The Morality of Atheism

[Voland0]

Those who suspect the morality of atheists do so because their reckoning of cause-and-effect has been poisoned by proponents of religious delusions, who attempt to inculcate fear along with devotion akin to Stockholm syndrome. The fact is that the basis of all morality is the identification of an observer with the observed, wherein the neural paths that process pleasure and pain are activated when we see others in those states. Initial results of analysis or study attribute this to "mirror neurons".

Religious indoctrination can work against morality, by programming other associations with out-group members, making them enemies.

Again the word atheist has no real meaning as to any beliefs, it is a rejection of deities not an afirmation of a belif.

Yes, while the article mentioned in the OP was titled "The Morality of Atheism", those of us in the know realize that no morality, or immorality, arises from Atheism. Hence, the discussion, as in the OP, is about the morality of atheists, as I have in my first sentence. So, why are you repeating, "Again...", as though you are teaching me?

What you said is applicable to any human social group. China's forced social and political conformity. North Korea. Cuba. Democrats and Republicans over here.

It seems as though you are objecting to my pointing out the degrading of natural morality by religious indoctrination. The discussion is about degrees of morality between non-religious (atheist) and religious people.

Have you decided you're going to contend with me on everything because I challenged what you posted in another thread?

I know about mirror neurons. What does that have to do with the OP?
The OP is abut religious vs atheist values.

The true source of morality is a germane comment in any discussion of morality. I introduced this by observing the origin of the prejudice of many religious people against atheists, which was discussed in the OP: "Many will find such news worrisome, given the widespread prejudice that nonreligious people are, at root, immoral. After all, if you don’t believe in God, how can you be moral?"

I suspect that, if you weren't knee-jerk reacting against me, you could have fit these things together.

As a naturalist, weak agnostic, strong atheist how do you derive your morality and sense of right and wrong? As compared to Christians and the bible.

I can never understand mixed atheism, you either accept or reject religious gods or you don't.

I think it ought to be obvious from my first comment that my morality is based on identification, that I don't wish to be in pain, but in pleasure, and, so, default to wishing the same for others, besides any other motivations. I don't "derive" my morality, though I may make rules to reinforce it from other urges by formulating ethics. I derive my ethics from the some version of the "Golden Rule" appropriate to the occasion, most basically, "don't do to others what I wish they don't do to me".

My atheism is not "mixed". It is strong & pure: I believe there are no gods, nor any angels, demons, sprites, fairies, devas, jiin, or any non-corporial spirit of any kind.

Philosophically, I specify "weak agnostic", because I recognize the impossibility of proving that there are no beings in such a class, though, as to any specific claim, such as the Bible god, I am "strong gnostic", meaning I can prove, by self-contradiction, it ain't so. Perhaps you'll understand better after a careful reading of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_and_positive_atheism

 

[steve_bank]

I don't have any idea of what you mean by 'natural morality. Does tht mean there is some morality defined in the natural environment? Natural mprality to mean kill or be killed. Run fast or get eaten for lunch.

In a sense reilgion and human morality is an attempt to soften our natural human genetic instincts.

My point in several threads is that you can not just single out relgion as if it is the one source of what we may call immorality. Right now before our eyes we are watching extreme nationalism and personal power by Russia devastating Ukraine. Atheist ideolgies enacted by Stalin and Mao led to widespread suffering and oppression, and abuse of power. In the 19th century it was communism.

Today in this country region is an issue, but far more threteni g is the rise of authoritarianism on the right, the rise of Donald Trump. We had a defacto coup attempt by Trump.

Christians range from the liberal gay to the conservative homophobic. I expect atheists run the same general gamut. I expect there are atheist racists and homophobes.

I generrly align with freetought and naturalism.

Avoid being restricted by -isms and -ologies looking at issues without bias as much as possible.

By definition all that exists is natural. There can be no supernatural. If a ghost exists even if we can not determin the causalities involved is natural not supernatural.

Morality is a social consensus.

 

[Voland0]

I don't have any idea of what you mean by 'natural morality. Does tht mean there is some morality defined in the natural environment? Natural mprality to mean kill or be killed. Run fast or get eaten for lunch.

