The Democrats are becoming the Republicans and the Republicans are becoming the Democrats

[bilby]

The original Republican Party, the party of Lincoln, was the party of human rights, of opposition to the spread of slavery, of free markets internally but some tariffs externally, of centralized government authority to some extent, of land-grant colleges, of government financing of the transcontinental railroad, and a pro-labor party whose second presidential candidate, Lincoln in 1860. declared labor prior to and superior to capital. The Democratic Party of that time was a state’s rights party that was pro-slavery, insurrectionist and traitorous, and steeped in a warped and poisonous right-wing religious world view that held it to be God’s word that black were inferior to whites.

So, yes, the two parties since then have basically switched sides.

Lincoln: "A disloyal portion of the American people have during the whole year been engaged in an attempt to divide and destroy the Union. A nation which endures factious domestic division is exposed to disrespect abroad, and one party, if not both, is sure sooner or later to invoke foreign intervention."

Yeah, that definitely sounds like something a Democrat would say.

The analogy of the politics today, and the politics then, is never perfect. What Lincoln is talking about is analogous to a condemnation of the Jan. 6 insurrection at the Capitol, but of course the insurrection of the 1860s was much greater, a full-blown Civil War. When Lincoln speaks of foreign intervention, that was a real fear at the time, because the U.S. was far from a super power. There was great anxiety that the Union blockade of the Confederate coast, which cut off the flow of cotton to Britain, would invite British intervention on the side of the Confederates.

Whereas today, foreign intervention is unthinkable. Could you even imagine what it would look like if Trump was being covertly funded by, for example, the Russian or North Korean governments?

Oh, wait.

shit

 

[RVonse]

What do you think Schumer said that indicates that Democrats are becoming Republicans? Schumer talked about picking up moderate Republicans which I interpret as moderate Republicans are fleeing the party of Trump not that Democrats
are becoming Republicans.

I interpret Schumer attracting the moderate Republicans as being the neocons of the party who want project for the new american century.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century

Neocons like the Cheney's, Bush jr., McCain, Romney, etc. They want the US to remake the world in their image. Some of them are deluded like Axulus thinking the US somehow has the responsibilities to help the world by "getting rid of their dictators". The neocons think they are smarter than God to know which dictators have to be taken down. But most of them just want to make money off the military complex that is so deeply embedded in our government. They become CEO's of the same companies after leaving office. And this is what the Democrats stand for today so the neocons make up a good story about how shitty Trump is and join up with them. I say good riddance to these neocons who are leaving or have left the Republican party, I just wish they would form their own party rather than further corrupting the Democrats who don't need anymore help from them being corrupt.

If the US was following its Constitution as it was written, these neocons could not even exist and would have to crawl back into the woodwork again. Our Constitution states congress should be declaring war with other countries not the executive branch. Furthermore, our first and best president George Washington specifically stated we should be staying away from foreign entanglements. His vision was prophetic because none of those entanglements have turned out well for the US.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

What do you think Schumer said that indicates that Democrats are becoming Republicans? Schumer talked about picking up moderate Republicans which I interpret as moderate Republicans are fleeing the party of Trump not that Democrats
are becoming Republicans.

I interpret Schumer attracting the moderate Republicans as being the neocons of the party who want project for the new american century.

Man, you like to read into things way too deeply. He is looking for moderate Republicans to support Harris over Trump... not to usher in a NWO... but to help Harris get elected. The idea is to attract enough moderate voters who feel Trump's old school racist rhetoric and unhinged personality is a bridge too far.

Neocons like the Cheney's, Bush jr., McCain, Romney, etc. They want the US to remake the world in their image. Some of them are deluded like Axulus thinking the US somehow has the responsibilities to help the world by "getting rid of their dictators". The neocons think they are smarter than God to know which dictators have to be taken down. But most of them just want to make money off the military complex that is so deeply embedded in our government. They become CEO's of the same companies after leaving office. And this is what the Democrats stand for today so the neocons make up a good story about how shitty Trump is and join up with them. I say good riddance to these neocons who are leaving or have left the Republican party, I just wish they would form their own party rather than further corrupting the Democrats who don't need anymore help from them being corrupt.

