The meaning of infinity

[DBT]

Only something finite can be complete.

That is why you have the (...).

It means it never is complete.

It has no final value.

Not according to the given definition of Infinity. You appear to be formulating your own definition.

The definition of infinite is without end.

Like the positive integers.

No end.

No final integer.

If something is without end, space, multiverse, etc, it is - by definition - Infinite. It i you who happens to be adding another condition, a condition that is not part of the definition of infinite.

Your claim of infinity 'never completing' therefore ''cannot exist'' is a bogus condition.

 

[untermensche]

The definition of infinite is without end.

Like the positive integers.

No end.

No final integer.

If something is without end, space, multiverse, etc, it is - by definition - Infinite.

If something is infinite it is without end. Like the integers.

Is reciting all the integers something that could ever occur?

Because it is as possible as infinite time occurring. Infinite time means infinite events. Events that go on forever and do not end.

One could say the future is infinite if you say it will never end. So you are saying it can move towards infinity but you cannot say it got there.

You cannot say the past WAS infinite. It ends at the present.

Nothing WAS infinite. An infinity is not something that completes.

 

[fromderinside]

Ah, but we are mere mortals with limited view and understanding. If something goes beyond our comprehension it is, to us, infinite. We are in no position to declare otherwise. if there is no mechanism which constrains counting can not counting continue indefinitely, infinitely?

It i a fallacy to take the obvious fact that we are limited beings as criteria against the notion of infinity. You take away any hope of empirical evidence for finding such status by asserting an impossibility as reason for non-existence. One does not give another three inches of rope and expect one to successfully climb down more than 10,000 feet.

Secondly asserting we have imagination doesn't overcome such impossibilities. Obviously our imaginations are as limited as are our permanence or presence throughout the world at time t=0

Surely I would not trust the opinion of another limited being on that. It wouldn't be logical to do so.

 

[untermensche]

You sound as if we discovered infinity somewhere.

We invented it. It came from the dirt not the heavens.

It is not something that can rationally be applied to reality.

It only has meaning in the imaginary world of points and lines.

 

[DBT]

The definition of infinite is without end.

Like the positive integers.

No end.

No final integer.

If something is without end, space, multiverse, etc, it is - by definition - Infinite.

If something is infinite it is without end. Like the integers.

Is reciting all the integers something that could ever occur?

Because it is as possible as infinite time occurring. Infinite time means infinite events. Events that go on forever and do not end.

One could say the future is infinite if you say it will never end. So you are saying it can move towards infinity but you cannot say it got there.

You cannot say the past WAS infinite. It ends at the present.

Nothing WAS infinite. An infinity is not something that completes.

It is always the Present. It is never the Past. It is never the Future.

 

[untermensche]

If something is infinite it is without end. Like the integers.

Is reciting all the integers something that could ever occur?

Because it is as possible as infinite time occurring. Infinite time means infinite events. Events that go on forever and do not end.

One could say the future is infinite if you say it will never end. So you are saying it can move towards infinity but you cannot say it got there.

You cannot say the past WAS infinite. It ends at the present.

Nothing WAS infinite. An infinity is not something that completes.

It is always the Present. It is never the Past. It is never the Future.

It is always a different present.

The past are the events that have occurred already.

An infinite past would mean infinite events.

Since all the events in the past are ended, in the sense that no new events in the past will somehow occur at any present moment, they could not have been infinite.

Infinities do not end.

 

[DBT]

If something is infinite it is without end. Like the integers.

Is reciting all the integers something that could ever occur?

Because it is as possible as infinite time occurring. Infinite time means infinite events. Events that go on forever and do not end.

One could say the future is infinite if you say it will never end. So you are saying it can move towards infinity but you cannot say it got there.

You cannot say the past WAS infinite. It ends at the present.

Nothing WAS infinite. An infinity is not something that completes.

It is always the Present. It is never the Past. It is never the Future.

It is always a different present.

Didn't say or claim otherwise. Relativity, etc.

The past are the events that have occurred already.

Obviously. Hence past events are not present events.

An infinite past would mean infinite events.

Infinite numbers of events. not ''infinite events''

Since all the events in the past are ended, in the sense that no new events in the past will somehow occur at any present moment, they could not have been infinite.

Infinities do not end.

You appear to be confusing or conflating finite events within an infinite system and the system as a whole. Objects and events within the system may come and go, being finite, yet the system at large, being infinite and eternal, eg, infinite space in which universes eternally appear (quantum fluctuations) and die their heat deaths.

 

[fromderinside]

You sound as if we discovered infinity somewhere.

We invented it. It came from the dirt not the heavens.

It is not something that can rationally be applied to reality.

It only has meaning in the imaginary world of points and lines.

I see. Rather than deal with the problem change the subject. Establish or change goal posts, and run your keyboard.

 

[untermensche]

An infinite past would mean infinite events.

Infinite numbers of events. not ''infinite events''

An event is any change at all. If a water molecule vibrates that is an event.

Infinite time means infinite changes, or infinite events.

You appear to be confusing or conflating finite events within an infinite system and the system as a whole.

This statement makes no sense.

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You sound as if we discovered infinity somewhere.

We invented it. It came from the dirt not the heavens.

It is not something that can rationally be applied to reality.

It only has meaning in the imaginary world of points and lines.

I see. Rather than deal with the problem change the subject. Establish or change goal posts, and run your keyboard.