Since I have said that morality is based on identification, through the action, perhaps, of "mirror neurons", what you ought to have understood by "natural morality" is morality that arises out of our biology, that we feel for others, and share their pain or pleasure, to some degree. The opposite of this could be 'trained morality', acquired by indoctrination.

"Kill or be killed" is selfishness, not morality. "Run fast" is defensiveness, not morality. These are natural urges competing with natural morality.

Ethics arise to prevent the guilt feelings we have when we let those other urges override our moral urges. 'Don't do this... do this, instead.'

In a sense reilgion and human morality is an attempt to soften our natural human genetic instincts.

I think this is what I mean by "ethics".

My point in several threads is that you can not just single out relgion as if it is the one source of what we may call immorality.

And I have not done this. What I've said is that religions can degrade natural morality by programming hostility to out-group members.

Right now before our eyes we are watching extreme nationalism and personal power by Russia devastating Ukraine. Atheist ideolgies enacted by Stalin and Mao led to widespread suffering and oppression, and abuse of power.

None of the communist atrocities were for the purpose of fostering Atheism, but for suppressing dissent and otherwise gaining or reinforcing power.

Morality is a social consensus.

Moral standards are of social consensus, leading to formulation of ethics, codified morality. Morality is ingrained, an emergent property of our brains. See "mirror neurons", above.

 

[steve_bank]

Ok on natural morality. Thanks for the elaboration. I assuned it ment something natural intrinsic to nature.

I think oiu are sting the obvious in a complicated way. It is a social consensus. Morality does not necessarily mean empathy. Empathy and a concern for ohters in the west does cme out of Christianity. Humanism came out of Chrtianity.

To me morality is a code of behavior, ethics is how you adhere to the moral code.

To an ancient Samurai commuting suicide under the Bushido mortal code was the right thing to do. It would be unethical to avoid killing yourself when ordered or shamed.

The 10 Commandments and Leviticus were about social stability in the tribe. Marriage to prevent male conflict. Don't steal or lie.

Russian and Chinese communism were ideologicaly atheist. China is. They tried to suppress it but failed. They try try to control it by approving relgious groyps and venues and apportioning clerics. I belive the CCP presumed to appoint the next Dali :ama. The Russian revolutionaries had good cause to hate religion, it was an arm of stae and oppressive. Russian and Chinese communism were variations on Mark.

The conclusions are unavoidable. Given power atheist ideologies will be just as immoral as theism can be.

Try bringing bibles or other religious literature into North Korea.

Like it or not etern liberal democracies with roots in Chrtianity evolved to a set of fumdamnat rights protectd by government.

Communist atheist based ideoligies have been the polar oposite.

 

[southernhybrid]

Ok on natural morality. Thanks for the elaboration. I assuned it ment something natural intrinsic to nature.

I think oiu are sting the obvious in a complicated way. It is a social consensus. Morality does not necessarily mean empathy. Empathy and a concern for ohters in the west does cme out of Christianity. Humanism came out of Chrtianity.

To me morality is a code of behavior, ethics is how you adhere to the moral code.

To an ancient Samurai commuting suicide under the Bushido mortal code was the right thing to do. It would be unethical to avoid killing yourself when ordered or shamed.

The 10 Commandments and Leviticus were about social stability in the tribe. Marriage to prevent male conflict. Don't steal or lie.

Russian and Chinese communism were ideologicaly atheist. China is. They tried to suppress it but failed. They try try to control it by approving relgious groyps and venues and apportioning clerics. I belive the CCP presumed to appoint the next Dali :ama. The Russian revolutionaries had good cause to hate religion, it was an arm of stae and oppressive. Russian and Chinese communism were variations on Mark.

The conclusions are unavoidable. Given power atheist ideologies will be just as immoral as theism can be.

Try bringing bibles or other religious literature into North Korea.

Like it or not etern liberal democracies with roots in Chrtianity evolved to a set of fumdamnat rights protectd by government.

Communist atheist based ideoligies have been the polar oposite.

I don't have the time or motivation to refute many of your claims, but your claim that humanism was based on Christianity is totally wrong.

