The Job is the Thing

[RVonse]

It is my opinion most people are able to do a whole lot more with their lives jobwise and position wise than they ever attain to. The reason for this is that there are not enough jobs to go around for everyone able to do one to have one. Same thing with owning a business. A whole lot of people could own and run one but the economy will only allow so many to exist at a given time.

Totally agree. IMO and for or better or worse, women entering the workforce did not help average jobs become more meaningful, enriched and/or satisfying either.

Perhaps it made the lives of those women more meaningful, enriched or satisfying.

It no doubt did, no argument. But the cost (IMO) to society was more gun shootings and drug usage for young men.

 

[southernhybrid]

I have never looked down on any worker or wondered why they weren't cordial, with one exception. I worked as an RN for 42 years, a highly stressful, emotionally draining career, which I had a love/hate relationship with, due to many circumstances. I always treated all of my patients or clients, if you prefer that word, with dignity and respect. Okay. There may have been a few times when I was called out in the middle of the night for some stupid reason, and asked to visit someone to check to see why they weren't as alert as usual, so I found a reason not to visit them, by politely suggesting they send mom to the ER or wait until morning if it didn't sound like an emergency. And, I confess that I was mildly annoyed due to some unreasonable demand at times, but that happened maybe 4 or 5 times over 42 years.

So, when I am the patient or client, I expect to be treated with respect and I am very disappointed when any staff member acts like I'm an annoying pain, even when I try to be cordial and respectful to them. I'm not the reason why they are underpaid, overworked or treated like shit by their employer, so it's displaced aggression to take it out on patients. So, yes. It does piss me off when a medical provider or medical office worker can't be polite and cordial to their patients/customers. The word patient literally means, "one who suffers" and anyone who is suffering shouldn't be treated poorly. You don't have to care about me after I leave your office but at least act like you care when I'm there. Sadly, healthcare has become all about profit and greed, which isn't the fault of the people who need care. It's the fault of doctors and/or CEOs who only care about money.

I spent years being talked down to by some male doctors or working with miserable women who attacked me for being an atheist etc. That even happened when I worked in QA, which to me was a low stress job. When I was fortunate, I worked with happy women and we had good supervisors who were willing to listen to us. I changed jobs way too often over minor things. I blame myself for that, due to being young, and having unreasonable expectations. Nursing can be a wonderful, intellectually stimulating, challenging, emotionally rewarding career, but it takes understanding management, decent pay and coworkers who support each other for all of that to happen. My heart goes out to nurses who work in hospitals, or hell holes as I often think of those places. I had to work in one to get experience when I first finished school and it was a nightmare, especially when I worked the night shift. Nurses should be kind to their patients, but patients should also at least try to be kind to their nurses. I've had male patients hit on me. I watched a male patient spit on a nurse, while he was on a ventilator! I've seen it all. Don't get me started or I'll never stop...

The best jobs I had were in public health, but back in those days, those jobs were hard to get and I quit too often, which was dumb on my part. I ended up working as a part time contractor in long term care for the psychological sense of freedom it gave me, not to have a boss. Of course, the owners of the company could have asked me to leave, but they knew better. As long as the state gave me excellent reviews, which they always did, they never interfered with my work. I enjoyed caring for the residents and I love documentation, which was a big part of my job.

I'm glad I'm retired because the stories I've heard from nurses over the last few years are often horrible. Hospital nurses have been attacked or threatened by patients or family members, staffing has been lowered and some workers have been given positions that they aren't qualified for in some cases. I met a nurse who was working as a travel nurse because she at least could make really good money, which in her opinion was worth the extra stress..

Sorry Athena. I'm bad about ranting when it comes to the issues that nurses deal with everyday. Their's an expression...."Nurses eat their own". Sadly that's often the case. I think it's primarily because women are often bad at uniting, which allows management to take advantage of the situation. I've got lots of wonderful and interesting memories from my former career, but I'm not sure I could do it again if I were starting out.

