The Manhood Trap

[Jimmy Higgins]

What they shouldn't be doing is driving away heterosexual young men, but they have been quite successful at doing it.

I'm gonna be 56 next months, so I can let all this bullshit hostility towards "heteronormative" males slide off my back. However, if I was a young man, I'd run from the Democrats and the radical morons running the party.

Academia too, as it is dominated by leftists.
This is a real poster from Coastal Carolina University.

Will our resident radfems defend this poster and the blatantly sexist message it sends?

It sends a few messages.
1) Men should THINK with their brain
2) It does send a mistaken message regarding a guy being able to consent while drunk
3) Having drunk sex comes with risk. Hoping she'll be cool with it when she becomes sober is kind of a self-admission you don't know where they stand on consent.

 

[Toni]

Why do I keep hearing that young men feel "left behind" when in reality, it's just the opportunity gap was finally closing (WAS). Why do men feel like they've been 'left behind'?

Because there are many institutions treating women favorably, even where (such as in college) the opportunity gap has long since reversed polarity.

Shouldn’t women be treated favorably? And should men not be treated favorably? People should be treated favorably unless there is a reason for the individual to not be treated favorably. Everyone should be treated fairly.

I do find it concerning that only about 40% of college students are male. Some of this is explained because more jobs/careers that do not require a college degree are mostly filled by men.

 

[TomC]

It sends a few messages.
1) Men should THINK with their brain
2) It does send a mistaken message regarding a guy being able to consent while drunk
3) Having drunk sex comes with risk. Hoping she'll be cool with it when she becomes sober is kind of a self-admission you don't know where they stand on consent.

This post does an excellent job of illustrating the point:

Will our resident radfems defend this poster and the blatantly sexist message it sends?

Jimmy, you are defending the point that women are incapable. They lack the capacity for agency or responsibility for their choices.

I don't agree at all. On the whole, women are more vulnerable. Men tend towards more predatory behavior than women. That's also the reason I don't think that males are entitled to use women's restrooms. But that poster and your response to it are pretty darned dismissive of women's independence.
Tom

 

[WAB]

Well I must be an anomaly, as I'm a hetero male who has always preferred the company of women.

I don't see what I'm supposed to get from this snippet. If it means that it's normal and common for men to prefer the company of men, yeah I know. That's why I said I was an anomaly.

I don't mind being an anomaly. And I'm not trying to virtue signal. I've said it tons of times over my 21 years here.

And it's not even about opportunities for intimacy. I'm 61, and a hetero male, and have had sex with only 2 women in my entire life. Two. One was my wife, and the other a long term girlfriend. I'm not exactly a player. In fact I haven't had sex since 2009.

I just would really, really, rather be around women.

 

[Toni]

It sends a few messages.
1) Men should THINK with their brain
2) It does send a mistaken message regarding a guy being able to consent while drunk
3) Having drunk sex comes with risk. Hoping she'll be cool with it when she becomes sober is kind of a self-admission you don't know where they stand on consent.

This post does an excellent job of illustrating the point:

Will our resident radfems defend this poster and the blatantly sexist message it sends?

Jimmy, you are defending the point that women are incapable. They lack the capacity for agency or responsibility for their choices.

I don't agree at all. On the whole, women are more vulnerable. Men tend towards more predatory behavior than women. That's also the reason I don't think that males are entitled to use women's restrooms. But that poster and your response to it are pretty darned dismissive of women's independence.
Tom

Fucking bullshit.

I have known plenty of women who have engaged in fully consensual drunken sex, with and without regrets. No one felt it was rape even if they regretted the lapse in judgement.

OTOH, I’ve stopped a line of guys who were intending to take turns on a girl who was so drunk she could not stand on her own, much less make any kind of decision.

I also was once assaulted/attempted more by a guy who thought because I was drunk, I was easy/fair game because I was drunk so unlikely to fend him off, especially since he was sober and quite a bit bigger than I was. He was wrong. Now, I was lucky because there were people nearby who came when they heard the noise but so was he lucky because I was wailing the daylights out of him.

Women feel far less guilt or remorse for having sex than some men like to imagine—even if they regret having sex or having sex with that particular guy, or because the sex was bad, as it often is if drugs or alcohol are involved.

It’s not guilt. It’s not remorse that brings women and girls to allege rape. It’s rape. Frankly more rape victims don’t report rape than do. And a lot of rape victims are in denial that it was rape, even as they describe trying to get away or saying no, repeatedly.