Humanist principles were around prior to the time of Confucius. Further more, it's impossible to have morality without empathy, although it's true that sometimes empathy can cause problems, like for example in war. But, that's not the topic we're discussing. If we were more like bonobos and less like chimps, there wouldn't be any wars.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confucius

Confucius considered himself a transmitter for the values of earlier periods which he claimed had been abandoned in his time. His philosophical teachings, called Confucianism, emphasized personal and governmental morality, correctness of social relationships, justice, kindness, and sincerity.

Apparently, the principles oh humanism are ancient, established well before Christianity, even if the name Humanism wasn't used to describe these principles.

 

[steve_bank]

You can not just say 'atheisat morality'

Atheist communist.


Like atheist and theist humanism has no single meaning. It deonds on the peron.

Christian humanism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

If yuu want toargue Russian and Chibese communism were not atheist in ideology and tried to supress relgion, gp for it.

Us humans as we are, power corrupts and leads to abuse regardless of the group. Western liberal democrcy is an attempt to minimize abuse of power by individuals and groups. As I understand it today you can be religious in China, bu tit is has to be statee apoves and it must be apolitical.

n 1957, the Chinese government established the Chinese Patriotic Catholic Association in Beijing, China, which rejects the authority of the Holy See and appoints its own preferential bishops. Since September 2018, however, the pontiff has the power to veto any bishop which the Chinese government recommends.

How the Dalai Lama is chosen and why China wants to appoint its own

Winner of the 1992 Nobel Peace Prize and one of the most recognizable faces of Buddhism, the Dalai Lama has turned 84 and the question of a successor is pressing – and controversial.

theconversation.com

If you can, please cite a singular atheist morality. I doubt you can.

 

[Jarhyn]

You can not just say 'atheisat morality'
...

If you can, please cite a singular atheist morality. I doubt you can.

So, it's not what I call "morality" but I'm attempting to tuck ethics into math instead of philosophy.

That's a "morality" by what I assume you mean by the word, and pretty atheistic.

Unless you want to call Langland's Program theistic?

...

...

You know I was going to say I don't worship math, but I kind of do, in my own strange way.

I love the joy from being able to "figure it out". It makes me feel alive regardless of what I'm pointing that at.

It seems like the universe is arrayed as a puzzle just like that, and I don't really care what the DM thinks about "breaking: figuring out how to effectively game" the rules, especially when the outcome is "game becomes more available to everyone except the fascists".

Perhaps this IS worship, but if it is, it's not worship of anything with a mind per SE. It's just worship of that which minds are, fundamentally, made of: a dance of perfect, mathematical chaos.

Then, that's what "everything" is made of.

 

[steve_bank]

You can not just say 'atheisat morality'
...

If you can, please cite a singular atheist morality. I doubt you can.

So, it's not what I call "morality" but I'm attempting to tuck ethics into math instead of philosophy.

That's a "morality" by what I assume you mean by the word, and pretty atheistic.

Unless you want to call Langland's Program theistic?

The word that comes to mind is gobbledygook. You can look it up.

 

[Tigers!]

We likely get a slanted view of Atheism spending so much time at this forum, which filters for highly intelligent people.

Sometimes that filter needs replacing.
(Present company naturally excluded)

 

[Jarhyn]

You can not just say 'atheisat morality'
...

If you can, please cite a singular atheist morality. I doubt you can.

So, it's not what I call "morality" but I'm attempting to tuck ethics into math instead of philosophy.

That's a "morality" by what I assume you mean by the word, and pretty atheistic.

Unless you want to call Langland's Program theistic?

The word that comes to mind is gobbledygook. You can look it up.

The word that comes to mind is "dismissiveness when someone comes at it from an angle you hadn't considered"

If ethics can be entirely expressed as a form of math, then that's atheistic by your reckoning. Dislike it all you want, and see even that many parts were informed originally through theistic transfer!

None of my "morality" ends up theistic, again, unless you want to call game theory theistic... but it's just math.

Even if we had unto us revealed some asshole who flipped this "physics" on inside some more powerful shell, even they are bound by their own physical nature, and Euthephro, and even Fearful Ares himself still needs to answer Socrates: from whence comes piety?