 

[BH]

My mother was a lab tech at a hospital for twenty years. She would tell me stories about how horrible the staff could be to each other and horror stories about care given.

The worst one was a doctor who hated paying taxes for any type of welfare. He would openly brag that anytime a woman was birthing and could not open enough if she had money or insurance he'd wheel her in a do a C-section to get her out of her misery quickly. If she was on any type of assistance he'd make her writh in pain until it wasn't safe to prolong it anymore. . I asked mom why she didn't speak out when she heard him say this. She said it was because she had no witnesses, though a nurse friend told her he said it in front of them often but we're too scared to say anything or they found it funny. that one always bothered mom she couldn't do anything about it.

 

[Toni]

It is my opinion most people are able to do a whole lot more with their lives jobwise and position wise than they ever attain to. The reason for this is that there are not enough jobs to go around for everyone able to do one to have one. Same thing with owning a business. A whole lot of people could own and run one but the economy will only allow so many to exist at a given time.

Totally agree. IMO and for or better or worse, women entering the workforce did not help average jobs become more meaningful, enriched and/or satisfying either. Nor were demographics good for baby boomers (myself included) in a global economy where goods consumed were not required to be produced by babyboomers. All else equal, whenever there is an excess of anything (including labor) it becomes worth less to society. And that's not good for the worker or the small entrepreneur. It basically means a "shit" job for low wages.....just one ladder step up from the Apple workers in China.

So, is it your contention that it was the purpose and duty of women to help average jobs become more meaningful, enriched and/or satisfying?

Do you think that women were obligated to stay home and raise kids and keep house in order to help men feel more job satisfaction?
Do women's lives not have value other than how it benefits men's lives?

In many, many respects, as women of our generation (boomer here) entered the workforce in greater numbers and not merely to fill in for wartime labor shortages, standards of living increased as families could afford more consumer goods, at least by that measure. Women's lives also improved as they were more able to have real choices in their lives and not confined to marriages that they found unsatisfying or even abusive. Their lives had more value that was recognized by monetary benefits, not simply flowers on Mother's Day and if she was lucky, on her wedding anniversary.

In the above paragraph, you seem to regard workers as separate from women who work. Did I misunderstand that?

And while it is true that wages decreased is that not more a function of the decline of labor unions rather than the increase of women in the paid workforce?

Or are you blaming all of society's ills on women wanting to have jobs and careers? And if so, is it not really the fault of men for not being better husbands and fathers and providing enriched, fulfilling lives for women who made the men's careers and family lives possible by serving as uncompensated (and unrecognized) labor?

 

[Toni]

My mother was a lab tech at a hospital for twenty years. She would tell me stories about how horrible the staff could be to each other and horror stories about care given.

The worst one was a doctor who hated paying taxes for any type of welfare. He would openly brag that anytime a woman was birthing and could not open enough if she had money or insurance he'd wheel her in a do a C-section to get her out of her misery quickly. If she was on any type of assistance he'd make her with in pain until it wasn't safe to prolong it anymore. . I asked mom why she didn't speak out when she heard him say this. She said it was because she had no witnesses, though a nurse friend told her he said it in front of them often but we're too scared to say anything or they found it funny. that one always bothered mom she couldn't do anything about it.

Wow. Although on second thought, the misogyny and the class hatred in obstetrics and gynecology is not surprising to most women of my generation or earlier. It's better with more women in the medical profession. especially as physicians.

 

[BH]

A whole lot of people could own and run one but the economy will only allow so many to exist at a given time.

I could never ever ever own and run ANY business by myself. My partners in that last venture were (are) both brilliant business people, replete with basic accounting skills, organizational excellence and a certain flair for design that I lack.

The only time I ever owned a business was when I was in high school. Lol. It was a yard business. I have some money saved up and have tinkered with the idea of opening a big men's clothing and shoe business but the people in my town will spend twenty dollars on gas to go to Dallas to save a dollar on a shirt.

