The Democratic Party has attractive positions for moderate republicians/center right voters

[bilby]

That's good, unless you are going to bring up American ritualistic animal sacrifices at Thanksgiving, Xmas, and Easter.

Well, we all have to learn to make sacrifices.

 

[bilby]

lets just say the video is a total fake. How do you explain so many Haitians settling in one particular place magically coming with housing, transportation, and food?

The obvious explanation is that they settled in one place because immigrants usually do that - people are attracted to places where there are shops selling their favourite foods, churches for their own denomination, and people who speak their native language and dialect. They are also attracted to places where jobs are available.

And that place magically comes with housing, transportation and food, because magical lies are easy and expected in videos that are totally fake.

Do you have any evidence, NOT from total fakery, to suggest that the vast majority of Springfield's Haitian community did not obtain their housing, transportation, and food by the rather banal and obvious non-magical process of getting a job and buying those things with their wages?

 

[Derec]

In Australia, the pets eat the illegal aliens.

Could you please send us a couple of thousand to deploy on our southern border?

 

[bilby]

And suspiciously a LOT of success over the existing indigenous people in such a short amount of time.

Are there a lot of Native Americans in Springfield?

And wtf does 'success over' your neighbour even mean? If my neighbour drives a newer car than me, is that doing me a shred of harm? Is he having "success over" me? Why would I be covetous or jealous of his hard work and/or good fortune?

I might go ask him if he can check with his boss whether there might be a similarly lucrative job for me... Or perhaps he just decided to buy an expensive car, while I chose an overseas vacation instead, and he's actually no better off than I am. His priorities are likely different from mine.

 

[bilby]

The last time the US oligarchy imported cheap labor in this country at such a massive scale was when slaves of Africa were shipped into the new world. How did that work out long term for the US??

Well, the country went from being an agrarian backwater collection of bickering colonies on the margins of the world, threatened with re-capture by the global colossus of the British Empire, and trying to recover from being used by that empire as a dumping ground for criminals, to being the only superpower in history, with a world dominating high technology economy, per capita wealth higher than ever before seen in all of human history, and life expectancy almost double what it was in 1776.

So, on the whole, it seems it didn't work out very well at all.

 

[bilby]

You have a propensity of believing outlandish lies you get from social media and exotic other sites online. So please, stop with your issues with lies. The borders aren't wide open. We are not being invaded. Stop believing the bullshit you are exposing yourself to.

Sorry but when a small city in Ohio suddenly increases by 20,000 new comers, the borders are open. That's not propaganda thats just reality.

What an insanely irrational definition. Hatians have been legally immigrating to the US since the 1980s. None of this is a secret.

We are a nation of immigrants. Do you know nothing of our history of immigration? Allowing some number of immigrants to the country is not "open borders" by any sane definition.

Do you have the same xenophobic worries about white immigrants moving to a city? Where is your outrage about the Irish quarter in Boston? They even display the Irish flag on their pubs and even their houses, the unpatriotic scum. Or if you want a smaller town, how about Scituate, MA which has 61.5% of its people of Irish ancestry.

Or do you only fear the blacks?

I don't fear any race. I fear the politicians who claim they have no responsibility to fix a broken border when they have no problem at all fixing borders for other countries. I fear their dishonesty more than any other.

Are you aware that Haiti doesn't have a border with the US?

Haiti is on an island; Their only international border is with the Dominican Republic.

 

[bilby]

I used to actually contribute to the democrats before becoming an independent which I am now.

No, you aren't.

Lots of bolted-on Trump supporters call themselves 'independent'. They aren't fooling anyone but themselves.

 

[bilby]

Then why do all the countries in the world have borders?

Because that's what defines them as countries. Duh.

 

[bilby]

Back before the civil war the oligarchy were the plantation owners. Today it is the billionaire capitalist class who control our government to their benefit.

You mean people like Donald Trump and Elon Musk?

 

[Swammerdami]

Why don't we accept immigration now?

Then why do all the countries in the world have borders?

Hell, you say everyone is a legal person so why do we need front doors on our homes, fences around our property, and even bars on windows sometimes. If you can honestly come to answer some of those questions you will realize why every country has borders and why sovereignty is important.

You may also come to realize why many wars get started and people die for their territory as well.