This is atheistic. This is a "morality". I have answered you.

 

[steve_bank]

The communists states which were atheist ideology were all oppressive. State atheism has been demonstrated to result in the polar opposite of western liberal rights.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxist–Leninist_atheism

Marxist–Leninist atheism, also known as Marxist–Leninist scientific atheism, is the irreligious and anti-clerical element of Marxism–Leninism, the official state ideology of the Soviet Union.[1] Based upon a dialectical-materialist understanding of humanity's place in nature, Marxist–Leninist atheism proposes that religion is the opium of the people; thus, Marxism–Leninism advocates atheism, rather than religious belief.[2][3][4]




To support those ideological premises, Marxist–Leninist atheism explains the origin of religion and explains methods for the scientific criticism of religion.[5] The philosophic roots of materialist atheism are in the works of Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel (1770–1831) and of Ludwig Feuerbach (1804–1872), of Karl Marx (1818–1883) and of Vladimir Lenin (1870–1924).[6]




Unlike Soviet Marxism, other varieties of Marxist philosophy are not anti-religious, such as the liberation theology developed by Latin American Marxists.[7]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxism_and_religion

19th-century German philosopher Karl Marx, the founder and primary theorist of Marxism, viewed religion as "the soul of soulless conditions" or the "opium of the people". According to Karl Marx, religion in this world of exploitation is an expression of distress and at the same time it is also a protest against the real distress. In other words, religion continues to survive because of oppressive social conditions. When this oppressive and exploitative condition is destroyed, religion will become unnecessary. At the same time, Marx saw religion as a form of protest by the working classes against their poor economic conditions and their alienation.[1] Some Marxist scholars have classified Marx's views as adhering to Post-Theism, a philosophical position that regards worshipping deities as an eventually obsolete, but temporarily necessary, stage in humanity's historical spiritual development.[2]




In the Marxist–Leninist interpretation, all modern religions and churches are considered as "organs of bourgeois reaction" used for "the exploitation and the stupefaction of the working class". A number of Marxist–Leninist governments in the 20th century such as the Soviet Union after Vladimir Lenin and the People's Republic of China under Mao Zedong implemented rules introducing state atheism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_atheism

State atheism is the incorporation of positive atheism or non-theism into political regimes.[27] It may also refer to large-scale secularization attempts by governments.[28] It is a form of religion-state relationship that is usually ideologically linked to irreligion and the promotion of irreligion to some extent.[29] State atheism may refer to a government's promotion of anti-clericalism, which opposes religious institutional power and influence in all aspects of public and political life, including the involvement of religion in the everyday life of the citizen.[27][30][31] In some instances, religious symbols and public practices that were once held by religion were replaced with secularized versions.[32] State atheism can also exist in a politically neutral fashion, in which case it is considered as non-secular.[27]




The majority of communist states followed similar policies from 1917 onwards.[9][28][30][33][34][35][36] The Soviet Union (1922–1991) had a long history of state atheism, whereby those seeking social success generally had to profess atheism and to stay away from houses of worship; this trend became especially militant during the middle of the Stalinist era which lasted from 1929 to 1939. In Eastern Europe, countries like Belarus, Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Russia, and Ukraine experienced strong state atheism policies.[34] East Germany and Czechoslovakia also had similar policies.[28] The Soviet Union attempted to suppress public religious expression over wide areas of its influence, including places such as Central Asia. Either currently or in their past, China,[28][33][36][37] North Korea,[36][37] Vietnam,[38] Cambodia,[9] and Cuba[35] are or were officially atheist.




