The phony STEM shortage and the scandal of engineering visas (H1-B)

[TSwizzle]

And Corporate companies are pushing for more H1-B.

Leo Perrero had worked for the Walt Disney Co. in Orlando for more than 10 years, helping to run the point-of-sale systems at Walt Disney World and its other local parks, until late 2014. That's when he learned that his job, like 300 others, was going to be turned over to a foreign worker within 90 days, during which time he was expected to train his replacement.

LA Times

Talk about adding insult to injury.

 

[coloradoatheist]

And Corporate companies are pushing for more H1-B.

Leo Perrero had worked for the Walt Disney Co. in Orlando for more than 10 years, helping to run the point-of-sale systems at Walt Disney World and its other local parks, until late 2014. That's when he learned that his job, like 300 others, was going to be turned over to a foreign worker within 90 days, during which time he was expected to train his replacement.

LA Times

Talk about adding insult to injury.

I thought corporations controlled Congress, why is it even a debate then?

 

[barbos]

And Corporate companies are pushing for more H1-B.

Leo Perrero had worked for the Walt Disney Co. in Orlando for more than 10 years, helping to run the point-of-sale systems at Walt Disney World and its other local parks, until late 2014. That's when he learned that his job, like 300 others, was going to be turned over to a foreign worker within 90 days, during which time he was expected to train his replacement.

LA Times

Talk about adding insult to injury.

There is no shortage, there is abundance of engineers in ..... India, China and other less fortunate than US countries. And as any STEM person knows the Second law of Thermodynamics will try to fix this.
They guy should simply say - "I will train him, for $500K"

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I've been pointing this out for years.

 

[Nexus]

These are just the jobs Americans don't want*.








*At the pay levels immigrants are willing to accept. This applies to all jobs. If you accept this reasoning for dishwashers and fruit pickers it logically applies to stem careers as well.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

I have a brother in law in IT who had a hard time getting a job. Either he failed to have ridiculous amounts of so many years experience in this and that and that, or he was over-qualified.

So we have these jokers laying off qualified people to hire people with bachelors degrees and not much experience while complaining they can't get qualified people to fill jobs. This could be a problem. Would a well qualified person want to hire on with a company that has a history of such things? Will good people want to go into Computer Science knowing this is how the industry will treat them?

This sort of behavior should be illegal.

 

[rousseau]

I don't know much about how the visa system in the US works, but everything I can gather about American corporate culture is that workers are expendable, and any loophole higher-ups can use to screw people over will be used.

No STEM shortage, though? I don't see a lot of evidence for that, and any evidence I have seen is to the complete contrary.

For one, a few months ago I put my resume up on the usual suspect job sites to see what would come in, and with just over two years of software experience I was being contacted by recruiters almost every day.

Also toward the point, I follow 'Stack Overflow Careers' on linkedin, which has considerable industry expertise, and who's explicit purpose is to help recruiters get developers to pay attention to them.

I'm not sold on the 'age discrimination' argument either. Given my only test case is my city and three separate companies, but I've seen all kinds of older developers, whose experience was usually some of the most valuable on their respective teams.

 

[TSwizzle]

I have a brother in law in IT who had a hard time getting a job. Either he failed to have ridiculous amounts of so many years experience in this and that and that, or he was over-qualified.

I see this all the time. A job is advertised with unrealistic job experience and knowledge of about 10 different programming languages and 5 different platforms. I suspect some of these jobs are part of the H-1B scam to fool the INS (or whatever government body) into believing there is a shortage. Because the folks in government don't understand tech the companies get away with it.

I know a few of the people laid off at Disney in Burbank and Glendale. It was shameful the way they were treated. Some of them got hired by the company that services were outsourced to but most were replaced either offshore or H-1B.

So we have these jokers laying off qualified people to hire people with bachelors degrees and not much experience while complaining they can't get qualified people to fill jobs. This could be a problem. Would a well qualified person want to hire on with a company that has a history of such things? Will good people want to go into Computer Science knowing this is how the industry will treat them?

Yup, I'm not sure but I think young people going into computer science is down from a few years ago.

This sort of behavior should be illegal.

It should be but right now I think it's important to put the brakes on expanding the number of H-1B available.

 

[whichphilosophy]

And Corporate companies are pushing for more H1-B.

Leo Perrero had worked for the Walt Disney Co. in Orlando for more than 10 years, helping to run the point-of-sale systems at Walt Disney World and its other local parks, until late 2014. That's when he learned that his job, like 300 others, was going to be turned over to a foreign worker within 90 days, during which time he was expected to train his replacement.

LA Times

Talk about adding insult to injury.

I've worked abroad for the past few years with a work visa. In countries such as the UAE, Hong Kong, China, Qatar (and other Gulf States) legislation specifically mandates that local citizens are given priority in the job market In the UAE some jobs have been kept unfilled as they are for locals only. There is nothing wrong with this unless we apply this in the West.

