fromderinside
Mazzie Daius
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2008
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- optimist
Of course they weren't. Those who propose 'superior' governments never are interested in what's best.
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‘The perfect target’: Russia cultivated Trump as asset for 40 years – ex-KGB spy
- Thread starter ZiprHead
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DrZoidberg
Contributor
Yes, he was. He specifically hated Jews and purged the party continuously of them. While not openly saying that he hated Jews, soon after he found out somebody was Jewish around him, they disappeared. He was terrified that Jews might be more loyal to the Jewish cause than to Russia. Yes, he made a bunch of statements about the evils of antisemitism and was a supporter of Israel as a Jewish state. But, cynics, might say that is because he wanted Israel as an ally. Zionism was overtly a socialist movement. Socialist and atheistic, confusingly enough. He wanted to cash in on that. One might even be so bold as to call him a hypocrite on this matter.
"The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" was never banned in Russia, even though, very many books were. Anything remotely ideologically sensitive was banned. But not this book.
If they weren't interested in expansion, how come everything the International did was about expanding Russian influence?
You seem very confused about what expansion means. In the modern world controlling resources and production and having the loyalty of key people is power. Not what land you control. Russia never invaded Cuba, yet was permitted by Castro to use it as a nuclear launch site for missiles. Russia could dictate what any country in Eastern Europe did, even though, officially, they didn't rule them.
I don't understand why you are giving Stalin a free pass on this? Are you seriously saying that Stalin didn't care about expanding Russian power beyond Russia's borders? He was meddling in world politics, because why? His big bleeding heart?
barbos
Contributor
You are totally making shit up 
Just admit it.
Just admit it.
DrZoidberg
Contributor
You are totally making shit up
Just admit it.
It took me less than a second to google this. Stalin's attitudes to Jews is well documented. The fact that he said and did different things doesn't make him a friend of Jews. He was just a dishonest antisemite.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalin_and_antisemitism
barbos
Contributor
Why are we even talking about it? Not to crap over your equating nazi antisemitism with historians widely discussing alleged antisemitism of Stalin. What the fuck is wrong with you? Stalin helped to create Israel. And Stalin fucking died in 1953.You are totally making shit up
Just admit it.
It took me less than a second to google this. Stalin's attitudes to Jews is well documented. The fact that he said and did different things doesn't make him a friend of Jews. He was just a dishonest antisemite.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalin_and_antisemitism
Stop making shit up, irrelevant shit at that. The fact is, West started fucking Cold War, not Stalin. And what is worse is that you restarted it again after USSR was no more. Give me a fucking break.
fromderinside
Mazzie Daius
- Joined
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Below is the quoting of a thoroughly self washed soviet loving brain.
You are totally making shit up
Just admit it.
Why are we even talking about it? Not to crap over your equating nazi antisemitism with historians widely discussing alleged antisemitism of Stalin. What the fuck is wrong with you? Stalin helped to create Israel. And Stalin fucking died in 1953.
Stop making shit up, irrelevant shit at that. The fact is, West started fucking Cold War, not Stalin. And what is worse is that you restarted it again after USSR was no more. Give me a fucking break.
This bit about 'we' started the cold war after then Soviet Union refused to leave eastern Europe after WWII is just more of the same BS as above.
Elixir
Made in America
Below is the quoting of a thoroughly self washed soviet loving brain.
You are totally making shit up
Just admit it.
Why are we even talking about it? Not to crap over your equating nazi antisemitism with historians widely discussing alleged antisemitism of Stalin. What the fuck is wrong with you? Stalin helped to create Israel. And Stalin fucking died in 1953.
Stop making shit up, irrelevant shit at that. The fact is, West started fucking Cold War, not Stalin. And what is worse is that you restarted it again after USSR was no more. Give me a fucking break.
This bit about 'we' started the cold war after then Soviet Union refused to leave eastern Europe after WWII is just more of the same BS as above.
What I always wonder is.... why were the people who were trying to transit the Iron Curtain always coming from the Soviet Union instead of running toward its superior form of government?
Maybe I have that wrong, but the way I remember it, the USSR was losing all their best and brightest to the West, and had guard towers, walls and lots of measures to thwart people who wanted to leave. But the West never had similar measures in place... presumably because nobody was desperate to get into the Soviet Union. I was left with the impression that this made the USSR the bad guys. Probably I was just the victim of Western propaganda though.
barbos
Contributor
Remind me when US left Germany. Oh they never did. And USSR did leave Eastern Europe and Cold War is still going on, why?