In contrast, a secular state purports to be officially neutral in matters of religion, supporting neither religion nor irreligion.[27][39][40] In a review of 35 European states in 1980, 5 states were considered 'secular' in the sense of religious neutrality, 9 considered "atheistic", and 21 states considered "religious".[41]

China

Main articles: Religion in China, Freedom of religion in China, and Irreligion in China




China has adopted a policy of official state atheism.[33][37][98][99] Art. 36 of the Chinese constitution guarantees freedom of religion but limits the right to practice religion to state sanctioned organisations. The government has promoted atheism throughout the country. In April 2016, the General Secretary, Xi Jinping, stated that members of the Communist Party of China must be "unyielding Marxist atheists" while in the same month, a government-sanctioned demolition work crew drove a bulldozer over two Chinese Christians who protested the demolition of their church by refusing to step aside.[100]




Traditionally, a large segment of the Chinese population took part in Chinese folk religions[101] and Confucianism, Taoism and Buddhism had played a significant role in the everyday lives of ordinary people.[102][103][104] After the 1949 Chinese Revolution, China began a period of rule by the Communist Party of China.[105][106] For much of its early history, that government maintained under Marxist thought that religion would ultimately disappear, and characterized it as emblematic of feudalism and foreign colonialism.[citation needed]




During the Cultural Revolution, student vigilantes known as Red Guards converted religious buildings for secular use or destroyed them. This attitude, however, relaxed considerably in the late 1970s, with the reform and opening up period. The 1978 Constitution of the People's Republic of China guaranteed freedom of religion with a number of restrictions. Since then, there has been a massive program to rebuild Buddhist and Taoist temples that were destroyed in the Cultural Revolution.[citation needed]




The Communist Party has said that religious belief and membership are incompatible.[10] However, the state is not allowed to force ordinary citizens to become atheists.[21] China's five officially sanctioned religious organizations are the Buddhist Association of China, Chinese Taoist Association, Islamic Association of China, Three-Self Patriotic Movement and Chinese Patriotic Catholic Association. These groups are afforded a degree of protection, but are subject to restrictions and controls under the State Administration for Religious Affairs. Unregistered religious groups face varying degrees of harassment.[107] The constitution permits what is called "normal religious activities," so long as they do not involve the use of religion to "engage in activities that disrupt social order, impair the health of citizens or interfere with the educational system of the state. Religious organizations and religious affairs are not subject to any foreign dominance."[21]

 

[steve_bank]

You can not just say 'atheisat morality'
...

If you can, please cite a singular atheist morality. I doubt you can.

So, it's not what I call "morality" but I'm attempting to tuck ethics into math instead of philosophy.

That's a "morality" by what I assume you mean by the word, and pretty atheistic.

Unless you want to call Langland's Program theistic?

The word that comes to mind is gobbledygook. You can look it up.

The word that comes to mind is "dismissiveness when someone comes at it from an angle you hadn't considered"

If ethics can be entirely expressed as a form of math, then that's atheistic by your reckoning. Dislike it all you want, and see even that many parts were informed originally through theistic transfer!

None of my "morality" ends up theistic, again, unless you want to call game theory theistic... but it's just math.

Even if we had unto us revealed some asshole who flipped this "physics" on inside some more powerful shell, even they are bound by their own physical nature, and Euthephro, and even Fearful Ares himself still needs to answer Socrates: from whence comes piety?

This is atheistic. This is a "morality". I have answered you.

Dismissive is correct.

 

[Coleman Smith]

"On average, the chaplains surveyed say that Christians as a whole make up about two-thirds of the inmate population in the facilities where they work. Protestants are seen, on average, as comprising 51% of the inmate population, Catholics 15% and other Christian groups less than 2%"

Religion in Prisons - A 50-State Survey of Prison Chaplains

According to a survey of professional prison chaplains, America’s state penitentiaries are a bustle of religious activity. Chaplains say that efforts by inmates to convert other inmates are common and that at least some religious switching occurs. And chaplains overwhelmingly consider...

www.pewresearch.org

Atheist make up less the .1 % of us prison population.

Atheists Now Make Up 0.1% of the Federal Prison Population

How many atheists are in the U.S. federal prison system? Is the percentage of atheists in prison more or less than what we'd find in the general population? And are any of those numbers actually meaningful? Two years ago, I set out to explore those questions. I found that self-described...

friendlyatheist.patheos.com

 

[bilby]

The communists states which were atheist ideology were all oppressive. State atheism has been demonstrated to result in the polar opposite of western liberal rights

Your conclusion doesn't follow from your premise.

State atheism has been demonstrated not to prevent the polar opposite of "western liberalism rights".

