The federal government is finally making police report every time they kill someone

[ksen]

http://www.vox.com/2016/8/9/12412228/police-shootings-killings-data

Federal officials wrote in the Federal Register that the new database will try to solve these problems: “The redesigned methodology includes a standardized mixed method, hybrid approach relying on open sources to identify eligible cases, followed by data requests from law enforcement and medical examiner/coroner offices for incident-specific information about the decedent and circumstances surrounding the event.”

The agency will enforce the collection of these statistics through existing federal law — which requires police agencies report all deaths under their custody or lose federal funding — and verify the data by itself. It will collect data ranging from the causes of death to demographic data about the victims.

The new database will first give annual data for 2016, then move to a quarterly basis afterward.

Better late than never.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Well, if they're going to have to fill out a bunch of paperwork every single time they kill somebody, that's just taking cops off the street and chaining them behind a desk. How does that make people more safe?

 

[ksen]

By taking them off the street and chaining them to a desk to fill out a bunch of paperwork would be my guess.

 

[Derec]

By taking them off the street and chaining them to a desk to fill out a bunch of paperwork would be my guess.

And what when the crime rate increases because police are tied up with bureaucracy?

 

[ksen]

By taking them off the street and chaining them to a desk to fill out a bunch of paperwork would be my guess.

And what when the crime rate increases because police are tied up with bureaucracy?

You mean like when NYC ceased its "Stop and Frisk" program and crime went through the roof?

 

[laughing dog]

By taking them off the street and chaining them to a desk to fill out a bunch of paperwork would be my guess.

And what when the crime rate increases because police are tied up with bureaucracy?

Unlike your usual attempts at injecting humor, that one was really funny.

 

[atrib]

By taking them off the street and chaining them to a desk to fill out a bunch of paperwork would be my guess.

And what when the crime rate increases because police are tied up with bureaucracy?

I think he was saying that the murder rate goes down when the police are tied up at their desks and do not have the time to go around killing people.

 

[Shadowy Man]

The cops finally have a good reason not to kill people, eh? Who can deal with all the paperwork?

 

[Keith&Co.]

By taking them off the street and chaining them to a desk to fill out a bunch of paperwork would be my guess.

And what when the crime rate increases because police are tied up with bureaucracy?

All joking aside, is there any indication that individual police officers will face an increase in their paperwork burden here?

Looks to me that the individual police departments just need to forward information they already collect every time a cop discharges a weapon and/or shoots/wounds/kills someone in the line of duty.

So the manhours of police present on the streets doesn't look to change. Unless someone sees something I don't...?

 

[Treedbear]

...
So the manhours of police present on the streets doesn't look to change. Unless someone sees something I don't...?

Could even have an administrative assistant do it, right?

 

[Keith&Co.]

...
So the manhours of police present on the streets doesn't look to change. Unless someone sees something I don't...?

Could even have an administrative assistant do it, right?

Yeah. I'm sure there's a routing form for all incident reports that include a deathity, probably to Internal Affairs, the Commissioner, Batman, maybe the Mayor's office, the police union. Just add 'and a copy to Obama' to that list.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

While it will no doubt be a better source than the current private efforts it's not going to make a big difference--despite the spin on the private sites we can clearly see most cases are legitimate.

 

[bilby]

While it will no doubt be a better source than the current private efforts it's not going to make a big difference--despite the spin on the private sites we can clearly see most cases are legitimate.

So you are saying that in other OECD jurisdictions, where these 'legitimate' deaths don't occur, there is a dangerous surplus of living people building up?

It is very clear to me that if other nations are able to remain civilized without these deaths, then these deaths must NOT be legitimate.

I suspect that you are confusing the concept of 'convenience' with that of 'legitimacy'. It certainly requires a lot less effort to shoot dead a knife-wielding schizophrenic than it is to subdue him, disarm him, and have him placed in a secure psychiatric facility. But 'less effort' does NOT equal 'legitimate'. In jurisdictions (such as the UK) where police are not given the option to shoot people dead in such circumstances, the total rate of deaths (both of police and of suspects) is far lower than it is in the USA.