Corrupting the Democrats? As if you have any support for the Democrat Party. Cheney and the other Neocons that are supporting Harris aren't doing so over policy, they are doing so either a personal vendetta or they realize Trump was a terrible President and will be even worse this time around. Don't trust them? How about all the people he hired in his Cabinet, that he talks badly about because they left on bad terms. All the failures he says they were, despite him putting them in charge. Trump put in some left field folks and some heavy military folks that weren't tow the line people... and almost all of them don't support Trump.

If the US was following its Constitution as it was written, these neocons could not even exist and would have to crawl back into the woodwork again. Our Constitution states congress should be declaring war with other countries not the executive branch. Furthermore, our first and best president George Washington specifically stated we should be staying away from foreign entanglements.

Washington was President nearly 250 years ago. The world has changed a bit since then.

His vision was prophetic because none of those entanglements have turned out well for the US.

None? The alliances post WWII have helped prevent WWIII. The US has certainly gotten involved in some poor military situations. The US has backed some bad people. The US needs to atone... the US is not alone.

 

[Axulus]

What do you think Schumer said that indicates that Democrats are becoming Republicans? Schumer talked about picking up moderate Republicans which I interpret as moderate Republicans are fleeing the party of Trump not that Democrats
are becoming Republicans.

I interpret Schumer attracting the moderate Republicans as being the neocons of the party who want project for the new american century.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century

Neocons like the Cheney's, Bush jr., McCain, Romney, etc. They want the US to remake the world in their image. Some of them are deluded like Axulus thinking the US somehow has the responsibilities to help the world by "getting rid of their dictators". The neocons think they are smarter than God to know which dictators have to be taken down. But most of them just want to make money off the military complex that is so deeply embedded in our government. They become CEO's of the same companies after leaving office. And this is what the Democrats stand for today so the neocons make up a good story about how shitty Trump is and join up with them. I say good riddance to these neocons who are leaving or have left the Republican party, I just wish they would form their own party rather than further corrupting the Democrats who don't need anymore help from them being corrupt.

If the US was following its Constitution as it was written, these neocons could not even exist and would have to crawl back into the woodwork again. Our Constitution states congress should be declaring war with other countries not the executive branch. Furthermore, our first and best president George Washington specifically stated we should be staying away from foreign entanglements. His vision was prophetic because none of those entanglements have turned out well for the US.

That is an absolute BS interpretation about my position on dictators. My position is protect countries from invasion by dictators. Prevent dictators from expanding territory and taking over countries. Protect those countries who are being invaded or are being threatened. Not eliminate them.

Your position is let them do what they want so long as they haven't invaded our physical borders.

The reason you are seeing neocon types join the Democratic party is because there is only one presidential candidate in the race who believes democracy is worth defending at home and abroad. There is only one candidate who plans to faithfully defend and uphold the constitution.

 

[pood]

What do you think Schumer said that indicates that Democrats are becoming Republicans? Schumer talked about picking up moderate Republicans which I interpret as moderate Republicans are fleeing the party of Trump not that Democrats
are becoming Republicans.

I interpret Schumer attracting the moderate Republicans as being the neocons of the party who want project for the new american century.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century

Neocons like the Cheney's, Bush jr., McCain, Romney, etc. They want the US to remake the world in their image. Some of them are deluded like Axulus thinking the US somehow has the responsibilities to help the world by "getting rid of their dictators". The neocons think they are smarter than God to know which dictators have to be taken down. But most of them just want to make money off the military complex that is so deeply embedded in our government. They become CEO's of the same companies after leaving office. And this is what the Democrats stand for today so the neocons make up a good story about how shitty Trump is and join up with them. I say good riddance to these neocons who are leaving or have left the Republican party, I just wish they would form their own party rather than further corrupting the Democrats who don't need anymore help from them being corrupt.

If the US was following its Constitution as it was written, these neocons could not even exist and would have to crawl back into the woodwork again. Our Constitution states congress should be declaring war with other countries not the executive branch. Furthermore, our first and best president George Washington specifically stated we should be staying away from foreign entanglements. His vision was prophetic because none of those entanglements have turned out well for the US.

So the Orange Shitgibbon is the peace candidate, eh?

Yeah, sure.

 

[RVonse]

That is an absolute BS interpretation about my position on dictators. My position is protect countries from invasion by dictators. Prevent dictators from expanding territory and taking over countries. Protect those countries who are being invaded or are being threatened. Not eliminate them.

That is even all the much better for you neocons. Never ending wars for the military complex!