People learn and grow. I don't deny people have special gifts and abilities and I don't begrudge anyone the fruits of legally performed labor but remember the proverb " a man's hunger will drive him to labor" . When people get desperate or have an opportunity they can tend to figure out stuff.

 

[BH]

My mother was a lab tech at a hospital for twenty years. She would tell me stories about how horrible the staff could be to each other and horror stories about care given.

The worst one was a doctor who hated paying taxes for any type of welfare. He would openly brag that anytime a woman was birthing and could not open enough if she had money or insurance he'd wheel her in a do a C-section to get her out of her misery quickly. If she was on any type of assistance he'd make her with in pain until it wasn't safe to prolong it anymore. . I asked mom why she didn't speak out when she heard him say this. She said it was because she had no witnesses, though a nurse friend told her he said it in front of them often but we're too scared to say anything or they found it funny. that one always bothered mom she couldn't do anything about it.

Wow. Although on second thought, the misogyny and the class hatred in obstetrics and gynecology is not surprising to most women of my generation or earlier. It's better with more women in the medical profession. especially as physicians.

Yeah, being a man I'll never go through the pains or danger of bearing a child but to be honest it bothers me a man like that could ever be a doctor. And mom said people were afraid to speak or even more frightenly thought it funny.

 

[BH]

funny story. A competitor came to town and the dm for that store came over and tried to get me to come work for him as a store manager He said the customers were bringing up my name and liked me so he wanted to offer me the job. I interviewed with him and he said he'd run everything through corporate and have an answer in a couple of days. He didn't think there would be any problems.

Turns out he apologized in an email and said corporate went with someone else. From what I understand they have been through 3 managers in the last year and a half being open and they have all been female and black.

My guess is the DMs are told they can only hire a female and/ or minority for that position in that particular store for quota meeting.


It doesn't surprise me. That's how it works. A man a church told me not to even think about applying for the post office he managed because he was told he was only going to be able to hire women this time around. He knew I was unemployed and just didn't want me wasting my time and having a false hope. He went to my church and had enough personal respect to tell me that. He passed away a few years back from a heart attack. Very nice man who want d to do right.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Here is the distillation of my 47 years of full time employment interrupted by one week of unemployment.

Your job is to make money for your employer. If you do that he should share that profit with you. After all, the reason he employed you is because he couldn't get all the work done himself. So if he doesn't share the profits with you you should go elsewhere and keep going elsewhere until you can find an employer who does share profits.

Make personal peace with your job. No job is perfect and all jobs can be stressful and at times unsatisfying. If your current job is your best option and it is making you unhappy but you are unable to find a better job, at least make the effort and do what it takes to make it livable. Do not let it make you miserable. If it makes you miserable despite your best efforts then leave.

Save as much of your earnings as you can and then save more.

 

[BH]

Here is the distillation of my 47 years of full time employment interrupted by one week of unemployment.

Your job is to make money for your employer. If you do that he should share that profit with you. After all, the reason he employed you is because he couldn't get all the work done himself. So if he doesn't share the profits with you you should go elsewhere and keep going elsewhere until you can find an employer who does share profits.

Make personal peace with your job. No job is perfect and all jobs can be stressful and at times unsatisfying. If your current job is your best option and it is making you unhappy but you are unable to find a better job, at least make the effort and do what it takes to make it livable. Do not let it make you miserable. If it makes you miserable despite your best efforts then leave.

Save as much of your earnings as you can and then save more.

I agree with this. You have want to make the world a better place for yourself and others but you have to be realistic and wise. If not you get destroyed. You can debate the merits and demerits of this-ism, that-ism ect all you won't. The revolution and whatever system it's supposed to usher in is like the messiah. It's coming but still not here so we have to make due with what we have.

 

[bilby]

The revolution and whatever system it's supposed to usher in is like the messiah. It's coming but still not here so we have to make due with what we have.

It's not going to happen with that attitude.