Bringing rape charges is not an easy or enjoyable thing to do.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

It sends a few messages.
1) Men should THINK with their brain
2) It does send a mistaken message regarding a guy being able to consent while drunk
3) Having drunk sex comes with risk. Hoping she'll be cool with it when she becomes sober is kind of a self-admission you don't know where they stand on consent.

This post does an excellent job of illustrating the point:

Will our resident radfems defend this poster and the blatantly sexist message it sends?

Jimmy, you are defending the point that women are incapable. They lack the capacity for agency or responsibility for their choices.

This would be the whole "being drunk" or "impaired" would imply. As I noted, this applies to both parties.

I don't agree at all. On the whole, women are more vulnerable. Men tend towards more predatory behavior than women. That's also the reason I don't think that males are entitled to use women's restrooms. But that poster and your response to it are pretty darned dismissive of women's independence.

You misspelled "drunk women".

 

[ZiprHead]

I don't agree at all. On the whole, women are more vulnerable. Men tend towards more predatory behavior than women. That's also the reason I don't think that males are entitled to use women's restrooms. But that poster and your response to it are pretty darned dismissive of women's independence.

You misspelled "drunk women".

Seems pretty ironic to me. On the one hand, men are more predatory (probably even moreso when drunk) but drunk women have agency to stop being raped.

 

[TomC]

This would be the whole "being drunk" or "impaired" would imply. As I noted, this applies to both parties.

You did NOT note that.

It was all about how men should take responsibility for dumbass drunken behavior. Of course, I agree. Drinking until you have seriously impaired judgement is an extremely bad choice. But it is a choice. Including when women do it. They should also take responsibility for their choices, including the alcohol consumption.
Tom

 

[TomC]

Seems pretty ironic to me. On the one hand, men are more predatory (probably even moreso when drunk) but drunk women have agency to stop being raped.

Nonsense.
We all have the ability to choose against getting drunk. Including women.
Tom

 

[Toni]

I don't agree at all. On the whole, women are more vulnerable. Men tend towards more predatory behavior than women. That's also the reason I don't think that males are entitled to use women's restrooms. But that poster and your response to it are pretty darned dismissive of women's independence.

You misspelled "drunk women".

Seems pretty ironic to me. On the one hand, men are more predatory (probably even moreso when drunk) but drunk women have agency to stop being raped.

Ah, the old: if you didn’t want to be raped, you should not have:
1.Had a drink
2. Had too much to drink
3. Worn that dress/skirt/shirt/tight jeans/heels
4. Gone out at night
5. gone out with that guy
6. Let him buy you a drink/dinner/flowers/movie or concert tickets
7. Let him/them give you a ride home
8. Opened the door
9. Married him
10. Not had a dead bolt lock and full security camera/alarm on and engaged
11. Been so flirtatious with your dad/step-dad/ grandfather/uncle/brother/stepbrother/cousin or any of their friends/teacher/coach/stranger driving past you on the street! Why were you out without a male protector???

Or dozens of other stupid reasons it’s the girl/woman’s fault she was assaulted.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

This would be the whole "being drunk" or "impaired" would imply. As I noted, this applies to both parties.

You did NOT note that.

The poster image that was shared was the subject of my post. The poster was discussing sex between two drunk people. How can the context be anything other than drunk?

It was all about how men should take responsibility for dumbass drunken behavior. Of course, I agree. Drinking until you have seriously impaired judgement is an extremely bad choice. But it is a choice. Including when women do it. They should also take responsibility for their choices, including the alcohol consumption.

I know you just didn't mean to say drunk women are responsible for their own rape... but jebus... it is written so poorly to be easily mistaken as meaning that.

 

[Toni]

Seems pretty ironic to me. On the one hand, men are more predatory (probably even moreso when drunk) but drunk women have agency to stop being raped.

Nonsense.
We all have the ability to choose against getting drunk. Including women.
Tom

Of course it’s a woman’s fault if she is roofied. She should have been home with her grandmother, studying the Bible.

Not sure how that applies to my school friend’s grandmother who was raped in her own home by an intruder in the middle of the night. The police tried to blame it on my friend, who was a wonderful person who was seriously neglected by her parents, and spending the summer whith her grandmother. My friend dressed in her grandmother’s hand me downs and things from Goodwill and charity bins. Her hair was always greasy and she had a chronic sinus infection and very thick glasses.

