"The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion"

[Toni]

If women have 100% of all the biological and legal authority to bear children, should that also not come with some kind of responsibility on their part?

FYI women are not asexual reproducers, so your question is a ridiculous hypothetical. Though to entertain the absurd, women are not certified to reproduce, nor are they given any legal authority as to who can and can't reproduce and when. Furthermore, women do not have any control over the fertilization of any egg, nor the process of releasing the egg, implanting on a wall, etc... Women are very close to completely uninvolved in the finer details of reproduction. The best they can do is have a male partner wear something (because the male likely won't get a procedure done to prevent impregnation just to have sex) and/or take a prescription that'll better regulate (though not dictate) their reproductive cycle. And those are not 100% safe.

The only completely safe way to avoid pregnancy is to limit sexual activity to oral sex.

Or avoiding heterosexual sex altogether.

 

[TomC]

Or avoiding heterosexual sex altogether.

I didn't follow [MENTION=563]RVonse[/MENTION]; link to birth control methods. So I don't know if homosex was on his list.

But it's worked for me for decades.
Tom

 

[Angry Floof]

Or avoiding heterosexual sex altogether.

Seriously, just cut off access across humanity until a certain half of the species evolves to self awareness.

 

[Toni]

Or avoiding heterosexual sex altogether.

I didn't follow [MENTION=563]RVonse[/MENTION]; link to birth control methods. So I don't know if homosex was on his list.

But it's worked for me for decades.
Tom

We are all aware that you would face zero negative consequences if women began to refuse to have sexual intercourse with men.

You’d also face zero negative consequences if women make medical decisions for themselves (with appropriate medical advise), including if they decide to terminate an unwanted pregnancy.

So maybe you can trust women to make their own decisions.

 

[KeepTalking]

This is just disingenuous goalpost shifting.

Rather than worrying about my goalposts, then allow me ask you these questions. Should giving people in our society authority also come with responsibility? When we give cops the authority to put us in jail do we also not expect them to be responsible about how they go about do ithat?

If women have 100% of all the biological and legal authority to bear children, should that also not come with some kind of responsibility on their part?

You certainly are willing to sign up 50% of the human race for a responsibility that you can never hold, and that they can never reject.

Forgive me if I don't find your pontifications about that responsibility very compelling.

 

[Rhea]

I don't have a problem with abortion when its needed as long as the mother and father are consenting to it.

I do have a problem with abortion being used as birth control because of irresponsible adults.

This indicates that you would like to question and judge every woman who wants an abortion. And also that you support the capability of rapists to force their victims to bear children.

It turns out that women, don’t have to care whether you “have a problem” with their choices of what they do with their bodies.

YOU DON’T OWN OUR BODIES. Our bodies are not vessels that you get to put in service for you. You just don’t get that.
My body is not your vessel. And I can use abortion as birth control if I want to, since that is a choice I’d make before a baby exists.

 

[RVonse]

If women have 100% of all the biological and legal authority to bear children, should that also not come with some kind of responsibility on their part?

FYI women are not asexual reproducers, so your question is a ridiculous hypothetical. Though to entertain the absurd, women are not certified to reproduce, nor are they given any legal authority as to who can and can't reproduce and when. Furthermore, women do not have any control over the fertilization of any egg, nor the process of releasing the egg, implanting on a wall, etc... Women are very close to completely uninvolved in the finer details of reproduction. The best they can do is have a male partner wear something (because the male likely won't get a procedure done to prevent impregnation just to have sex) and/or take a prescription that'll better regulate (though not dictate) their reproductive cycle. And those are not 100% safe.

The only completely safe way to avoid pregnancy is to limit sexual activity to oral sex.

All of your excuses and apologizing will do nothing at all to encourage or improve bad and sloppy behavior. And like it or not, it is the woman who ultimately produces a child. She is the factory where the child is made and she where the buck stops. The military calls this the chain of command and the woman is right at the top of it. If you and others want to make excuses for bad behavior resulting in abortions we will only expect to see more abortions.

Your excuses kind of do remind me of a close neighbor to me who is always complaining of everything and everyone else because he can not lose weight. Well does it ever occur to the fat people that THEY are responsible for the food that goes in their mouth. It is properly called personal responsibility and more of us need to practice this. While less people like yourself refraining from prostrating the floor apologizing for them.

 

[prideandfall]

If you and others want to make excuses for bad behavior resulting in abortions we will only expect to see more abortions.

i'm confused here - what bad behavior? and what is the reason for the implication that more abortions are bad?

since abortion is both an unmitigated social good as well as a moral imperative for any rational and decent adult, i really don't get the angle you're driving at here.

 

[Toni]

If women have 100% of all the biological and legal authority to bear children, should that also not come with some kind of responsibility on their part?

FYI women are not asexual reproducers, so your question is a ridiculous hypothetical. Though to entertain the absurd, women are not certified to reproduce, nor are they given any legal authority as to who can and can't reproduce and when. Furthermore, women do not have any control over the fertilization of any egg, nor the process of releasing the egg, implanting on a wall, etc... Women are very close to completely uninvolved in the finer details of reproduction. The best they can do is have a male partner wear something (because the male likely won't get a procedure done to prevent impregnation just to have sex) and/or take a prescription that'll better regulate (though not dictate) their reproductive cycle. And those are not 100% safe.