That's a very long way from being a demonstrated cause.

You have put me on ignore, and now you are making a fool of yourself with bad logic. Therefore putting me on ignore has been demonstrated to cause the use of foolishly bad logic.








This post is provided for the edification of those sufficiently reasonable not to put me on ignore

 

[Angry Floof]

The world is ingrained with the belief that morality comes from theist religions. Even a lot of atheists have not come to terms with their own infusion of this nonsense.

When you remove the theism, what does morality look like? As far as I'm concerned, that is the topic of discussion. And it seems that everything we consider to be "humanism" is the answer to that question, with the origin of said morality being humans.

 

[Angry Floof]

The communists states which were atheist ideology were all oppressive. State atheism has been demonstrated to result in the polar opposite of western liberal rights

Your conclusion doesn't follow from your premise.

State atheism has been demonstrated not to prevent the polar opposite of "western liberalism rights".

That's a very long way from being a demonstrated cause.

You have put me on ignore, and now you are making a fool of yourself with bad logic. Therefore putting me on ignore has been demonstrated to cause the use of foolishly bad logic.








This post is provided for the edification of those sufficiently reasonable not to put me on ignore

I don't have you on ignore and indeed I am now satisfactorily edified. Thanks!

The communists states which were atheist ideology were all oppressive. State atheism has been demonstrated to result in the polar opposite of western liberal rights

God belief doesn't prevent oppressive regimes. In fact, religion is not just happenstance to oppressive regimes, it's a key feature and provides the basic programming.

Atheism is not an ideology and does not inherently offer any elements to any ideology or policy or system of governance, only a lack of god belief. But anyone telling you that atheism is a belief system OR provides the basis of an ideological movement is someone you should fear and probably you should be prepared to join the resistance.

Secular systems of governance say nothing about religion one way or another. And atheists have been and still are instrumental in building such systems and ideologies, along with progressive liberal religions, without making either atheism or religion the basis.

Steve, we've been over this before. The atheist regimes you always trot out all used the same elements and tactics of oppression that all the best religious regimes have used. Let's talk about those elements, which don't include atheism one way or another.

I fear that if you can't recognize and acknowledge those elements and tactics, you leave yourself open to manipulation by them.

 

[Copernicus]

Communism is normally considered a political ideology, but it operates very much like a religion. During the Soviet period, the Party dictated morality in exactly the same dogmatic, authoritarian way that the Catholic Church does. When I first visited the Soviet Union in 1965, this all came out very clearly. The Party was extremely uptight about matters such as dancing the Twist, which was forbidden in certain places. (I remember being at a park in Odessa, which was playing rock music. The music suddenly cut off, and a loud voice over the speakers said "It is forbidden to do the twist"--Nel'z'a tvistovat'!!!) Pat Boone was one of the favorite crooners officially allowed to be heard in public places. They even had confessions, although they had to be done in public at Party meetings--"samokritika" or "self-criticism". Religion was officially discouraged, because it was regarded as a competitor of sorts. They allowed some working churches, but very few. On our first day in Moscow, we were taken to a play called "The Divine Comedy" (in Russian, of course), but the entire think was a satirical mockery of religion. Propaganda posters urging people not to practice religion were everywhere, and we discovered that many so-called "working churches" were hard to find and usually closed when we tried to visit them.

As for humanism, there is a long tradition of humanism in communist ideology, even though it was usually (but not always) an atheistic movement. The official Communist Party newspaper in France is called  L'Humanité. The basic ideology is all about human relations and social activity as the basis of all moral behavior. Like most religious institutions, it is guided by a totalitarian ideology. It even has a community of apostates. See  The God that Failed and  Marxist humanism.

 

[Angry Floof]

Humanism of today is also based in human empathy and self awareness and not just our social nature. Humanists typically consider all of humanity our tribe. The people who don't understand this are much more likely to become an agreeable part of an authoritarian state than humanists are.

As for oppressive political and religious ideologies, as I've said many times, the elements of authoritarianism that give rise to such ideologies are present in Christianity as well as right wing political ideology. One of those elements is tribal identity. Doesn't matter if it's a State identity or a religious one, if that identity insinuates itself as your most fundamental identity, even more fundamental or important than your human identity, then you would make a great authoritarian follower, religious or not.