 

[Toni]

This would be the whole "being drunk" or "impaired" would imply. As I noted, this applies to both parties.

You did NOT note that.

The poster image that was shared was the subject of my post. The poster was discussing sex between two drunk people. How can the context be anything other than drunk?

It was all about how men should take responsibility for dumbass drunken behavior. Of course, I agree. Drinking until you have seriously impaired judgement is an extremely bad choice. But it is a choice. Including when women do it. They should also take responsibility for their choices, including the alcohol consumption.

I know you just didn't mean to say drunk women are responsible for their own rape... but jebus... it is written so poorly to be easily mistaken as meaning that.

No, he means that women who get drunk are responsible for whatever sex happens because if she didn’t want it, she should not have been drinking.

You know, just like when two drunks leave a bar and one starts walking and the other gets into his car and drives off, striking the drunk pedestrian. Both are equally to blame.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

There are things people can do to limit the risk of being the victim of a crime. Locking doors and windows can help keep a home from being burgled. But if a drunk person goes home and leaves the door unlocked before they crash on their bed... are we providing guilt for them being robbed that night... because they were drunk?

Some men seem almost reflexive on this... as if in self-defense.

I know you just didn't mean to say drunk women are responsible for their own rape... but jebus... it is written so poorly to be easily mistaken as meaning that.

No, he means that women who get drunk are responsible for whatever sex happens because if she didn’t want it, she should not have been drinking.

You know, just like when two drunks leave a bar and one starts walking and the other gets into his car and drives off, striking the drunk pedestrian. Both are equally to blame.

What was the drunk pedestrian wearing?

 

[TomC]

The poster image that was shared was the subject of my post. The poster was discussing sex between two drunk people. How can the context be anything other than drunk?

Where did you note that it applies to both parties?
If two drunk people have stupid, irresponsible, sex it's stupid irresponsible sex. Why is it automatically the dudes fault? Why is he a criminal and she is a victim?

I see that as dismissal of the agency of women. Patriarchal as Moses.
Tom

 

[TomC]

No, he means that women who get drunk are responsible for whatever sex happens because if she didn’t want it, she should not have been drinking.

Sometimes, misrepresentation and strawman arguments reach the level of flat out lie. I said no such thing.
Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The poster image that was shared was the subject of my post. The poster was discussing sex between two drunk people. How can the context be anything other than drunk?

Where did you note that it applies to both parties?

It was point 2 in my 3 point list. You quoted it... but clearly didn't read it.

If two drunk people have stupid, irresponsible, sex it's stupid irresponsible sex. Why is it automatically the dudes fault? Why is he a criminal and she is a victim?

The guy can be the victim too. But cases of girls raping men are fewer. So the poster is going with the more common problem.

 

[Toni]

The poster image that was shared was the subject of my post. The poster was discussing sex between two drunk people. How can the context be anything other than drunk?

Where did you note that it applies to both parties?
If two drunk people have stupid, irresponsible, sex it's stupid irresponsible sex. Why is it automatically the dudes fault? Why is he a criminal and she is a victim?

I see that as dismissal of the agency of women. Patriarchal as Moses.
Tom

Don’t you think it depends on a number of factors?

If one of them says no or indicates they want to stop, and the other disregards, it’s take, no matter who is drunk.

If one is passed out and the other continues, it is rape, even if the person committing the sex act is also drunk.

If two people each have 4 beers, both are likely to be at least somewhat drunk. If one is a woman, she is likely to be much drunker than the man because of body mass and the fact that women tend to be more likely to get drunk on any given amount of alcohol than are men.

 

[TomC]

Of course it’s a woman’s fault if she is roofied.

I've never said anything like that. And I say that as someone who has been roofied. Roofied and drunk are not the same thing.
Tom

 

[Toni]

Of course it’s a woman’s fault if she is roofied.

I've never said anything like that. And I say that as someone who has been roofied. Roofied and drunk are not the same thing.
Tom

They are not the same thing. But they are also not mutually exclusive.

So you are able to have some sense of empathy if you have had a similar unpleasant experience.

Now try harder and imagine what it is like to have something unpleasant happen to you even if that unpleasant thing has not happened to you.

I’ll go first:
I’ve never been robbed at gunpoint but I feel a great deal of sympathy for anyone who has, even if they were drunk off their ass at the time. It still wasn’t their fault. Even if there wasn’t a gun or knife involved, it still wasn’t their fault. Robbing people is wrong.

So is raping someone. No matter how drunk either of you were.