At least WW1 and WW2 were about winning, taking spoils, and resetting nations again. They were wars according to our Constitution decided by our congress. You and the neocons just want the executive branch to crap around the world pretending to be protectors while you bankrupt the US financing needless violence that can not ever be won or resolved.

Of course all the money spent on this needless protectionism isn't going to anyone who actually comes home wounded....its going straight into the neocon pockets as CEO salary.

 

[RVonse]

What do you think Schumer said that indicates that Democrats are becoming Republicans? Schumer talked about picking up moderate Republicans which I interpret as moderate Republicans are fleeing the party of Trump not that Democrats
are becoming Republicans.

I interpret Schumer attracting the moderate Republicans as being the neocons of the party who want project for the new american century.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century

Neocons like the Cheney's, Bush jr., McCain, Romney, etc. They want the US to remake the world in their image. Some of them are deluded like Axulus thinking the US somehow has the responsibilities to help the world by "getting rid of their dictators". The neocons think they are smarter than God to know which dictators have to be taken down. But most of them just want to make money off the military complex that is so deeply embedded in our government. They become CEO's of the same companies after leaving office. And this is what the Democrats stand for today so the neocons make up a good story about how shitty Trump is and join up with them. I say good riddance to these neocons who are leaving or have left the Republican party, I just wish they would form their own party rather than further corrupting the Democrats who don't need anymore help from them being corrupt.

If the US was following its Constitution as it was written, these neocons could not even exist and would have to crawl back into the woodwork again. Our Constitution states congress should be declaring war with other countries not the executive branch. Furthermore, our first and best president George Washington specifically stated we should be staying away from foreign entanglements. His vision was prophetic because none of those entanglements have turned out well for the US.

So the Orange Shitgibbon is the peace candidate, eh?

Yeah, sure.

For all his other faults, Trump's record at peace is arguably at the same level as Jimmy Carter who won the nobel prize for peace. Far and above better than any other recent POTUS.

Trump First President Since Carter Not to Enter Troops Into New Conflict

Ahead of a proposed withdrawal U.S. troops from Iraq and Afghanistan by mid-January, national security adviser Robert O'Brien says president wanted "to put a stop to America's endless wars."

www.newsweek.com

 

[Axulus]

That is an absolute BS interpretation about my position on dictators. My position is protect countries from invasion by dictators. Prevent dictators from expanding territory and taking over countries. Protect those countries who are being invaded or are being threatened. Not eliminate them.

That is even all the much better for you neocons. Never ending wars for the military complex.

At least WW1 and WW2 were about winning, taking spoils, and resetting nations again. You and the neocons just want to crap around the world pretending to be protectors while you bankrupt the US financing needless violence that can not ever be won or resolved.

Of course all the money spent on this needless protectionism isn't going to anyone who actually comes home wounded....its going into their pockets as CEO salary.

Liberal democracy is worth protecting. Our country is better off for it by far. I'm sorry you don't feel that way. You've really lost the plot on this one with the MAGA nonsense.

 

[laughing dog]

That is an absolute BS interpretation about my position on dictators. My position is protect countries from invasion by dictators. Prevent dictators from expanding territory and taking over countries. Protect those countries who are being invaded or are being threatened. Not eliminate them.

That is even all the much better for you neocons. Never ending wars for the military complex!

I am pretty sure you have no clue what a neocon really is because neither Auxulus nor moderate republicans are neocons.

At least WW1 and WW2 were about winning, taking spoils, and resetting nations again. They were wars according to our Constitution decided by our congress. You and the neocons just want the executive branch to crap around the world pretending to be protectors while you bankrupt the US financing needless violence that can not ever be won or resolved.

The US did not enter WWI nor WWII to take spoils. What are you going on about now?

 

[Patooka]

For all his other faults, Trump record at peace is arguably at the same level as Jimmy Carter who won the nobel prize for peace. Far and above better than any other recent POTUS.

Your messiah thought John fucking Bolton would be a great choice for NSA. 'nuff said.

 

[RVonse]

That is an absolute BS interpretation about my position on dictators. My position is protect countries from invasion by dictators. Prevent dictators from expanding territory and taking over countries. Protect those countries who are being invaded or are being threatened. Not eliminate them.

That is even all the much better for you neocons. Never ending wars for the military complex.