What you claim to be able to 'clearly see' looks a LOT like an unjustified rationalization to me.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

While it will no doubt be a better source than the current private efforts it's not going to make a big difference--despite the spin on the private sites we can clearly see most cases are legitimate.

So you are saying that in other OECD jurisdictions, where these 'legitimate' deaths don't occur, there is a dangerous surplus of living people building up?

It is very clear to me that if other nations are able to remain civilized without these deaths, then these deaths must NOT be legitimate.

I suspect that you are confusing the concept of 'convenience' with that of 'legitimacy'. It certainly requires a lot less effort to shoot dead a knife-wielding schizophrenic than it is to subdue him, disarm him, and have him placed in a secure psychiatric facility. But 'less effort' does NOT equal 'legitimate'. In jurisdictions (such as the UK) where police are not given the option to shoot people dead in such circumstances, the total rate of deaths (both of police and of suspects) is far lower than it is in the USA.

What you claim to be able to 'clearly see' looks a LOT like an unjustified rationalization to me.

The difference is our criminals are more likely to risk death to get away from the police, coupled with some who choose death over capture.

 

[Arctish]

The difference is our criminals are more likely to risk death to get away from the police, coupled with some who choose death over capture.

Do you have any evidence to support this claim or did you just make it up out of thin air and bullshit?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The difference is our criminals are more likely to risk death to get away from the police, coupled with some who choose death over capture.

Do you have any evidence to support this claim or did you just make it up out of thin air and bullshit?

Chicago: Half of police killings are suicide by cop: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_by_cop

 

[laughing dog]

Do you have any evidence to support this claim or did you just make it up out of thin air and bullshit?

Chicago: Half of police killings are suicide by cop: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_by_cop

Your wikipedia citation is for Canada, not Chicago. And the study is guesswork, since the victims typically do not announce they are committing suicide by cop, as your Wiki citation notes:

This entire concept hinges on the person's state of mind, and their desire to end their own life, which can be difficult to determine post mortem.[2] Some cases are obvious, such as pointing an unloaded or non-functioning gun (such as a toy gun, air gun, airsoft gun or starter's pistol) at officers, or the presence of a suicide note. Some suspects brazenly announce their intention to die before they act (e.g., the iconic declaration "You'll never take me alive!"). However, many cases can be more difficult to determine, as some suspects with the desire to die will actually fire live ammunition and even kill people before being killed themselves. Many law enforcement training programs have added sections to specifically address handling these situations if officers suspect that the subject is attempting to goad them into using lethal force.

 

[whichphilosophy]

By taking them off the street and chaining them to a desk to fill out a bunch of paperwork would be my guess.

Follow the model set by Duterte, the new Filipino president. Just keep a blind eye on the vigilantes who are currently on a shooting spree with a body count approaching 1,000 just two months after he took power. Then there's plenty of time for paperwork.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Chicago: Half of police killings are suicide by cop: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_by_cop

Your wikipedia citation is for Canada, not Chicago. And the study is guesswork, since the victims typically do not announce they are committing suicide by cop, as your Wiki citation notes:

This entire concept hinges on the person's state of mind, and their desire to end their own life, which can be difficult to determine post mortem.[2] Some cases are obvious, such as pointing an unloaded or non-functioning gun (such as a toy gun, air gun, airsoft gun or starter's pistol) at officers, or the presence of a suicide note. Some suspects brazenly announce their intention to die before they act (e.g., the iconic declaration "You'll never take me alive!"). However, many cases can be more difficult to determine, as some suspects with the desire to die will actually fire live ammunition and even kill people before being killed themselves. Many law enforcement training programs have added sections to specifically address handling these situations if officers suspect that the subject is attempting to goad them into using lethal force.

Ok, I got the location wrong. That doesn't change the basic issue--a lot of police shootings are really suicides.

 

[laughing dog]

That doesn't change the basic issue--a lot of police shootings are really suicides.

I don't know what you mean by "a lot". I am pretty sure that you and I disagree on what a "real" suicide means, or the actual relevance of the issue to police shootings. Are you under the impression that it is part of the duties of the police to assist suicides?