Below is the quoting of a thoroughly self washed soviet loving brain.
You are totally making shit up
Just admit it.
Why are we even talking about it? Not to crap over your equating nazi antisemitism with historians widely discussing alleged antisemitism of Stalin. What the fuck is wrong with you? Stalin helped to create Israel. And Stalin fucking died in 1953.
Stop making shit up, irrelevant shit at that. The fact is, West started fucking Cold War, not Stalin. And what is worse is that you restarted it again after USSR was no more. Give me a fucking break.
This bit about 'we' started the cold war after then Soviet Union refused to leave eastern Europe after WWII is just more of the same BS as above.
Maybe it was not about Eastern Europe at all?
barbos
Contributor
That's not an issue here, Soviet System was crappy toward its own people. Issue here about treatment of other countries.
And even internal crap is not entirely the fault of the system but an indirect result of losing in the Cold War. Soviet Union would have lost even with better government, simply because West was way bigger economically.
JohnG
Senior Member
Cant disagree there. He doesn't come across as a team player
fromderinside
Mazzie Daius
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2008
- Messages
- 15,945
- Basic Beliefs
- optimist
Unfortunately for you barbos I go all the way back to the beginning of the cold war. You know the one where USSR helped in a little dust up about Berlin, then went all stupid and walked out of the Security Council permitting the US to gather allies to punch the shit out of their client N. Korea. Then we built B 52s.
Then we returned the favor when Ike refused to permit the elections in Vietnam in 1956 because we developed domino phobia and we got scared and built and bomb shelters in Ohio and soviets built big rockets with the help of Goddard ....and Khrushchev and Nixon had a kitchen debate and then Soviets tried to put missiles in Cuba but Kennedy quivered but didn't flinch then USSR went all corrupt and the US won the space race, then we screwed up again with them damn dominos in Vietnam and got a black eye. But we won the space race while we were fucking up.
Having lost the fight for the soul of undecideds USSR got a blackeye as well in Afghanistan when Carter sent in portable GTA missiles ... even while Iran was messing us over by expelling the Shah. Then Chernobyl and and the Central committee collapsed when they tried to overrule Gorbachev .... and the Mayor of Moscow took over got drunk and along came Putin. and the rest is, as they say, history.
huff, huff, huff
Then we returned the favor when Ike refused to permit the elections in Vietnam in 1956 because we developed domino phobia and we got scared and built and bomb shelters in Ohio and soviets built big rockets with the help of Goddard ....and Khrushchev and Nixon had a kitchen debate and then Soviets tried to put missiles in Cuba but Kennedy quivered but didn't flinch then USSR went all corrupt and the US won the space race, then we screwed up again with them damn dominos in Vietnam and got a black eye. But we won the space race while we were fucking up.
Having lost the fight for the soul of undecideds USSR got a blackeye as well in Afghanistan when Carter sent in portable GTA missiles ... even while Iran was messing us over by expelling the Shah. Then Chernobyl and and the Central committee collapsed when they tried to overrule Gorbachev .... and the Mayor of Moscow took over got drunk and along came Putin. and the rest is, as they say, history.
huff, huff, huff
barbos
Contributor
What's the point here and how is it unfortunate for me?
DrZoidberg
Contributor
Why are we even talking about it? Not to crap over your equating nazi antisemitism with historians widely discussing alleged antisemitism of Stalin. What the fuck is wrong with you? Stalin helped to create Israel. And Stalin fucking died in 1953.You are totally making shit up
Just admit it.
It took me less than a second to google this. Stalin's attitudes to Jews is well documented. The fact that he said and did different things doesn't make him a friend of Jews. He was just a dishonest antisemite.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalin_and_antisemitism
Stop making shit up, irrelevant shit at that. The fact is, West started fucking Cold War, not Stalin. And what is worse is that you restarted it again after USSR was no more. Give me a fucking break.
What did I make up? Yes, Stalin help create Israel AND systematically shipped loads of Jews to the Gulags simply for being Jews. He actually did this. Are you saying he didn't?
Yes, I remembered the year of his death wrong by 2 years. And what, that makes me a liar and wrong about everything else? What's wrong with you?