At least WW1 and WW2 were about winning, taking spoils, and resetting nations again. You and the neocons just want to crap around the world pretending to be protectors while you bankrupt the US financing needless violence that can not ever be won or resolved.

Of course all the money spent on this needless protectionism isn't going to anyone who actually comes home wounded....its going into their pockets as CEO salary.

Liberal democracy is worth protecting. Our country is better off for it by far. I'm sorry you don't feel that way. You've really lost the plot on this one with the MAGA nonsense.

If it is such a good cause then let all the neocons donate their sons and daughters to do the protecting. And let them pay into a special democracy fund that is separate from my federal tax return. Then I will be for liberal democracy too just as you are.

 

[RVonse]

That is an absolute BS interpretation about my position on dictators. My position is protect countries from invasion by dictators. Prevent dictators from expanding territory and taking over countries. Protect those countries who are being invaded or are being threatened. Not eliminate them.

That is even all the much better for you neocons. Never ending wars for the military complex!

I am pretty sure you have no clue what a neocon really is because neither Auxulus nor moderate republicans are neocons.

At least WW1 and WW2 were about winning, taking spoils, and resetting nations again. They were wars according to our Constitution decided by our congress. You and the neocons just want the executive branch to crap around the world pretending to be protectors while you bankrupt the US financing needless violence that can not ever be won or resolved.

The US did not enter WWI nor WWII to take spoils. What are you going on about now?
[/QUOTE]
The US and Russia took all the best scientists to develope rocketry and the a bomb. Countries and territories were divided and renamed. The US dollar became the defacto reserve currency. Israel was created, etc.

 

[laughing dog]

The US and Russia took all the best scientists to develope rocketry and the a bomb. The US dollar became the defacto reserve currency. Israel was created, etc.

You confuse outcomes with aims. The US did not enter WWII in order to become the defacto reserve currency or take all the best rocket scientists. The development of the atomic bomb was not the result of WWII spoils.

Your views seem to be driven by factual inaccuracy.

 

[RVonse]

For all his other faults, Trump record at peace is arguably at the same level as Jimmy Carter who won the nobel prize for peace. Far and above better than any other recent POTUS.

Your messiah thought John fucking Bolton would be a great choice for NSA. 'nuff said.

Yes, Trump was about as incompetent and any POTUS could get picking qualified people. Most of his staff did not even agree with his platform. He did at least fire a great number of them but they had already done a lot of damage.

He was unprepared to become POTUS IMO because I do not believe he even thought he was going to win. He had no plans in place when it happened.

 

[RVonse]

The US and Russia took all the best scientists to develope rocketry and the a bomb. The US dollar became the defacto reserve currency. Israel was created, etc.

You confuse outcomes with aims. The US did not enter WWII in order to become the defacto reserve currency or take all the best rocket scientists. The development of the atomic bomb was not the result of WWII spoils.

Your views seem to be driven by factual inaccuracy.

The axis was in it for the spoils even if some of the Allies weren't.

 

[Patooka]

For all his other faults, Trump record at peace is arguably at the same level as Jimmy Carter who won the nobel prize for peace. Far and above better than any other recent POTUS.

Your messiah thought John fucking Bolton would be a great choice for NSA. 'nuff said.

Yes, Trump was about as incompetent and any POTUS could get picking qualified people. Most of his staff did not even agree with his platform. He did at least fire a great number of them but they had already done a lot of damage.

He was unprepared to become POTUS IMO because I do not expect he even thought he was going to win.

Do you honestly believe that any of Trump's never ending clown car of staff ever said to him, "Yes Mr President, I think it is an excellent idea to implement foreign policy via Twitter alone. Make sure the post is done in all caps when you do though"?

The fact you don't realise is the only difference between PNAC and MAGA is that MAGA has more retarded rhetoric and slogans speaks volumes about your critical thought process. That's why so many Bush Jnr supporters (Hannity, Carlson, O'Reiily, Bollinger etc) are now part of *your* twisted perverted tribe. If you only ever spent 5 seconds of self reflection to figure that out...

 

[laughing dog]

The US and Russia took all the best scientists to develope rocketry and the a bomb. The US dollar became the defacto reserve currency. Israel was created, etc.

You confuse outcomes with aims. The US did not enter WWII in order to become the defacto reserve currency or take all the best rocket scientists. The development of the atomic bomb was not the result of WWII spoils.

