The Race For 2024

[ideologyhunter]

I can't compare apples and traitors.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Not all Republican populists are Donald Trump. There are at least one or two other individuals.

 

[ideologyhunter]

Not all Republican populists are Donald Trump. There are at least one or two other individuals.

Okay. The last few posts have been in response to the Cheney quotation which, despite its origin, is true. "In our nation's 246-year history, there has never been an individual who is a greater threat to our republic than Donald Trump."

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Not all Republican populists are Donald Trump. There are at least one or two other individuals.

At the moment he is the only that really matters. The RNC gave him the keys to the fortress. He is a alt-right populist whose self-interest has got to be near record levels for a President in this country.

Please keep your eyes on those windmills though, I'm sure one day they'll start spitting fire.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Not all Republican populists are Donald Trump. There are at least one or two other individuals.

At the moment he is the only that really matters. The RNC gave him the keys to the fortress. He is an alt-right populist whose self-interest has got to be near record levels for a President in this country.

For a person in this country!

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

I'm glad I was able to provide enough of a distraction for people to not answer any of the questions I recently asked.

Further proof that I don't answer questions I guess.

 

[pood]

Why do many posters here want libertarians to support Trump?

Who “wants” libertarians to support Trump? I think most people here would prefer that NOBODY support Trump.

 

[pood]

Not all Republican populists are Donald Trump. There are at least one or two other individuals.

Okay. The last few posts have been in response to the Cheney quotation which, despite its origin, is true. "In our nation's 246-year history, there has never been an individual who is a greater threat to our republic than Donald Trump."

Cheney must be relieved that he demoted himself to No. 2.

 

[pood]

So is the Neocon wing preferable to the Trump populism wing?

Trump is a faux-populist. He is a fascist. To answer your question, the Neocons, bad as they are, are better than MAGA fascists.

There, you got a couple of answers. What’s your answer to the above question, and why?

 

[pood]

Say this for the Neocons: they illicitly tried to overthrow foreign governments, but never our own. The fact that Trump is allowed to run for president again is brain-boggling. It would be as if Jefferson David had been the Democratic Party nominee for president in 1868.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Someone actually responded to my questions. Jimmy isn't going to pass out from holding is breath. Elixir can use you as an example and role model, although he won't.

I disagree that "people here would prefer that NOBODY support Trump". I've seen many times where people have expressed clearly that they want to count libertarians among Trump's supporters, and not just on the fallacious "you don't like our guy you must like the other guy" canard.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I guessed you hadn't heard about it, which is why I provided a link.

I've read the link, which was an incredibly biased blog post ending in an ad for the blogger's new book. I'm confused as to what your point is trying to be. Are you going to ask me my thoughts on every single killing that has occurred in the US and provide suspect context with each and every one of them? If so, I'm not really interested and I suspect the heat death of the universe will happen before we're through.

So what exactly is your point? What's the common link *you* perceive to be between Riley, Floyd and Lemp?

While I see government action and incation in all three cases, I'd say Lemp is the most tragic of the three and Riley's perhaps the least. That makes a spectrum. Unlike Floyd, everyone involved in the Lemp case is being very well protected by the government.

I'll expand on that.

I do believe that most political outrage is both selective and feigned. Lots of Democrats are of course upset about George Floyd, and lost of Republicans are of course upset about Laken Riley.

The killing of Floyd wasn't some Evers or King event. The killing of Floyd was the graphic depiction of generalized police mistreatment of blacks in America (actual mistreatment and disregard). The officer that killed Floyd had a long list of complaints against him regarding mistreatment and nothing was done about it. Nothing usually gets done when blacks complain about something. Floyd was a melting point of accumulated incidents that was in part inflamed by the social anxiety being created from the pandemic. Floyd was the last domino, not the first.

Laken Riley's case, is a bunch of right wing assholes using her tragic death as some sort of pole vault to sell a bullshit narrative that the illegals are dangerous to Americans. Riley's murder would be the first domino.

Moore-Coulter and all.

 

[Rhea]

Why do many posters here want libertarians to support Trump?

