Elixir
Made in America
You seem to be on a "Down with everyone!" jag.
Would you like to be President (or Premier or something?)?
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The DNC is the problem. Or is it?
- Thread starter Rhea
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You seem to be on a "Down with everyone!" jag.
Would you like to be President (or Premier or something?)?
PyramidHead
Contributor
The sad state of political discourse on this forum is that pointing out the blatant class dimensions of American politics gets one labeled as an unhinged iconoclast who wants to rule over everyone else.
Elixir
Made in America
Well, putting everyone else down does tend to cultivate that image...
PyramidHead
Contributor
Curious, what do you mean by "everyone else", and why do you think it's inherently unlikely that everyone in that group is deeply mistaken about politics? Do you see the American electorate (and the internet-dwelling liberal segment that still posts on vBulletin forums) as being beyond criticism about the basic foundations of their ideology?
fromderinside
Mazzie Daius
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NOAH. Say it isn't so. The dishpan actually has a shiny center?
southernhybrid
Contributor
Earth to JP. We aren't interested in what you think of our candidates because we don't like people who aren't citizens of our country telling us how to vote. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but it has no value when it comes to how we vote. I haven't seen Americans telling people in other countries how they should vote. Sure, we can criticize their leaders after they are elected, just like people around the world can criticize our leaders. But, we are the ones who have the power of the vote and we are the only ones who will decide the the November election, well along with our dumb ass electoral college, which would take a constitutional amendment to end.
You don't help your case when you try to redefine the meaning of the words conservative, liberal, centrist or progressive. Change has always come slowly. Revolutions have never worked out well. ( go watch the old Woody Allen movie, "Bananas" for a good satirical example ) So, most of us prefer someone who is not as far left as Bernie. We don't necessarily disagree with some of his ideas. But those of use who have been around for awhile, realize that it takes time to make progress. Obama started us on the pathway to UHC, but then the Republicans did everything in their power to slow things down and even destroy the accomplishments of his administration. It's insane to believe that M4A is going to be passed in a country like the US. One thing that I know about my fellow Americans is that they demand choices. Traditional Medicare leaves one with few choices. Your culture is somewhat different than our culture. Our culture is extremely diverse. Hopefully in time, we will be able to limit the amount of profit in our healthcare system and create something that is affordable for all of our citizens. As a person who served Medicare recipients for decades and who did Medicare reviews, billing etc.and as a person who has been a recipient of Medicare for over five years, I probably know a lot more about Medicare than most people do.
Currently over a third of Medicare recipients choose Advantage Plans. These are provided by private insurance, and they are much cheaper than traditional M/care. Our drug plans are also private insurance plans. We have many choices now, so why would we want to give up those choices? UHC could be provided by a mix of M'caid for the lowest income citizens and the rest of us could opt for government subsidized private insurance plans. The cost of the Bernie plan is prohibitive. His numbers are not accurate, according to numerous economists from both sides. I don't think he has a clue when it comes to how to pay for these things. Of course, I will have to vote for him if he becomes the Democratic nominee, as I've never been anything resembling a conservative American, and the current R party is an extremist party of the wealthy as well as those who have been fooled into believing they are being helped by Trump with false promises.
I prefer a realistic candidate, someone I would consider center left, progressive but reasonable. You aren't gaining much respect when you call people like Rhea or Toni conservatives. They aren't conservatives. They are are progressives, but they are realistic progressives who understand the make up of our country. Unfortunately, the young and idealistic don't always seem to understand that. Most of us learn from experience. When the wisdom of the old is taken along with the idealism of the young, we can often find solutions. But, you can't form a minority coalition and expect great changes. Bernie has about 30% support, but there are too many other candidates crowding out the other lanes to make it easy for any of them to get ahead. Maybe Bernie can defeat Trump but I feel one of the other candidate would have a better chance of that. That's all that matters to me. I'm already hearing liberal black friends say they won't vote for Bernie and most of our black citizens are Democrats. They should have a strong voice in deciding who should represent them.
So, please stop telling us how to vote. It's rather obnoxious having someone from another country trying to influence our votes. We are perfectly capable of making our own decision without any foreign influence.
You don't help your case when you try to redefine the meaning of the words conservative, liberal, centrist or progressive. Change has always come slowly. Revolutions have never worked out well. ( go watch the old Woody Allen movie, "Bananas" for a good satirical example ) So, most of us prefer someone who is not as far left as Bernie. We don't necessarily disagree with some of his ideas. But those of use who have been around for awhile, realize that it takes time to make progress. Obama started us on the pathway to UHC, but then the Republicans did everything in their power to slow things down and even destroy the accomplishments of his administration. It's insane to believe that M4A is going to be passed in a country like the US. One thing that I know about my fellow Americans is that they demand choices. Traditional Medicare leaves one with few choices. Your culture is somewhat different than our culture. Our culture is extremely diverse. Hopefully in time, we will be able to limit the amount of profit in our healthcare system and create something that is affordable for all of our citizens. As a person who served Medicare recipients for decades and who did Medicare reviews, billing etc.and as a person who has been a recipient of Medicare for over five years, I probably know a lot more about Medicare than most people do.