If you want a revolution, you're going to have to get off your arse and revolt - take your lead from the French.

Whenever I hear tales of woe from Americans who are being abused, chewed up, and then chucked out with no means of support, by their hideous and evil employment and social systems, I'm amazed that this hasn't yet led to a bloody and vicious uprising by the downtrodden workers.

WTF is wrong with you guys? Why do you put up with this shit?

Occasionally someone gets smart, goes to their workplace, and shoots the joint up. But there's no organisation or planning, and the folks who get shot are usually just bit-part players and unfortunate bystanders, while the kingpins who coordinate the misery of the people remain unscathed and untouched.

Even the notoriously stoic and fatalistic Russians had a revolution against being treated like shit by their aristocracy. But Americans don't even seem to grasp that their aristocracy exists.

The first step to a solution is to admit that you have a problem.

The second step is to build some guillotines.

 

[TomC]

If you want a revolution, you're going to have to get off your arse and revolt - take your lead from the French.

WTF is wrong with you guys? Why do you put up with this shit?

Occasionally someone gets smart, goes to their workplace, and shoots the joint up.

Here's a suggestion you might find amusingly worthwhile.
Google the term "going postal".
Tom

 

[Elixir]

Google the term "going postal".

A UAL gate agent at DIA threatened to have me arrested when I told him someone was going to go postal on them if they kept reneging on their obligations.
That was about 1998, before everything changed. If you told them that today they’d probably just shoot you. Assuming they were not too young to know what it means.

 

[ZiprHead]

The only time I ever owned a business was when I was in high school. Lol. It was a yard business. I have some money saved up and have tinkered with the idea of opening a big men's clothing and shoe business but the people in my town will spend twenty dollars on gas to go to Dallas to save a dollar on a shirt.

You should do it. As a big guy myself I found it disappointing that both the large department stores here in town, Walmart and Meijer, no longer carry the big size stuff in the store. Luckily there's still JC Penney if I had actually needed something.

But I really haven't had to buy clothes since I retired. I actually have way too much now. Lots of business attire I haven't worn in years. Maybe forty or more ties. I should donate some of that stuff to the local homeless shelter.

 

[Toni]

The job is the brass ring, the job is survival, the job is who you are in the eyes of others. The job defines you, refines you, consigns you and confines you.


_____________

From the Harriet T and Ida B Gun Club and Sewing Circle, this is me and I'm jessayin'

Especially if you are a male. Because if you are woman, at least you have a society excuse that your purpose in life is to provide children.

If you are a male with no job sitting in your parents basement there is not much dignity to be had in life.

No. Today’s women—the generations after us boomers—are supposed to have careers—not jobs—careers—and 2 children, a perfectly curated home and garden, an active social life separate from their children plus one that is child friendly. And maintain their high school track speed and waist size. Her husband must be as successful as she is. If sh outearns him, money is never mentioned. Also a puppy ( rescue only), Instagram and TikTok accts. Also two cats.

 

[BH]

The revolution and whatever system it's supposed to usher in is like the messiah. It's coming but still not here so we have to make due with what we have.

It's not going to happen with that attitude.

If you want a revolution, you're going to have to get off your arse and revolt - take your lead from the French.

Whenever I hear tales of woe from Americans who are being abused, chewed up, and then chucked out with no means of support, by their hideous and evil employment and social systems, I'm amazed that this hasn't yet led to a bloody and vicious uprising by the downtrodden workers.

WTF is wrong with you guys? Why do you put up with this shit?

Occasionally someone gets smart, goes to their workplace, and shoots the joint up. But there's no organisation or planning, and the folks who get shot are usually just bit-part players and unfortunate bystanders, while the kingpins who coordinate the misery of the people remain unscathed and untouched.

Even the notoriously stoic and fatalistic Russians had a revolution against being treated like shit by their aristocracy. But Americans don't even seem to grasp that their aristocracy exists.

The first step to a solution is to admit that you have a problem.

