The Fate of the Universe and Christian Belief

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Do Christians believe their actions control the fate of the universe? When they gather weekly and on their obligatory days in the building across the street, make their prayers and go through their rituals, are they doing the same thing as other religions?

The question occurred to me after considering other religious practices such as Mayan, Norse, and Egyptian where behaviors and rituals were directed at preserving the continuation of natural phenomenon such as the sun returning daily.

 

[Keith&Co.]

rituals were directed at preserving the continuation of natural phenomenon such as the sun returning daily.

For most of those, it wasn't stoking the fires of the sun or casting a great big Light spell on the sky. It was propitiating the Sun God to ask him to continue to look favorably on the miserable wretches who were spilling blood in his name, and not to go away, get drunk on Mt. Olympus, and leave us in darkness.

For the Christain, God's got a plan and a calendar and a countdown. He's seen the future, he's made the future, he's going to watch the future unfold to his satisfaction. The best the Christain can do is to appeal for slight changes in the overall plan. Bringing the kid home from war won't stop Armageddon, but it would be nice, if you could see your way clear.

 

[braces_for_impact]

I think some do, some don't.

 

[rhutchin]

Do Christians believe their actions control the fate of the universe? When they gather weekly and on their obligatory days in the building across the street, make their prayers and go through their rituals, are they doing the same thing as other religions?

What Christians believe is that there is a God who controls the fate of individuals and the universe. They believe that people who believe in this god can petition (pray to) God and have their prayers answered. Others in other religions kinda believe the same thing but with respect to whatever god they believe in, but you'd have to ask them about that.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Do Christians believe their actions control the fate of the universe? When they gather weekly and on their obligatory days in the building across the street, make their prayers and go through their rituals, are they doing the same thing as other religions?

What Christians believe is that there is a God who controls the fate of individuals and the universe. They believe that people who believe in this god can petition (pray to) God and have their prayers answered. Others in other religions kinda believe the same thing but with respect to whatever god they believe in, but you'd have to ask them about that.

I'll take that as a "yes."

I say that because whether you're making noise and screaming at a sky wolf to scare it away so it doesn't eat the sun, or whether you're asking a mangod or spirit to change the weather, it appears you're doing the same thing. The specific behavior differs across cultures but not the perception that what you are doing is literally orchestrating cosmic events which in fact are out of your control and over which you have absolutely no power.

Like you say, the degree to which a person practices that varies, but not the perception that he is in control. I guess if a person didn't think they had some control over such events their religion would essentially be useless.

 

[Keith&Co.]

I guess if a person didn't think they had some control over such events their religion would essentially be useless.

It might be a soporific. You have no control, you don't DESERVE control, you sinful little pig kisser....but at least the guy who DOES have control loves you, and wants you to be happy. Or at least, doesn't give you any more unhappiness than you're able to handle. Ultimately.
Just remember Job, and don't give up the faith.

 

[Kharakov]

Theists have as much control as a naturalist who is caused by natural laws.... Ohh, wait a second, that's not true.

If a naturalist is caused by physical laws, then they do not have the power to choose. Their choice is caused by laws which also determine whether or not the choice matches what occurs.

If a theist is caused by a conscious being that engages in regular behaviors in order to teach the theist various behaviors that the theist can select from and combine into other behaviors, a theist does have the power to choose from and combine the behaviors that the conscious being they relate with allows them to choose from.

So, if a conscious being interacts with us, we can make choices from what they present to us. If it is natural law that determines our actions, we can not make choices, and the fact that what we choose is what occurs is just a strange coincidence. That's all it is guys- just a coincidence. :p definitely better than ...

 

[bilby]

Magical thinking is a fundamental glitch in the way human brains work (and appears also to exist in other animals). Religion simply formalises this error, to which we are all prone.

 

[Tigers!]

Similar I guess to all those people who think that we humans can control nature.
We try to build fire-proof buildings, wind-proof structures etc and find that they are not really so.
Or if we recycle, or fly less or whatever takes our fancy we can somehow 'heal' the planet.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Or if we recycle, or fly less or whatever takes our fancy we can somehow 'heal' the planet.

The act of recycling heals the planet? I never heard anyone suggest anything remotely like that. That would be like believing the act of not punching someone in the head heals their wounds...

I do tend to figure that if we don't quite know how to repair the damage we've done to the planet, perhaps we might figure a way to do less damage until we can fix it. So recycling's more like 'not kicking a man while he's down.' Give him a chance to recover all on his own, while witholding additional trauma.

But other than that, yeah, it's purely magical thinking.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Do Christians believe their actions control the fate of the universe? When they gather weekly and on their obligatory days in the building across the street, make their prayers and go through their rituals, are they doing the same thing as other religions?

The question occurred to me after considering other religious practices such as Mayan, Norse, and Egyptian where behaviors and rituals were directed at preserving the continuation of natural phenomenon such as the sun returning daily.

Christian theology is so riddled with logical holes it can easily be knocked down from any angle. But how about this, an omnipotent and omniscient actor can't chose to be passive. Everything is by definition gods choice and how god wants it. The rest of the universe are irrelevant.