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‘The perfect target’: Russia cultivated Trump as asset for 40 years – ex-KGB spy

No, chinese bought Soyuz blueprints:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shenzhou_(spacecraft)

USSR and US did not share much of the tech and for the most part it did not even look similar.
Space Shuttle, yes it was copied.

Lol.

Yes, it was copied. They had their own project ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan-Gurevich_MiG-105 ) but Brezhnev&Co said I want what americans have, so they copied it.
Chinese shamelessly copy everything.
 
even internal crap is not entirely the fault of the system but an indirect result of losing in the Cold War

That's a really insipid view of it.
In fact, the USSR lost the cold war BECAUSE of the internal crap (i.e. the crappy way they treated their own people).
Had they held the hearts and minds of their own people, there probably would never have been a cold war, and if there had, they could have won it.
It wasn't just the US that was aligned against their treatment of the Russian citizenry, BTW. And the reason for that is the same reason they lost the cold war.
 
even internal crap is not entirely the fault of the system but an indirect result of losing in the Cold War

That's a really insipid view of it.
In fact, the USSR lost the cold war BECAUSE of the internal crap (i.e. the crappy way they treated their own people).
Had they held the hearts and minds of their own people, there probably would never have been a cold war, and if there had, they could have won it.
It wasn't just the US that was aligned against their treatment of the Russian citizenry, BTW. And the reason for that is the same reason they lost the cold war.
People who started Cold War could not care less about treatment of the Russian citizenry. In fact they counted on it. Just read Brzezinski and another cold "warriors"

It's economy, stupid! USSR just could not compete with the bigger economy of the West. Chinese now can, and they have learned a lot from mistakes of USSR.
 
People who started Cold War could not care less about treatment of the Russian citizenry. In fact they counted on it.

That's a sideways look at it how the treatment of the Russian citizenry was in fact the reason they lost the cold war. Thanks!

It's economy, stupid! USSR just could not compete with the bigger economy of the West.

Neither could Japan. Didn't work out so badly for them. Russian "leadership" has been fucked up for centuries. It's not JUST the economy, stupid.
 
People who started Cold War could not care less about treatment of the Russian citizenry. In fact they counted on it.

That's a sideways look at it how the treatment of the Russian citizenry was in fact the reason they lost the cold war. Thanks!

It's economy, stupid! USSR just could not compete with the bigger economy of the West.

Neither could Japan. Didn't work out so badly for them. Russian "leadership" has been fucked up for centuries. It's not JUST the economy, stupid.
Post WW2 Japan was the West.

And Communist China is now kicking your butt. As I said, they learned from mistakes of USSR.
 
That's a sideways look at it how the treatment of the Russian citizenry was in fact the reason they lost the cold war. Thanks!



Neither could Japan. Didn't work out so badly for them. Russian "leadership" has been fucked up for centuries. It's not JUST the economy, stupid.
Post WW2 Japan was the West.

And Communist China is now kicking your butt. As I said, they learned from mistakes of USSR.

By not being communist but instead going full fascism? The Chinese dictators learning from mistakes is not the same thing as the Chinese learning from their mistakes
 
Bullcrap again. I WAS fed propaganda, but it had nothing to do with what we are talking about here. And I have not bought any of that propaganda anyway. It was stupid and I was not interested in it anyway, I was good at math and physics/chemistry in school and utterly ignored the rest of subjects, teachers were fine with it. In University I failed at mandatory subject of "History of CPSU" again by simply ignoring it completely.
Sorry dude, you just can't bullshit me here.
So to paraphrase: "I am far too ignorant of this subject to be misinformed about this subject."
Seriously?

Propoganda isn't a subject you study in school. If it is done right, propaganda is a cultural environment you breath in without noticing composed of cherry picked facts, carefully framed perspectives, exagerated triumphs and threats, and marginalized defeats and weaknesses. A big chunk of die hard Trumpers don't even consume American right wing propoaganda directly. But they can still recite most of the latest talking points because that is what their friends, family, and co-workers are talking about.
 
Bullcrap again. I WAS fed propaganda, but it had nothing to do with what we are talking about here. And I have not bought any of that propaganda anyway. It was stupid and I was not interested in it anyway, I was good at math and physics/chemistry in school and utterly ignored the rest of subjects, teachers were fine with it. In University I failed at mandatory subject of "History of CPSU" again by simply ignoring it completely.
Sorry dude, you just can't bullshit me here.
So to paraphrase: "I am far too ignorant of this subject to be misinformed about this subject."
Seriously?
No. I was too smart to buy that propaganda.
 
That's a sideways look at it how the treatment of the Russian citizenry was in fact the reason they lost the cold war. Thanks!



Neither could Japan. Didn't work out so badly for them. Russian "leadership" has been fucked up for centuries. It's not JUST the economy, stupid.
Post WW2 Japan was the West.

And Communist China is now kicking your butt. As I said, they learned from mistakes of USSR.