Your message here is confused. What does "legal person" mean to you, and what do protective measures like doors (and locks?) have to do with the price of bananas? No one here is advocating CRIME, but YOU seem so drenched in ignorance and prejudice as to be unaware that immigrants, documented or not, commit fewer crimes than native-born Americans.

Immigration has been normal since time immemorial. Japan discourages immigration; this is one of the causes of their economic stagnation. Ninety years ago Germany emphasized racial purity -- is this your agenda @RVonse ? -- but that led to frowned-upon behavior. The U.S.A. in particular was built by immigrants. 150 years ago Irish Catholics came to the country in large numbers and were hated; now they are happy to join in the hatred against newer newcomers.

Many people like to blame their woes on "immigrants." (And I suppose some of the immigrants are studs named Chad who are getting the hot young women coveted by white males born in the USA. )

 

[Patooka]

You have a propensity of believing outlandish lies you get from social media and exotic other sites online. So please, stop with your issues with lies. The borders aren't wide open. We are not being invaded. Stop believing the bullshit you are exposing yourself to.

Sorry but when a small city in Ohio suddenly increases by 20,000 new comers, the borders are open. That's not propaganda thats just reality.

What an insanely irrational definition. Hatians have been legally immigrating to the US since the 1980s. None of this is a secret.

We are a nation of immigrants. Do you know nothing of our history of immigration? Allowing some number of immigrants to the country is not "open borders" by any sane definition.

Do you have the same xenophobic worries about white immigrants moving to a city? Where is your outrage about the Irish quarter in Boston? They even display the Irish flag on their pubs and even their houses, the unpatriotic scum. Or if you want a smaller town, how about Scituate, MA which has 61.5% of its people of Irish ancestry.

Or do you only fear the blacks?

I don't fear any race. I fear the politicians who claim they have no responsibility to fix a broken border when they have no problem at all fixing borders for other countries. I fear their dishonesty more than any other.

Are you aware that Haiti doesn't have a border with the US?

Haiti is on an island; Their only international border is with the Dominican Republic.

To be fair, that probably hasn't crossed his mind. Jimmy Dore and Russell Brand haven't pointed that out for him yet.

I wonder if RVonse is even aware of the current Tenent scandal, despite the fact most of his heroes are very much wrapped up in it.

 

[Swammerdami]

You can twist the facts all you want to "own the libs" we aren't buying it.

Because the libs aren't the libs anymore. I should know because I used to actually contribute to the democrats before becoming an independent which I am now.

If you are the least bit open minded you should be able to see this yourself. Axulus (the OP) is pretty conservative and now he is in agreement with you. Both the conservative and liberals are shifting their positions in many ways.

It used to be a liberal position to protect labor against capitalists. Not any more

IIRC you consider yourself a "Libertarian" @RVonse . How do you feel about "right to work" laws? How do you feel about tariffs intended to help fragile American enterprises (and their workforces) which seek to deliver important energy technologies in the future?

It used to be a liberal position to stay out of sporting wars. Not any more.

The U.S. is providing aid to Ukraine is this a "sporting war"? What does that even mean?
Ukrainians are mostly white-skinned Christians. Do they also need to speak English before the U.S. should come to their defense?

In the 1990's Bill Clinton and NATO agreed to a United Nations request to help prevent further war crimes by Serbia against Bosnia. Was this a "sporting war"?

It used to be a liberal position to protect and enjoy free speech. Not any more.

Classic novels are being banned from school libraries. Is this done by liberals or by QOPAnon?

Xwitter had a policy of suppressing Tweets with particularly blatant political lies but now encourage lies endorsed by its owner, Elon Musk. Is this expansion of "free speech" on Xwitter a development you support?

 

[RVonse]

Why don't we accept immigration now?

Then why do all the countries in the world have borders?

Hell, you say everyone is a legal person so why do we need front doors on our homes, fences around our property, and even bars on windows sometimes. If you can honestly come to answer some of those questions you will realize why every country has borders and why sovereignty is important.

You may also come to realize why many wars get started and people die for their territory as well.

immigrants, documented or not, commit fewer crimes than native-born Americans.

They broke our law when they entered the country by not going through customs like everyone else.

 

[laughing dog]

Why don't we accept immigration now?

Then why do all the countries in the world have borders?