The only completely safe way to avoid pregnancy is to limit sexual activity to oral sex.

All of your excuses and apologizing will do nothing at all to encourage or improve bad and sloppy behavior. And like it or not, it is the woman who ultimately produces a child. She is the factory where the child is made and she where the buck stops. The military calls this the chain of command and the woman is right at the top of it. If you and others want to make excuses for bad behavior resulting in abortions we will only expect to see more abortions.

Your excuses kind of do remind me of a close neighbor to me who is always complaining of everything and everyone else because he can not lose weight. Well does it ever occur to the fat people that THEY are responsible for the food that goes in their mouth. It is properly called it personal responsibility and more of us need to practice this while less people like yourself quit prostrating the floor apologizing for them.

You have yet to come up with a single reason that any woman should give a damn about whether or not you or any other man approves of her reproductive choice. You have no claim of moral authority over the bodies and reproductive choices of women. You are free to make your own personally responsible reproductive choices as far as whether or not to utilize birth control yourself (condoms, or vasectomy) or whether or not to engage in sexual intercourse with a woman of childbearing years. Beyond that, you have no authority, moral or otherwise.

No one here is apologizing for women asserting control over their bodies and their reproductive choices. Women have nothing to apologize for.


But your meltdown over the refusal of women to kowtow to your temper tantrum is duly noted and filed away in the usual circular file, where it belongs.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

If women have 100% of all the biological and legal authority to bear children, should that also not come with some kind of responsibility on their part?

FYI women are not asexual reproducers, so your question is a ridiculous hypothetical. Though to entertain the absurd, women are not certified to reproduce, nor are they given any legal authority as to who can and can't reproduce and when. Furthermore, women do not have any control over the fertilization of any egg, nor the process of releasing the egg, implanting on a wall, etc... Women are very close to completely uninvolved in the finer details of reproduction. The best they can do is have a male partner wear something (because the male likely won't get a procedure done to prevent impregnation just to have sex) and/or take a prescription that'll better regulate (though not dictate) their reproductive cycle. And those are not 100% safe.

The only completely safe way to avoid pregnancy is to limit sexual activity to oral sex.

All of your excuses and apologizing will do nothing at all to encourage or improve bad and sloppy behavior. And like it or not, it is the woman who ultimately produces a child. She is the factory where the child is made and she where the buck stops. The military calls this the chain of command and the woman is right at the top of it. If you and others want to make excuses for bad behavior resulting in abortions we will only expect to see more abortions.

Your excuses kind of do remind me of a close neighbor to me who is always complaining of everything and everyone else because he can not lose weight. Well does it ever occur to the fat people that THEY are responsible for the food that goes in their mouth. It is properly called personal responsibility and more of us need to practice this. While less people like yourself refraining from prostrating the floor apologizing for them.

What excuse? I have merely stated facts. You are being judgmental and assumptive. You have considered all pregnancies, shy of rapes, sloppy. This is obviously false.

That you need to make pregnant women heels tells us you need to make women the bad ‘guy’ in order to justify ridding the option of abortion from women.

It’d be a bit harder for you to justify getting rid of abortion just because... and that makes your argument... well... sloppy.

 

[KeepTalking]

If women have 100% of all the biological and legal authority to bear children, should that also not come with some kind of responsibility on their part?

FYI women are not asexual reproducers, so your question is a ridiculous hypothetical. Though to entertain the absurd, women are not certified to reproduce, nor are they given any legal authority as to who can and can't reproduce and when. Furthermore, women do not have any control over the fertilization of any egg, nor the process of releasing the egg, implanting on a wall, etc... Women are very close to completely uninvolved in the finer details of reproduction. The best they can do is have a male partner wear something (because the male likely won't get a procedure done to prevent impregnation just to have sex) and/or take a prescription that'll better regulate (though not dictate) their reproductive cycle. And those are not 100% safe.

The only completely safe way to avoid pregnancy is to limit sexual activity to oral sex.

All of your excuses and apologizing will do nothing at all to encourage or improve bad and sloppy behavior.

If sex isn't sloppy for you, you are doing it wrong.

 

[RVonse]

You have yet to come up with a single reason that any woman should give a damn about whether or not you or any other man approves of her reproductive choice.

There is no question that my opinion does not matter to anyone or anything. But the entire history of humanity and society and norms speaks for itself. Whether I personally believe abortion is moral or not would never be the question. It is the fact that there are thousands of WOMEN (NOT JUST MEN) out there who do believe abortion is immoral that is what makes this important for you. It matters because those people are a force who will protest, vote, and make your life difficult. They matters to you because like it or not you have to try to live in harmony with those individuals.

Taking away the morality of abortion, abortions are stupid and unnecessary anyway. It is like the home building contractor who already knows the city won't allow a house on a parcel of land, yet builds it anyway just so he can tear it all down again right away. Would you call that an intelligent process?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

You have yet to come up with a single reason that any woman should give a damn about whether or not you or any other man approves of her reproductive choice.