The second step is to build some guillotines.

the problem is people don't want to change. Perversely many believe you have no right complain about mistreatment and it's actually wrong of you to do so. many really just want to be rich and abusive themselves. people where I live would kill advocates for universal health care if they could do it and get away with it.

Here ignorance is something be proud of or education not highly respected. The reasoning goes "I'm the manager of the local big box store and how dare you insinuate your better than me cause you went to college. And those PhDs really don't know anything that important. If it was important they would not have to depend on the government teat for their salaries. If I took the time and read fifty books I could know what they know in no time . I proved my self and my knowledge by making it with the market"

I hate to say it but the USA really needs another country to come and knock the shit out of it and throw it against a concrete wall a few times. then maybe, just maybe a lot of bad social myths would get dispelled.

this is what is so scary about Trump, de Santos and others like them. If they actually infiltrate and take over and keep power through sham elections no other country is going to come kick out butts and put us in our place like what happened to Germany in WWII

 

[Ford]

THE JOB IS THE THING

"Lord, I am just blessed to have a job."

How many times have you heard that? How many times have you said that?

How many times have you looked across a counter at a food service worker, or store cashier who wasn't smiling and polite and think, "If you don't want to be here, you should find another job. In times like these you should be thankful just to have a job at all."

Because the job is the thing, right?

The job is what we are looking for, what we should be grateful for, what we will fight for. Politicians and pundits promise and pontificate over jobs. Billionaires pat themselves on the back because "they create" jobs. Corporations get incentives and special considerations in return for providing jobs.

Because the job is the thing, right?

The job is the brass ring, the job is survival, the job is who you are in the eyes of others. The job defines you, refines you, consigns you and confines you.

The job is why otherwise grown men and women become child-like, bashful and afraid when they hear these words "I would like to see you in my office."

The job is why while your child has played soccer for three years, you have memories of seeing the last ten minutes of three games to show for it.

Because the job is the thing, right?

Now do not get me wrong. Work is a good thing, a necessary thing, even a spiritual thing. But we are not talking about work. We are talking about jobs.

Jobs. Those units of work we have compartmentalized, routinized, scrutinized and commodified. Jobs are the way employers have dressed up their need for you to do their work in a drag of fulfilling your need for security. Employers have employees believing that working for the employer is a favor the employer is doing for the employee. The opposite is the truth. The employer needs the employee, and the employee is doing this job often at rock bottom prices so it is the employee who is doing the favor.

I am reminded of Blind Tom Stringfield, my great-great-grandfather. He was born with a job. It was called slave. And his massa told him he was blessed too.

So the next time you look across that counter at the person who isn't smiling and happy and bubbling with glee, maybe it's because that person has figured out exactly who is being blessed with his or her labor.

_____________

From the Harriet T and Ida B Gun Club and Sewing Circle, this is me and I'm jessayin'

Reminds me of something I used to say when I was that person behind the counter during that first year of the pandemic. When I was an "essential worker" getting paid "just barely what we can get away with" wages. I would say "at least I have what about 25 million people don't have right now...a job."

It was a big wake up call, because it came about a year after I'd been laid off from a job I loved and had done for a long time. One that paid fairly well, and where I was doing creative work and not just simple drudgery or forcing a smile for a customer. One where I was appreciated and rewarded...until the company got bought out and some accountant figured my salary would be spent better on...nobody.

It took about a year to finally find the new "career path" that I'm on now. I don't get to flex my creative muscles as much, but I use my brain in other ways as opposed to my ability to mop a floor. I like this job. Am I a cog in a wheel? Yes, but I'm a well-paid cog in a much nicer wheel. The more important part is that - like in the previous career - I feel valued. When I was working that "essential worker" thing, the manager told me exactly once during my time there that I was doing a good job...and grudgingly at that.