If we applied this to the West it would be deemed racist. However it is actually racist if we import foreign labour to replace ours. In England even before we were swamped by mass immigration, all the jobs which British citizens 'could not do' were performed by British citizens. Like the US we have substantial amounts of skilled engineers.

By British citizen it means someone from any ethnic background. The fairly recent slur is that foreign cheap labour is driven in to fill jobs which the British are unable to do. That in itself is a racist statement. In fact 4 to 6 people sharing a cheap room from Romania and working for bottom dollar is unfair competition They send their money back home and build houses as they cost a fraction of what they cost in the UK. Laws allow companies to enrich themselves further for paying less. Then who pays for those who no longer have jobs?

 

[whichphilosophy]

These are just the jobs Americans don't want*.








*At the pay levels immigrants are willing to accept. This applies to all jobs. If you accept this reasoning for dishwashers and fruit pickers it logically applies to stem careers as well.

Applying this to England, we had all these vacancies before the country was flooded with cheap (sometimes illegal labour). Some people could visit a farm and picked their own fruit and paid the farmer. Some students did this for Summer work. I washed dishes part from for a while to earn an extra income. The restaurants always had someone wanting such a job. They also managed to get dishes washed even before mass immigration. Many pay cash in had for such jobs thus is ideal for some of Britain's illegal workers (aka undocumented workers) who come in illegally.

 

[whichphilosophy]

And Corporate companies are pushing for more H1-B.




LA Times

Talk about adding insult to injury.

There is no shortage, there is abundance of engineers in ..... India, China and other less fortunate than US countries. And as any STEM person knows the Second law of Thermodynamics will try to fix this.
They guy should simply say - "I will train him, for $500K"

Some of these engineers are very good. (Chinese from the PRC). I worked in China for 10 years. China state TV actually boasted how it also sent some to study in the US (paid by the government) and paid them a cash incentive to set up a practice back in China. Cost is irrelevant if you take an Engineer on bottom dollar and the Oil facility blows up.

 

[jonatha]

For one, a few months ago I put my resume up on the usual suspect job sites to see what would come in, and with just over two years of software experience I was being contacted by recruiters almost every day.

"contacted by recruiters" != "hired", for very large values of !

 

[Toni]

It's actually an issue across all STEM fields, including medical ones. Meanwhile, young adults in the US are discouraged from going to grad school due to enormous amounts of student debt and the dim prospects of finding positions in their fields at the end of all of the work.

I have had (and currently have) Ph.D.s working along side me, in one case, doing a job that I turned down (didn't want the shift or to work with a couple of the individuals I would have been tasked with supervising), making what I make or less. And then there's the fact that research jobs pay crap.

On the other hand, same employer: if you are in finance or IT, you will earn more.

 

[ronburgundy]

And Corporate companies are pushing for more H1-B.




LA Times

Talk about adding insult to injury.

I thought corporations controlled Congress, why is it even a debate then?

Corporations do control Congress, which is why Congress has actively colluded with corporations for years to abuse the Visa program and spread the lies about STEM shortages, and are currently trying to almost triple the number of such Visas given. There is no sincere debate by Congress, just efforts to put on a false veneer of "looking into it", due to pressure created by external investigations. Smart authorities in a hegemony make efforts to hide the fact that its a hegemony. Once specific abuses come to light, it is wise to throw the masses a bone to distract them and keep them from sniffing out the countless other abuses.

 

[coloradoatheist]

I thought corporations controlled Congress, why is it even a debate then?

Corporations do control Congress, which is why Congress has actively colluded with corporations for years to abuse the Visa program and spread the lies about STEM shortages, and are currently trying to almost triple the number of such Visas given. There is no sincere debate by Congress, just efforts to put on a false veneer of "looking into it", due to pressure created by external investigations. Smart authorities in a hegemony make efforts to hide the fact that its a hegemony. Once specific abuses come to light, it is wise to throw the masses a bone to distract them and keep them from sniffing out the countless other abuses.

If corporations controlled Congress then there would be no limit on the H1B Visa program and the corporate tax code would also be zero. I've heard and will try and find it, but we actually have the same number of computer science graduates today as we did 20 years ago.

 

[ronburgundy]

Corporations do control Congress, which is why Congress has actively colluded with corporations for years to abuse the Visa program and spread the lies about STEM shortages, and are currently trying to almost triple the number of such Visas given. There is no sincere debate by Congress, just efforts to put on a false veneer of "looking into it", due to pressure created by external investigations. Smart authorities in a hegemony make efforts to hide the fact that its a hegemony. Once specific abuses come to light, it is wise to throw the masses a bone to distract them and keep them from sniffing out the countless other abuses.

If corporations controlled Congress then there would be no limit on the H1B Visa program and the corporate tax code would also be zero.