I’ve never heard any say that they WANT anyone to support Donald Trump. So Probably no one has answered your question because they can’t think of ANYONE, let alone MANY posters who fit your hypothetical, leaving it not answerable.

I have heard people observe that the Libertarian party does action that fails to fight against trump, often. And that this results in Trump having better results than he would if more people fought/rallied/argued/voted in a way that diminished Trump’s chances, even if it means rallying/arguing/voting for something that they also don’t like.

Example: Dick Cheney does NOT like Joe Biden or the Democratic party, but he made a video arguing against a vote for Trump. Same with Liz Cheney. They want Trump to not-win. Contrast to Bush, who does nothing to stop Trump, resulting in actions that indicate he would rather watch Trump win than act to avoid that.

To you, does that equal “want Trump to win” for Bush?

People here have discussed Libertarians in the same sense as they would discuss Bush II: choosing to take no action to ensure a Trump loss.

I would say they are willing to “let Trump win,” or that they “don’t want to make him lose.” Although it’s true that both sort of ending up meaning, “want to do things that result in a Trump win,” so maybe you have volunteered your own answer?

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

I guessed you hadn't heard about it, which is why I provided a link.

I've read the link, which was an incredibly biased blog post ending in an ad for the blogger's new book. I'm confused as to what your point is trying to be. Are you going to ask me my thoughts on every single killing that has occurred in the US and provide suspect context with each and every one of them? If so, I'm not really interested and I suspect the heat death of the universe will happen before we're through.

So what exactly is your point? What's the common link *you* perceive to be between Riley, Floyd and Lemp?

While I see government action and incation in all three cases, I'd say Lemp is the most tragic of the three and Riley's perhaps the least. That makes a spectrum. Unlike Floyd, everyone involved in the Lemp case is being very well protected by the government.

I'll expand on that.

I do believe that most political outrage is both selective and feigned. Lots of Democrats are of course upset about George Floyd, and lost of Republicans are of course upset about Laken Riley.

The killing of Floyd wasn't some Evers or King event. The killing of Floyd was the graphic depiction of generalized police mistreatment of blacks in America (actual mistreatment and disregard). The officer that killed Floyd had a long list of complaints against him regarding mistreatment and nothing was done about it. Nothing usually gets done when blacks complain about something. Floyd was a melting point of accumulated incidents that was in part inflamed by the social anxiety being created from the pandemic. Floyd was the last domino, not the first.

Laken Riley's case, is a bunch of right wing assholes using her tragic death as some sort of pole vault to sell a bullshit narrative that the illegals are dangerous to Americans. Riley's murder would be the first domino.

Moore-Coulter and all.

You know, if you had finished my quote you wouldn't be saying "Moore-Coulter". Here's the part you left out.

The most tragic of all cases are Duncan Lemp and Don Scott, and those arouse no anger from either side of the same party. Only Libertarians take any time to notice those two cases, and they are much more severe.

It is akin to how the one thing that would be the best weapon that Republicans can use to attack Democrats is also the same thing that would be the best weapon that Democrats can use to attack Republicans. The same crime in both cases, neither will use it because they both want to commit it, our foreign policy.

I still say you aren't nearly as upset about the killing your side likes to talk about - whichever one that is - as you pretend you are. If you were that upset, the two names that I mentioned would have stirred even stronger feelings.

Those two names didn't stir anything in you. QED.

 

[pood]

Someone actually responded to my questions. Jimmy isn't going to pass out from holding is breath. Elixir can use you as an example and role model, although he won't.

I disagree that "people here would prefer that NOBODY support Trump". I've seen many times where people have expressed clearly that they want to count libertarians among Trump's supporters, and not just on the fallacious "you don't like our guy you must like the other guy" canard.

I take it that, as a libertarian, you do NOT support Trump. Would that be correct? OTOH, if it turns out that you prefer Trump to Biden as the lesser of two evils, then you still cannot validly identify as a libertarian IMO.

Ayn Rand, the “objectivist” who hated libertarians mainly because she thought they stole most of her ideas and slapped their own label on it, did not even support Ronald Reagan. I can just imagine the scorn she would have heaped on Trump, notwithstanding that he shares his orange hair with her protagonist Howard Roark.