 

[Jarhyn]

You can not just say 'atheisat morality'
...

If you can, please cite a singular atheist morality. I doubt you can.

So, it's not what I call "morality" but I'm attempting to tuck ethics into math instead of philosophy.

That's a "morality" by what I assume you mean by the word, and pretty atheistic.

Unless you want to call Langland's Program theistic?

The word that comes to mind is gobbledygook. You can look it up.

The word that comes to mind is "dismissiveness when someone comes at it from an angle you hadn't considered"

If ethics can be entirely expressed as a form of math, then that's atheistic by your reckoning. Dislike it all you want, and see even that many parts were informed originally through theistic transfer!

None of my "morality" ends up theistic, again, unless you want to call game theory theistic... but it's just math.

Even if we had unto us revealed some asshole who flipped this "physics" on inside some more powerful shell, even they are bound by their own physical nature, and Euthephro, and even Fearful Ares himself still needs to answer Socrates: from whence comes piety?

This is atheistic. This is a "morality". I have answered you.

Dismissive is correct.

So, you ask for something and then dismiss it when someone gives it to you. It seems your argument was in bad faith.

 

[southernhybrid]

You can not just say 'atheisat morality'

Atheist communist.


Like atheist and theist humanism has no single meaning. It deonds on the peron.

Christian humanism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

If yuu want toargue Russian and Chibese communism were not atheist in ideology and tried to supress relgion, gp for it.

Us humans as we are, power corrupts and leads to abuse regardless of the group. Western liberal democrcy is an attempt to minimize abuse of power by individuals and groups. As I understand it today you can be religious in China, bu tit is has to be statee apoves and it must be apolitical.

n 1957, the Chinese government established the Chinese Patriotic Catholic Association in Beijing, China, which rejects the authority of the Holy See and appoints its own preferential bishops. Since September 2018, however, the pontiff has the power to veto any bishop which the Chinese government recommends.

How the Dalai Lama is chosen and why China wants to appoint its own

Winner of the 1992 Nobel Peace Prize and one of the most recognizable faces of Buddhism, the Dalai Lama has turned 84 and the question of a successor is pressing – and controversial.

theconversation.com

If you can, please cite a singular atheist morality. I doubt you can.

I think you totally missed the point of the linked article, assuming that you read it. It makes no claims that atheists have some unique type of morality. It just says that when surveyed, people who say that they aren't 100% sure that gods exist, statistically have better moral values when it comes to things like having empathy for those who are different from themselves, as well as doing things for the greater good of society. For example, as I've mentioned before, non believers have a much higher rate of vaccination compliance compared to Christian groups. The surveyed group included more than just hard core atheists. It includes everyone who has doubts about the existence of gods. I guess since that group includes all atheists in the survey, the author used the term: "Atheist Morality". It's not my term. It's the term used in the link.

It also mentioned some of the worst examples of atheism, such as some examples of communistic autocracies, which of course never even followed the principles of communism. Perhaps you'll be relieved that among the hundreds of atheists who I've met in real life, only one was a communist. Most of us realize that communism has never worked when applied to a large government. We don't need you to tell us that some atheists are awful people, as nobody has claimed that we are all the same. I think the point the authors are trying to make is that at least statistically, those who doubt the existence of gods tend to be at least as morally upright or better than those who have strong beliefs in god.

Imo, the reason for that is because those who are strong believers often follow their leaders and cling to what their holy books tell them. That often leads to prejudice towards those outside their in-group. For example, take a look at today's white evangelicals in the US. I don't need to tell you how hateful and prejudiced the majority of them are. The article makes no claims about individual atheist or theists. The findings are just based on a survey, which supports the concept that one can be very moral without any belief in the supernatural.

Steve, I realize that you have some vision problems. I respectfully suggest that you read the linked article again. You will see that it never says that all of those who don't believe in god are somehow better than those who do. It mentions a few atheist dictators that were inhumane and destructive. All groups have some outliers. We're simply talking statistics here, not making judgments about any individuals.