does. They don't have faith in their own ideas in part because they don't have any ideas. What Kerry refers to as "the possibility of Bernie Sanders taking down the Democratic Party — down whole" is exactly what is happening, and what needs to happen if any progress is to be made in the hellworld the United States has become.
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I agree. The party does need to be reformed in the shape of progressive policy and without all the Clintoncrat insider corruption and corporatism. Then you may actually have a battle in America between left and right, instead of right and far-right.
 
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