Nope. Your prediction does not at all follow from the premise of corporate control for the reason I already explained.
Only in a overt dictatorship where government had to use constant violence to keep the masses under control would your prediction follow. That is a costly and in the long-run ineffective route to reaping the benefits of being in control. The more effective approach is subtly and keeping one's level of control hidden behind a system that gives the appearance of equal influence for all, which requires limiting one's own use of power in order to maintain appearances. For example, zero corporate taxation would lead to violent revolt that would cost the corporations a great deal. It is wiser to set official tax rates for the sake of an appearance of justice and pacification, then create loopholes that reduce the effective tax rate to a fraction of that (which is what is done now).

 

[coloradoatheist]

If corporations controlled Congress then there would be no limit on the H1B Visa program and the corporate tax code would also be zero.

Nope. Your prediction does not at all follow from the premise of corporate control for the reason I already explained.
Only in a overt dictatorship where government had to use constant violence to keep the masses under control would your prediction follow. That is a costly and in the long-run ineffective route to reaping the benefits of being in control. The more effective approach is subtly and keeping one's level of control hidden behind a system that gives the appearance of equal influence for all, which requires limiting one's own use of power in order to maintain appearances. For example, zero corporate taxation would lead to violent revolt that would cost the corporations a great deal. It is wiser to set official tax rates for the sake of an appearance of justice and pacification, then create loopholes that reduce the effective tax rate to a fraction of that (which is what is done now).

Is the US the only country around the world that dictates for tax purposes when revenues and expenses are recognized?

 

[coloradoatheist]

If corporations controlled Congress then there would be no limit on the H1B Visa program and the corporate tax code would also be zero.

Nope. Your prediction does not at all follow from the premise of corporate control for the reason I already explained.
Only in a overt dictatorship where government had to use constant violence to keep the masses under control would your prediction follow. That is a costly and in the long-run ineffective route to reaping the benefits of being in control. The more effective approach is subtly and keeping one's level of control hidden behind a system that gives the appearance of equal influence for all, which requires limiting one's own use of power in order to maintain appearances. For example, zero corporate taxation would lead to violent revolt that would cost the corporations a great deal. It is wiser to set official tax rates for the sake of an appearance of justice and pacification, then create loopholes that reduce the effective tax rate to a fraction of that (which is what is done now).

Or the other obvious explanation is that corporations don't have complete control over the government, just some along. And so do the people. The issue is that one group wants complete control and doesn't have it so they see instances of other parties having control and saying those people control government.

 

[ronburgundy]

Nope. Your prediction does not at all follow from the premise of corporate control for the reason I already explained.
Only in a overt dictatorship where government had to use constant violence to keep the masses under control would your prediction follow. That is a costly and in the long-run ineffective route to reaping the benefits of being in control. The more effective approach is subtly and keeping one's level of control hidden behind a system that gives the appearance of equal influence for all, which requires limiting one's own use of power in order to maintain appearances. For example, zero corporate taxation would lead to violent revolt that would cost the corporations a great deal. It is wiser to set official tax rates for the sake of an appearance of justice and pacification, then create loopholes that reduce the effective tax rate to a fraction of that (which is what is done now).

Is the US the only country around the world that dictates for tax purposes when revenues and expenses are recognized?

No. Corporations have too much control over most governments. But the US government is the biggest liars when it comes to how much higher what they publicly claim corporations are taxed, 39%, and how much the largest corporations actually pay, about 12%.
The claimed rate is the highest among OEC countries, but the effective rate for the largest corporations is among the lowest.
The corporate tax revenues as a % of GDP is the second lowest among OEC countries, less than half that of most.

 

[ronburgundy]

Nope. Your prediction does not at all follow from the premise of corporate control for the reason I already explained.
Only in a overt dictatorship where government had to use constant violence to keep the masses under control would your prediction follow. That is a costly and in the long-run ineffective route to reaping the benefits of being in control. The more effective approach is subtly and keeping one's level of control hidden behind a system that gives the appearance of equal influence for all, which requires limiting one's own use of power in order to maintain appearances. For example, zero corporate taxation would lead to violent revolt that would cost the corporations a great deal. It is wiser to set official tax rates for the sake of an appearance of justice and pacification, then create loopholes that reduce the effective tax rate to a fraction of that (which is what is done now).

Or the other obvious explanation is that corporations don't have complete control over the government, just some along. And so do the people. The issue is that one group wants complete control and doesn't have it so they see instances of other parties having control and saying those people control government.

Nice goal-post moving from "control" to "complete control". The number of policies (and lack of regulations) that harm the public interests but favor corporate interests can only be explained by extreme influence, millions of times greater than predicted by proportional representation. The fact that government goes to lengths to hide the level of corporate influence and rarely goes against their interests until after corruption is exposed shows that government spends little effort proactively protecting the pubic's interests against conflicting corporate interests, and that most limits on corporate power and benefits are the minimum required to maintain appearances.