Hell, you say everyone is a legal person so why do we need front doors on our homes, fences around our property, and even bars on windows sometimes. If you can honestly come to answer some of those questions you will realize why every country has borders and why sovereignty is important.

You may also come to realize why many wars get started and people die for their territory as well.

immigrants, documented or not, commit fewer crimes than native-born Americans.

They broke our law when they entered the country by not going through customs like everyone else.

Documented immigrants broke no laws entering our country.

 

[RVonse]

IIRC you consider yourself a "Libertarian" @RVonse . How do you feel about "right to work" laws? How do you feel about tariffs intended to help fragile American enterprises (and their workforces) which seek to deliver important energy technologies in the future?

I agree with Frank Lloyd Wright. If capitalism is fair then unionism must be. If men and women have a right to capitalize their ideas and the resources of their country, then that implies the right of men and women to capitalize their labor.

I also agree with tariffs. As Laughing Dogs correctly points out, it is not perfect free market capitalism that normal libertarians would prefer. But there does have to be some method to cope with other countries who are able to unfairly support their industries. And there also has to be some method for government to encourage on shore manufacturing when it helps generate high value industries.

 

[RVonse]

The U.S. is providing aid to Ukraine is this a "sporting war"? What does that even mean?
Ukrainians are mostly white-skinned Christians. Do they also need to speak English before the U.S. should come to their defense?

In the 1990's Bill Clinton and NATO agreed to a United Nations request to help prevent further war crimes by Serbia against Bosnia. Was this a "sporting war"?

A sporting war is an offensive and unnecessary war the US need not wage. Wars generally designed to feed and enrich the military industrial complex and all its corrupt actors down the line. 50 years ago the Democrats helped us get out of the Viet Nam war, today it would be the MAGA republicans who would be against it.

 

[RVonse]

Xwitter had a policy of suppressing Tweets with particularly blatant political lies but now encourage lies endorsed by its owner, Elon Musk. Is this expansion of "free speech" on Xwitter a development you support?

Musk says he bought Twitter not for profit but for knowing how suppressed and censored speech in the US was becoming. It should be noted that (like myself) Musk was also a life long Democrat. But it is not Musk or myself that have changed our views, it the Democrat party.

 

[Ruth Harris]

A sporting war is an offensive and unnecessary war the US need not wage. Wars generally designed to feed and enrich the military industrial complex and all its corrupt actors down the line. 50 years ago the Democrats helped us get out of the Viet Nam war, today it would be the MAGA republicans who would be against it.

This statement appears to indicate that you favor isolationism. Is that the case? Do you also favor US withdrawal from mutual defense treaties and NATO?

Ruth

 

[Spacetime Inhabitant]

IIRC you consider yourself a "Libertarian" @RVonse . How do you feel about "right to work" laws? How do you feel about tariffs intended to help fragile American enterprises (and their workforces) which seek to deliver important energy technologies in the future?

I agree with Frank Lloyd Wright. If capitalism is fair then unionism must be. If men and women have a right to capitalize their ideas and the resources of their country, then that implies the right of men and women to capitalize their labor.

I also agree with tariffs. As Laughing Dogs correctly points out, it is not perfect free market capitalism that normal libertarians would prefer. But there does have to be some method to cope with other countries who are able to unfairly support their industries. And there also has to be some method for government to encourage on shore manufacturing when it helps generate high value industries.

Tariffs are a form of protectionism, hence anti-free market. They increase the price the consumer must pay, and are therefore a form of sales tax. They encourage and support uncompetitive and inefficient businesses. The USA has a long history of protectionism, and also large subsidies for farmers (over $30 billion per year).

 

[Axulus]

The U.S. is providing aid to Ukraine is this a "sporting war"? What does that even mean?
Ukrainians are mostly white-skinned Christians. Do they also need to speak English before the U.S. should come to their defense?

In the 1990's Bill Clinton and NATO agreed to a United Nations request to help prevent further war crimes by Serbia against Bosnia. Was this a "sporting war"?

A sporting war is an offensive and unnecessary war the US need not wage. Wars generally designed to feed and enrich the military industrial complex and all its corrupt actors down the line. 50 years ago the Democrats helped us get out of the Viet Nam war, today it would be the MAGA republicans who would be against it.

When was the first time in your life you ever heard the name Putin? What did you think of him at that time?