There is no question that my opinion does not matter to anyone or anything.

Well, that's that. Let's lock up. Take the rest of the week off people. It was a good... what? Oh, there is a "but" isn't there.

But ....

Oh crap. *Unlocks the doors, turns the lights back on.*

Blah, blah, blah completely agree.... but no... I don't. *sigh*

...the entire history of humanity and society and norms speaks for itself.

Well, if it did, that'd be a lot of words and a lot of it not lining up with itself.

Whether I personally believe abortion is moral or not would never be the question.

It is the fact that there are thousands of WOMEN (NOT JUST MEN) out there who do believe abortion is immoral that is what makes this important for you. It matters because those people are a force who will protest, vote, and make your life difficult. They matters to you because like it or not you have to try to live in harmony with those individuals.

That is a swerve. You don't have to convince me... you have to convince all those other people over there. *points over there at other people*

That has got to be the worst argument ever. That'd get someone jettisoned from a formal debate. You don't need to prove to me Evolution is true, you need to prove that to all the people that think it is false. Also, I think Evolution is Stupid.

Taking away the morality of abortion...

Morality of abortion? You are whining about women being sloppy about have sex. You have judged them well short of the process of getting an abortion.

...abortions are stupid and unnecessary anyway.

Abortions are Stupid. Put that on a piece of cardboard and carry that around in front of a planned parenthood facility.

It is like the home building contractor who already knows the city won't allow a house on a parcel of land, yet builds it anyway just so he can tear it all down again right away. Would you call that an intelligent process?

Jebus Christ! I certainly wouldn't call it an intelligent argument.

 

[prideandfall]

It is like the home building contractor who already knows the city won't allow a house on a parcel of land, yet builds it anyway just so he can tear it all down again right away. Would you call that an intelligent process?

holy shit, you can connect on an existential level with another human being and experience arguably the most intensely pleasurable physical sensation possible to the human body (while also fulfilling a deeply rooted and extremely powerful evolutionary instinct in the process) from building a house?

construction methods have progressed quite a bit since i was aware of the tenets of carpentry.

 

[Elixir]

It is like the home building contractor who already knows the city won't allow a house on a parcel of land, yet builds it anyway just so he can tear it all down again right away. Would you call that an intelligent process?

holy shit, you can connect on an existential level with another human being and experience arguably the most intensely pleasurable physical sensation possible to the human body (while also fulfilling a deeply rooted and extremely powerful evolutionary instinct in the process) from building a house?

construction methods have progressed quite a bit since i was aware of the tenets of carpentry.

Weird equivalences can arise when some people ain’t getting any.

 

[ideologyhunter]

Home contracting? Bad metaphor. Sexual intercourse is more like stapling carbons to original documents, surely. Abortion is erasing superfluous verbiage. Sometimes ya just gotta.

 

[Angry Floof]

It is like the home building contractor who already knows the city won't allow a house on a parcel of land, yet builds it anyway just so he can tear it all down again right away. Would you call that an intelligent process?

holy shit, you can connect on an existential level with another human being and experience arguably the most intensely pleasurable physical sensation possible to the human body (while also fulfilling a deeply rooted and extremely powerful evolutionary instinct in the process) from building a house?

construction methods have progressed quite a bit since i was aware of the tenets of carpentry.

Weird equivalences can arise when some people ain’t getting any.

Well, when the world is so full of fake news and disinformation, you have no choice but to just go with what you want to be true. There's just no other way to discern truth anymore.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

It is like the home building contractor who already knows the city won't allow a house on a parcel of land, yet builds it anyway just so he can tear it all down again right away. Would you call that an intelligent process?

holy shit, you can connect on an existential level with another human being and experience arguably the most intensely pleasurable physical sensation possible to the human body (while also fulfilling a deeply rooted and extremely powerful evolutionary instinct in the process) from building a house?

construction methods have progressed quite a bit since i was aware of the tenets of carpentry.

Weird equivalences can arise when some people ain’t getting any.

Yeah, not many women complain about a guy taking "too long" finish the job.

 

[Elixir]

Weird equivalences can arise when some people ain’t getting any.

Well, when the world is so full of fake news and disinformation, you have no choice but to just go with what you want to be true. There's just no other way to discern truth anymore.

The more I ponder that, the more grateful I am for the truly excellent education I got in grades 1 through 3. I can't recall one single "fact" I learned in school during that time, but I do remember a lot of challenges designed to teach how to think and how to formulate useful questions. Most of the rest of my formal education (grades 4-11½) consisted of attempts to tell me what to think. I suspect that today, the matter of how to think is reserved for university level courses and classes. By that time, most people's thought processes are so ossified that they do not benefit much from it. Now we are left with a world full of fake news and disinformation, and a general population that is unable to discern the extent to which they have been told what to think.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Weird equivalences can arise when some people ain’t getting any.

Yeah, not many women complain about a guy taking "too long" finish the job.

2nd riff.

"Yeah, it was incredible! He was in and out before I knew it, could hardly tell he was ever there."