Currently over a third of Medicare recipients choose Advantage Plans. These are provided by private insurance, and they are much cheaper than traditional M/care. Our drug plans are also private insurance plans. We have many choices now, so why would we want to give up those choices? UHC could be provided by a mix of M'caid for the lowest income citizens and the rest of us could opt for government subsidized private insurance plans. The cost of the Bernie plan is prohibitive. His numbers are not accurate, according to numerous economists from both sides. I don't think he has a clue when it comes to how to pay for these things. Of course, I will have to vote for him if he becomes the Democratic nominee, as I've never been anything resembling a conservative American, and the current R party is an extremist party of the wealthy as well as those who have been fooled into believing they are being helped by Trump with false promises.
I prefer a realistic candidate, someone I would consider center left, progressive but reasonable. You aren't gaining much respect when you call people like Rhea or Toni conservatives. They aren't conservatives. They are are progressives, but they are realistic progressives who understand the make up of our country. Unfortunately, the young and idealistic don't always seem to understand that. Most of us learn from experience. When the wisdom of the old is taken along with the idealism of the young, we can often find solutions. But, you can't form a minority coalition and expect great changes. Bernie has about 30% support, but there are too many other candidates crowding out the other lanes to make it easy for any of them to get ahead. Maybe Bernie can defeat Trump but I feel one of the other candidate would have a better chance of that. That's all that matters to me. I'm already hearing liberal black friends say they won't vote for Bernie and most of our black citizens are Democrats. They should have a strong voice in deciding who should represent them.
So, please stop telling us how to vote. It's rather obnoxious having someone from another country trying to influence our votes. We are perfectly capable of making our own decision without any foreign influence.
Elixir
Made in America
Not you. Who among the "not you" group do you support?
PyramidHead
Contributor
Socialists and communists, and social democrats who improve the lives of working people as a distant second.
Elixir
Made in America
Like... what communist(s)? Bam Dev of Nepal? Díaz-Canel? Xi Jinping?
Chinese Churches 'Must Support' Communist Leaders and Gov't, New Law Says
There's not a lot that I find appealing about any of the outcomes these guys have overseen...
PyramidHead
Contributor
Yes, like those (but Castro has more power in Cuba than the President), and also Kim Jong-Un and Nicholas Maduro; and among the socialists, people like Evo Morales; and among the social democrats Jeremy Corbyn and Bernie Sanders. I don't have a tier list in mind, but those are the people I generally admire in world politics. I admire revolutionary black internationalists like Omali Yeshitela, even if I don't always agree with them in matters of theory.
They aren't trying to make your life more comfortable, so that's unsurprising. I find it appealing when exploited peoples exert self-determination against their oppressors and apply serious resistance to imperial capitalism.
Elixir
Made in America
So you're saying that you like communist oppressors, and celebrate people who rise up against them? Like if the N Koreans revolted against Kim, were tortured, wiped out and fondly remembered by romantic poets?
I think the only examples in actual existence are small un-contacted tribes deep in the Amazon. I can definitely get behind THAT!
Outside of such examples you are advocating for greater suffering of greater numbers of people, and for continuous violent cycles of oppression and uprising. You could probably find enough people who like that kind of thing to populate a small island somewhere... unfortunately most of the ones who like that kind of thing are individuals like those named, so it would indeed be interesting to see who murdered who.
Harry Bosch
Contributor
Buddy: In the defense of black kettle pots all over the world: you shouldn't be calling others "oppressor" and or "imperialist"!
PyramidHead
Contributor
Kim is mostly loved by the DPRK, and has an 80% approval rating even in South Korea, so... no.
Yes, the slaves who decided to overthrow their masters were being so unreasonable with their advocacy of uprising, I'm sure.
PyramidHead
Contributor
Do you actually know what imperialism is, or do you think it's something like "having a military"?
Elixir
Made in America
I'm sure that if you lived there, you would "love" him exactly that much.
Or be tortured until you did.
Human Rights Watch (another agency of oppression, I'm sure):
You sure have a dystopian vision of what the "communist ideal" would look like.
Or maybe you're just delusional.
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Rumor has it NK just cured their first corona virus case. They executed him.
Don2 (Don1 Revised)
Contributor
Authoritarianism isn't the way to socialism. It creates a new bourgeoisie class.
Elixir
Made in America
... and rumor has it that in NK, people are not "mostly" in that class. In fact, "most" people in NK are starved to the point where the entire population is physically stunted and "most" are treated in a manner that would be illegal to treat dogs or horses in the USA. I'm a little shocked that PH, for all the righteous abstract philosophical preaching against "the oppressors", actually supports so many of them.
Harry Bosch
Contributor
Gosh, I always considered the definition of imperialism to be countries who extend their power and influence over sovereign countries through military force or threat of force. Are you not rooting China on towards conquering Taiwan? Or would you at least admit that China bullies other countries with the threat of force?
PyramidHead
Contributor
China does not have a perfect foreign policy, but they have 8 military bases abroad compared to being surrounded by literally hundreds of American military bases. Taiwan was part of China from as far back as the Qing dynasty, and was only separated from it when Japan took it over in the late 1800's. It was returned to China in 1945 just before the revolution, and during the civil war, the Kuomintang fled there and established it as a stronghold. This situation has lasted until today. Taiwan is a part of China that was robbed from it.