By not being communist but instead going full fascism? The Chinese dictators learning from mistakes is not the same thing as the Chinese learning from their mistakes

I am not here to defend/label them either. Actually chinese stole their current system from USSR. In the 70s soviet leaders realized that system was not working and suggested bringing in capitalism but choose not to (oil crisis propped the system instead). Chinese literally studied USSR before morphing into capitalism or fascism according to you.
 
That's a sideways look at it how the treatment of the Russian citizenry was in fact the reason they lost the cold war. Thanks!

Neither could Japan. Didn't work out so badly for them. Russian "leadership" has been fucked up for centuries. It's not JUST the economy, stupid.
Post WW2 Japan was the West.

Now you're getting smarter. (Maybe)
Post WW2 wasn't "the West" until they actually allied themselves to it.
Russia never learned that lesson, and instead cleaves now unto the Chinese model, but without Chinese resources.
It's a pre-ordained failure, and a real pity for the innocent Russian populace.
 
But we won the space race while we were fucking up.

If this is sarcasm, I apologize. I hate to come in as a defender of the USSR in this thread, but Russia won the space race. By a wide margin. USA claiming they won the space race is like saying that because USA won the 100 meter sprint, but lost in every other event, therefore USA was the overall winner. USA only comes out as a winner of the space race if we reformulate the space race, after the fact, to only have been about having a manned mission to the Moon. Which it wasn't. Of everything done in the space race a manned mission to the Moon was the least interesting for science. While an amazing feat of engineering and a great boost to the image of science and engineering, was never the prime goal for the Soviet space program. The Soviets did plan to do a manned mission to the Moon, but a completely different approach.

As I understand it it was Kennedy who set the parameters of the space race and not the USSR.

In a time beset by civil strife and international crises, President John F. Kennedy turned a nation’s eyes to the sky. He gave a nation hope with a simple mission: Put a man on the Moon.“We choose to go to the Moon,” Kennedy said. “We choose to go to the Moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too.”

Kennedy thundered those words from the podium which now sits in Destiny Theater here at Space Center Houston. The podium was donated to Space Center Houston by Rice University in Houston, where Kennedy delivered his speech imploring America to reach for the lunar surface on Sept. 12. 1962.

Yes I know we'd been getting our butts kicked since 1957 by the USSR in space. Thrust, dogs, satellites, etc.

However just as the Korean inconvenience was determined by technology so was the space race. Russia was in to off the shelf technology (steam gauge technology) while the US was into advanced technology (digital and computer technology) which became the determinant in both instances. Russians were into power systems while western nations were into command and control and systems automation.

The last example of Russian failure in extent and flexibility of control was when the Soviets shot down a civilian commercial jet flying off the Soviet coast back after the Nixon years.

History has a way of revealing itself in adaptation failures.
 
As I understand it it was Kennedy who set the parameters of the space race and not the USSR.

In a time beset by civil strife and international crises, President John F. Kennedy turned a nation’s eyes to the sky. He gave a nation hope with a simple mission: Put a man on the Moon.“We choose to go to the Moon,” Kennedy said. “We choose to go to the Moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too.”

Kennedy thundered those words from the podium which now sits in Destiny Theater here at Space Center Houston. The podium was donated to Space Center Houston by Rice University in Houston, where Kennedy delivered his speech imploring America to reach for the lunar surface on Sept. 12. 1962.

Yes I know we'd been getting our butts kicked since 1957 by the USSR in space. Thrust, dogs, satellites, etc.

However just as the Korean inconvenience was determined by technology so was the space race. Russia was in to off the shelf technology (steam gauge technology) while the US was into advanced technology (digital and computer technology) which became the determinant in both instances. Russians were into power systems while western nations were into command and control and systems automation.

The last example of Russian failure in extent and flexibility of control was when the Soviets shot down a civilian commercial jet flying off the Soviet coast back after the Nixon years.

History has a way of revealing itself in adaptation failures.

Kennedy just picked the only target USA had any hope of beating the Russians at. Nah, USA still lost the space race in 19/20 cases. Russias lists of firsts is incredibly impressive

They have earned the bragging rights IMHO
 
As I see things the best China can do is use something like the American state method to bring most of it's people into something like the renaissance. That is to say breakdown agriculture to compartments of antiquity say from Iowa to Montana to West Virginia. Currently 600 million Chines are living in feudal times whilst about 500 million are living the good life.

Problems arise when structural beliefs conflict to the point where large disconnects arise between rural and cosmopolitan belief systems. The religious deconversion of Muslim Chinese is only one of these. Now there are dozens of million capacity cities standing empty because of problems getting the wooden tool farmers to retrain.

Chinese aren't kicking butt. They are competing but they are still relying on stealing rather than innovation to move themselves ahead. there is a point where that unless the 600 million are converted to consumers that the Chinese will be up against a more or less westernized competition from many sources while they will be still be burdened by wooden tool infrastructure, much like the Russians found with their Cerf base in the thirties through seventies.
 
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