I honestly never thought I'd actually get to talk to a Soviet apologist now when the truth of the Soviets have been revealed and all the archives have been opened.
Yes, all Putin wanted was a little piece of Ukraine. Bad, bad, west for trying to defend Ukraine.
Next I guess you'll tell me that Satan has been misunderstood by history?
DrZoidberg
Contributor
You need a history lesson on what the Warsaw pact was. It wasn't so much a defensive pact as de facto making the entire Eastern Europe a part of the Soviet union. NATO, in contrast didn't have any influence on local politics. The US troops in Germany are there because they are invited to be there. They would go if Germany would ask them to. They are there to protect against Russian aggression.
You trying to pass this off as USA being the bad guys is absurd. Or that the Cold War wasn't created by the USSR is equally bizarre.
barbos
Contributor
Utter bullshit, starting with Stalin being antisemitic and Gulag bullshit.
You need to reeducate yourself.
You need to reeducate yourself.
DrZoidberg
Contributor
If this is sarcasm, I apologize. I hate to come in as a defender of the USSR in this thread, but Russia won the space race. By a wide margin. USA claiming they won the space race is like saying that because USA won the 100 meter sprint, but lost in every other event, therefore USA was the overall winner. USA only comes out as a winner of the space race if we reformulate the space race, after the fact, to only have been about having a manned mission to the Moon. Which it wasn't. Of everything done in the space race a manned mission to the Moon was the least interesting for science. While an amazing feat of engineering and a great boost to the image of science and engineering, was never the prime goal for the Soviet space program. The Soviets did plan to do a manned mission to the Moon, but a completely different approach.
DrZoidberg
Contributor
I grew up in Sweden. In the 70'ies Sweden only had two TV channels. Both run by the government. And both relentless non-stop socialist propaganda. Very very Soviet friendly. Radio channels needed permits from the government, and only were allowed airtime if they towed the party line. I remember having your opinions. Based on that propaganda. But it was only ever just that, propaganda. In the 90'ies other TV channels were allowed and we got access to a world of media beyond socialist propaganda, everything changed.
You've clearly been fed lots of pro-Soviet socialist propaganda, like I was, but you're still stuck in that world. It was only ever a complete lie. If it hadn't been for Russia's aggression after WW2 there would have been no Cold War. The developing world would still have been a mess after the dismantling of the colonial powers. But USSR only made a bad problem worse. They did no favours for anyone. If the Soviet union never would have existed, it would have been better for everyone, including the Russians.
barbos
Contributor
Bullcrap again. I WAS fed propaganda, but it had nothing to do with what we are talking about here. And I have not bought any of that propaganda anyway. It was stupid and I was not interested in it anyway, I was good at math and physics/chemistry in school and utterly ignored the rest of subjects, teachers were fine with it. In University I failed at mandatory subject of "History of CPSU" again by simply ignoring it completely.
Sorry dude, you just can't bullshit me here.
barbos
Contributor
Well, if Russians had won the Moon Race too, I don't know what would have happened then. US would dissolve into separate states and Canada invading northern states.
Too be fair, russians won Space Race, by a technically small margin. Few months here and few months there. Not 40 years margin as with Chinese and using ....... russian technology anyway. Of course, it was not expected for russians to even be close, let alone win (WW2 and stuff)
DrZoidberg
Contributor
Well, if Russians had won the Moon Race too, I don't know what would have happened then. US would dissolve into separate states and Canada invading northern states.
Too be fair, russians won Space Race, by a technically small margin. Few months here and few months there. Not 40 years margin as with Chinese and using ....... russian technology anyway. Of course, it was not expected for russians to even be close, let alone win (WW2 and stuff)
I don't know what I think about the Space Race. On one hand it was great that everybody got onboard and worked so efficiently towards this. Let's not kid around, without the Space Race NASA would never have gotten the funding they did. The fact that after the space race they both put their rivalry to the side and cooperated is such a fucking fairy tale of unicorn kisses and pink candy floss. I can't think of any other example in history where two rivals become instant besties. It's so cool.
Of course the Chinese are using Russian technology. None of the NASA or Roscosmos technology is propriatory information. It's all out there. They all share their research in open scientific journals and will even help to explain it when others ask, the Chinese included. ESA also shares all their data openly.
Space X and the other private space entrepenours do have propriatory technology. But it's a very new development. It's still a very open and cooperative field of science.