 

[Rhea]

Lemp’s case seems like a travesty of the entire “no knock” shitty attitude of police. Don Scott, though, why would people be likely to react as strongly to a 30+ year old cop problem?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I guessed you hadn't heard about it, which is why I provided a link.

I've read the link, which was an incredibly biased blog post ending in an ad for the blogger's new book. I'm confused as to what your point is trying to be. Are you going to ask me my thoughts on every single killing that has occurred in the US and provide suspect context with each and every one of them? If so, I'm not really interested and I suspect the heat death of the universe will happen before we're through.

So what exactly is your point? What's the common link *you* perceive to be between Riley, Floyd and Lemp?

While I see government action and incation in all three cases, I'd say Lemp is the most tragic of the three and Riley's perhaps the least. That makes a spectrum. Unlike Floyd, everyone involved in the Lemp case is being very well protected by the government.

I'll expand on that.

I do believe that most political outrage is both selective and feigned. Lots of Democrats are of course upset about George Floyd, and lost of Republicans are of course upset about Laken Riley.

The killing of Floyd wasn't some Evers or King event. The killing of Floyd was the graphic depiction of generalized police mistreatment of blacks in America (actual mistreatment and disregard). The officer that killed Floyd had a long list of complaints against him regarding mistreatment and nothing was done about it. Nothing usually gets done when blacks complain about something. Floyd was a melting point of accumulated incidents that was in part inflamed by the social anxiety being created from the pandemic. Floyd was the last domino, not the first.

Laken Riley's case, is a bunch of right wing assholes using her tragic death as some sort of pole vault to sell a bullshit narrative that the illegals are dangerous to Americans. Riley's murder would be the first domino.

Moore-Coulter and all.

You know, if you had finished my quote you wouldn't be saying "Moore-Coulter". Here's the part you left out.

If you read my post, you wouldn't have said that. My complaint about your statements was the inaccurate depiction of the two cases being relatable.

The most tragic of all cases are Duncan Lemp and Don Scott, and those arouse no anger from either side of the same party. Only Libertarians take any time to notice those two cases, and they are much more severe.

It is akin to how the one thing that would be the best weapon that Republicans can use to attack Democrats is also the same thing that would be the best weapon that Democrats can use to attack Republicans. The same crime in both cases, neither will use it because they both want to commit it, our foreign policy.

I still say you aren't nearly as upset about the killing your side likes to talk about - whichever one that is - as you pretend you are.

As I noted, the anger post Floyd wasn't remotely just about Floyd but the generalized mistreatment / violent mistreatment of blacks by police. This isn't some sort of dick measuring contest to see which dead black guy was the most aggrieved. The reaction to Floyd was an accumulation of ignored injustices suffered by countless blacks.

Riley and Floyd aren't compatible. The right-wing is making a huge deal out of her murder for political convenience.

Those two names didn't stir anything in you.

I assure you, I'm quite aware that there are countless people I am terribly unaware of who suffered needlessly. It isn't a competition. That is why I support positions that I do, and that I don't vote for people that haven't a shot in the world of ever having a chance of enacting changes to increase justice locally, state wise, and nationally.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

And that, Jimmy, is why I say you only care about whichever case your party cares about, and wouldn't care if your party didn't. That's how deep your concern for ... whichever case ... actually is.

 

[TomC]

Contrast to Bush, who does nothing to stop Trump, resulting in actions that indicate he would rather watch Trump win than act to avoid that.

For what it's worth,
I'm pretty sure that both presidents Bush made public statements condemning Trump.
It was a long time ago, 2016 IIRC, but that was back when real Republicans had not been sidelined so thoroughly, and the Bush' had no political future to consider.

But yeah, recent years have a much more "Apres Moi, Le Deluge" feel from the old school Republicans.
Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

And that, Jimmy, is why I say you only care about whichever case your party cares about, and wouldn't care if your party didn't. That's how deep your concern for ... whichever case ... actually is.

Well at least you didn't quote the text you didn't bother to read.