You have no point to address.

You barely are coherent.

 

[DBT]

An event is any change at all. If a water molecule vibrates that is an event.

Infinite time means infinite changes, or infinite events.

Infinite space may have an infinite number of finite events, as I've already said.

This statement makes no sense.

It makes sense. Again, infinite space may be have bubble universes that appear and dissipate over vast periods of time (events being time). Space being the infinite/eternal background or matrix in which finite objects and events, bubble universes, emerge (quantum fluctuations) and dissipate (heat death).

 

[untermensche]

An event is any change at all. If a water molecule vibrates that is an event.

Infinite time means infinite changes, or infinite events.

Infinite space may have an infinite number of finite events, as I've already said.

Yes I heard you.

If you pretend hard enough an infinity can be real.

If you just wish hard enough the baby Jesus will make an infinity for you.

What you are saying is IF we just pretend an infinity can be there then one can.

That is the worst argument ever made.

You have to prove an infinity could be there.

Not merely pretend one could be there.

I can prove one cannot be there.

If I have to wait an infinity of time before yesterday will occur then it never will occur.

Yesterday did occur.

Therefore an infinity of time did not take place before it.

An infinity of time can never take place.

Like the infinite integers. It goes on without even the possibility of ending.

There is no last integer. There is no last moment of infinite time.

It could not have occurred before yesterday.

 

[DBT]

I can prove one cannot be there.

If I have to wait an infinity of time before yesterday will occur then it never will occur.

You don't have to wait for the present moment to arrive, it is always here and now. There is no waiting, never has been.

 

[untermensche]

I can prove one cannot be there.

If I have to wait an infinity of time before yesterday will occur then it never will occur.

You don't have to wait for the present moment to arrive, it is always here and now. There is no waiting, never has been.

Again.

It is always a DIFFERENT here and now.

Infinite here and nows could not have occurred before yesterday.

 

[DBT]

I can prove one cannot be there.

If I have to wait an infinity of time before yesterday will occur then it never will occur.

You don't have to wait for the present moment to arrive, it is always here and now. There is no waiting, never has been.

Again.

It is always a DIFFERENT here and now.

Different objects and events happening in the present...ever changing, but still the present moment. A present moment that requires no waiting for its arrival.

We don't have to wait an eternity for the present to arrive. It is alway here and now in relation to an observer.

Infinite here and nows could not have occurred before yesterday.

It doesn't have to.

 

[untermensche]

Again.

It is always a DIFFERENT here and now.

Different objects and events happening in the present...ever changing, but still the present moment. A present moment that requires no waiting for its arrival.

Is the presidential election of 2020 happening now?

Or is it a future event?

There is the now and there are past events and there are future events.

We are talking about past events, not the present.

Past events could not have been infinite.

Infinite here and nows could not have occurred before yesterday.

It doesn't have to.

Infinite time in the past means infinite "here and nows" in the past. It means infinite events, infinite changes took place in the past.

It means an infinity somehow completed. A clear contradiction since infinities do not complete ever. They have no possibility of completing. That is how they are defined.

 

[untermensche]

Above is one half of an argument.

There are also those that talk of time existing but never beginning.

Pure absurdity.

If something does not begin it does not exist. It never was.

This half of the argument is so absurd it is sometimes neglected since it is so easy to dismiss with the flick of the wrist.

 

[Kharakov]

How would 0.111... = 1 be an improvement?

.111... + .999... = 10

A very elegant result!

It's tied to my theory about who #2 works for. Say 10.

 

[Jokodo]

Everything I've said in this thread can be found in the maths textbooks, so these ideas are hardly my "idiosyncrasies".

I guess you don't know what that word means. You don't know maths or basic English.

Ah well.

When people share arbitrary idiosyncrasies that doesn't make them less than arbitrary idiosyncrasies.

Mathematics is a lot of arbitrary definitions. It is entirely man-made. There is no real connection to the world. It is all ideal.

0.999... is an undefined entity.

The operation of unending 9's is defined but because it is unending the thing itself is always undefined.

It has no final value.

So you can arbitrarily say it is equal to 1.000...

That is meaningless.

Especially since it is moving ever closer and closer to 1.0000....

There is nothing else between it and 1.000...

Only an ever shrinking distance.

Do you understand that the decimal representation of 1/9 is 0.111...?

Do you understand that it follows from the fact that 0.1 * 9 = 0.9, 0.01 * 9 = 0.09 etc. that 0.111... = 0.999...?

By saying that 0.999... is not equal 1.0 you're doing one of two things: claiming that 9/9 does not equal 1, or demonstrating that you don't understand decimal notations. Which one is it?

 

[Jokodo]

If something does not begin it does not exist. It never was.

Tell me again, where does the equator begin?

 

[untermensche]

Do you understand that the decimal representation of 1/9 is 0.111...?

That is a idiosyncratic notation for an infinite series.

But it is always only a partial representation of 1/9.

It is impossible to represent 1/9 in decimal form. All you can do is create a notation to mean "go on forever".

Do you understand that it follows from the fact that 0.1 * 9 = 0.9, 0.01 * 9 = 0.09 etc. that 0.111... = 0.999...?

"0.111... = 0.999..."

Are you sure about that?

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If something does not begin it does not exist. It never was.

Tell me again, where does the equator begin?

Show me where it is.