When I switched departments at my current company, my supervisors in that department were actually upset that I was leaving them. "We need you!" When I got promoted in this department, it was "there's a reason you got this." It's not just a job. It's...well let's let an imitation President spell it out:




"It's not about the paycheck. It's about respect. It's about looking in the mirror, and knowing that you've done something valuable with your day."

A lot of people in a lot of jobs (behind the counter) don't have that. They're treated like fodder. The store where I worked 2 years ago did a number of things to keep their employees down. Like changing your schedule every week so you couldn't get another job if you wanted to. Or setting a condition where you could be considered "full time" and get benefits if you worked X amount of 40 hour weeks in a row, and then the week before you hit that threshold give you a 30 hour week so you had to start all over again.

The employer needs the employee, and the employee is doing this job often at rock bottom prices so it is the employee who is doing the favor.

Or to put it another way, there are some employers who view employees not as an asset, but as a liability. Not "we're happy to have you here doing this job," but "we'd love it if we could do this without you, but we have to suffer your presence so we can make money off your labor."

 

[bilby]

Here's a suggestion you might find amusingly worthwhile.
Google the term "going postal".

Here's a suggestion you might find amusingly worthwhile.

Google the term "condescending assumption".

 

[Toni]

The revolution and whatever system it's supposed to usher in is like the messiah. It's coming but still not here so we have to make due with what we have.

It's not going to happen with that attitude.

If you want a revolution, you're going to have to get off your arse and revolt - take your lead from the French.

Whenever I hear tales of woe from Americans who are being abused, chewed up, and then chucked out with no means of support, by their hideous and evil employment and social systems, I'm amazed that this hasn't yet led to a bloody and vicious uprising by the downtrodden workers.

WTF is wrong with you guys? Why do you put up with this shit?

Occasionally someone gets smart, goes to their workplace, and shoots the joint up. But there's no organisation or planning, and the folks who get shot are usually just bit-part players and unfortunate bystanders, while the kingpins who coordinate the misery of the people remain unscathed and untouched.

Even the notoriously stoic and fatalistic Russians had a revolution against being treated like shit by their aristocracy. But Americans don't even seem to grasp that their aristocracy exists.

The first step to a solution is to admit that you have a problem.

The second step is to build some guillotines.

the problem is people don't want to change. Perversely many believe you have no right complain about mistreatment and it's actually wrong of you to do so. many really just want to be rich and abusive themselves. people where I live would kill advocates for universal health care if they could do it and get away with it.

Here ignorance is something be proud of or education not highly respected. The reasoning goes "I'm the manager of the local big box store and how dare you insinuate your better than me cause you went to college. And those PhDs really don't know anything that important. If it was important they would not have to depend on the government teat for their salaries. If I took the time and read fifty books I could know what they know in no time . I proved my self and my knowledge by making it with the market"

I hate to say it but the USA really needs another country to come and knock the shit out of it and throw it against a concrete wall a few times. then maybe, just maybe a lot of bad social myths would get dispelled.

this is what is so scary about Trump, de Santos and others like them. If they actually infiltrate and take over and keep power through sham elections no other country is going to come kick out butts and put us in our place like what happened to Germany in WWII

We’re kicking ourselves into oblivion, just using Trump and DeSantis to do it for us, too many people listening to their fairy tales about it being the fault of brown skinned immigrants and ungrateful black people.

 

[Lumpenproletariat]

What if the elephant man wants a job but keeps getting rejected because he's ugly? Should anything be changed which would allow him to stop being discriminated against? excluded?

This is someone who has all the abilities to perform the work just as well as anyone else (and perhaps not in a very conspicuous or public place where he'd be over-exposed to public view).

(Incidentally, there are plenty of "elephant men" in our society today, and they are effectively excluded from the work force -- this is not about ancient history. They exist today, just as extreme as the famous one we know about from history.)

Maybe the correct question is: What is our rationale today which says all these types are to be excluded from the discussion about "jobs" etc.? Why must these be excluded -- from having a job, and from any discussion about jobs and discrimination?