Your views seem to be driven by factual inaccuracy.

The axis was in it for the spoils even if some of the Allies weren't.

Which has nothing to do with your implication for the US to enter wars. Defense against aggression is not entering to get spoils.

 

[Axulus]

That is an absolute BS interpretation about my position on dictators. My position is protect countries from invasion by dictators. Prevent dictators from expanding territory and taking over countries. Protect those countries who are being invaded or are being threatened. Not eliminate them.

That is even all the much better for you neocons. Never ending wars for the military complex.

At least WW1 and WW2 were about winning, taking spoils, and resetting nations again. You and the neocons just want to crap around the world pretending to be protectors while you bankrupt the US financing needless violence that can not ever be won or resolved.

Of course all the money spent on this needless protectionism isn't going to anyone who actually comes home wounded....its going into their pockets as CEO salary.

Liberal democracy is worth protecting. Our country is better off for it by far. I'm sorry you don't feel that way. You've really lost the plot on this one with the MAGA nonsense.

If it is such a good cause then let all the neocons donate their sons and daughters to do the protecting. And let them pay into a special democracy fund that is separate from my federal tax return. Then I will be for liberal democracy too just as you are.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

That is an absolute BS interpretation about my position on dictators. My position is protect countries from invasion by dictators. Prevent dictators from expanding territory and taking over countries. Protect those countries who are being invaded or are being threatened. Not eliminate them.

That is even all the much better for you neocons. Never ending wars for the military complex!

At least WW1 and WW2 were about winning, taking spoils, and resetting nations again.

What?! WWII was about Germany and Japan trying to take over their respective continent.

They were wars according to our Constitution decided by our congress. You and the neocons just want the executive branch to crap around the world pretending to be protectors while you bankrupt the US financing needless violence that can not ever be won or resolved.

While I can definitely empathize with this opinion, while things haven't been 100% peaceful, it has been 80 years since the Big Fucking War III (WWII). Before that, it was 30 years (WWI). Before that, it was 50 years (Crimean War). Before Crimean, Wars were almost like dinner parties in Europe. You want to whine about how bad things are... when they aren't nearly as bad as they were.

Of course all the money spent on this needless protectionism isn't going to anyone who actually comes home wounded....its going straight into the neocon pockets as CEO salary.

So the solution is capitulation to another country... cause the guy you want in the White House owes them money? Putin is the savior?

Russian President Vladimir Putin made a fresh nuclear threat against the West and Ukraine on Wednesday, indicating that any nation’s conventional attack on Russia that was supported by a nuclear power would be perceived as a joint attack.

At a meeting with the Russian Security Council, Putin said that in light of an “emergence of new sources of military threats and risks for Russia and our allies,” specialists from the Defense Ministry and other government agencies had conducted a year-long, in-depth review of the country’s nuclear doctrine.

“The updated version of the document proposes that aggression against Russia by any non-nuclear-weapon state, but with the participation or support of a nuclear-weapon state, should be considered as a joint attack on the Russian Federation,” Putin told the council.

 

[bilby]

At least WW1 and WW2 were about winning, taking spoils, and resetting nations again.

WTAF??

How can anyone have such an abject ignorance of history as to say this?

How does the Marshall Plan, which has been perhaps one of the most significant actions by the USA in shaping the modern world, fit in with the medieval idea of "taking spoils"?

The Russians treated WWII that way, and that gives us a rare opportunity as historians to see a direct comparison between two approaches. Defeated Germany, divided into two parts, one run under the new paradigm, and one the old.

The differences in outcome - from the exact same starting point, in two adjacent polities, with the exact same culture, language, attitudes, history, and heritage - were so stark that even the dullest student should be able to see that what the British, French, and American victors did was utterly different from, and VASTLY more successful in every way than, what the Soviet victors did.

And one if the most significant differences was something radical and new - faced with a defeated and despised enemy, the western allies did NOT loot their country for the spoils. They did the EXACT OPPOSITE - they poured money and food and building materials and machinery INTO the conqured territory.

How can you be so clueless about one of the most outlandish and most successful departures from historical norms by any nation in history, when that astonishing success was achieved by your OWN COUNTRY, less than eighty years ago?? There are still a few people alive in your country who remember this history FIRST HAND. Have you never thought to talk to any of them??