http://memolition.com/2014/02/27/wh...ople-on-earth-world-map-of-average-iq-scores/
Where does this data come from?
Which is more of a problem, since the test was probably formulated in the US.
The map pretty much illustrates that intelligence is manifest in different ways in those areas of the globe that aren't often exposed to a western education. I'm assuming that explains the downwards skew.
Which is more of a problem, since the test was probably formulated in the US.
The map pretty much illustrates that intelligence is manifest in different ways in those areas of the globe that aren't often exposed to a western education. I'm assuming that explains the downwards skew.
Yea. The skew itself discredits the validity of IQ tests. If it accurately measured.. well.. whatever it's measuring in the first place, then you would expect a much, much smaller variance. But if you're comparing a country filled with highly skilled workers, to a country with high illiteracy, how can you isolate 'intelligence' as a variable?
It is a powerful explanation, as IQ is mostly heritable within groups per identical twin studies, IQ variations have a moderate relationship to variations of economic productivity, and allele frequencies vary significantly among the races. ronburgundy, IQ is known to have a causal effect on the level of education, but the claim that education increases IQ is still not established. It is only speculation, though it should not be ignored.
ApostateAbe, What is the correlation between IQ and latitude? I suspect a more than .5.
ApostateAbe, What is the correlation between IQ and latitude? I suspect a more than .5.
from the linked article said:[P]
Indeed in all models that I tried with their data and the
additional variables in Table 1 [latitude, race, religion, prior communist rule], IQ remains the strongest
independent predictor of GDP. [/P]
ronburgundy, IQ is known to have a causal effect on the level of education, but the claim that education increases IQ is still not established. It is only speculation, though it should not be ignored.
The causal relationship from IQ to educational attainment potential is the primary purpose of the measure of IQ. The article you cited contains this paragraph, briefly laying out the case:ronburgundy, IQ is known to have a causal effect on the level of education, but the claim that education increases IQ is still not established. It is only speculation, though it should not be ignored.
Can you cite your evidence establishing a causal impact of IQ on education? This meta-analyses concludes that their is evidence for both causal directions, and that the results depend upon how the analytic techniques are biased by a priori assumptions of the causal direction.
I am not sure if anyone has calculated the correlation between average IQ and the magnitude of latitude, though it would be interesting. The more useful correlation is the very controversial correlation value between average SKIN COLOR and average IQ of nations of mostly indigenous populations: -0.9. It is from the study by Templer and Arikawa, "Temperature, skin color, per capita income, and IQ: An international perspective," 2006.ApostateAbe, What is the correlation between IQ and latitude? I suspect a more than .5.
The causal relationship from IQ to educational attainment potential is the primary purpose of the measure of IQ.Can you cite your evidence establishing a causal impact of IQ on education? This meta-analyses concludes that their is evidence for both causal directions, and that the results depend upon how the analytic techniques are biased by a priori assumptions of the causal direction.
The article you cited contains this paragraph, briefly laying out the case:
Does higher intelligence beget better educational outcomes?
In longitudinal studies that measure psychometric intelligence first and educational attainments later (thus assessing that causal chain), there is a moderate to strong correlation between the two, as assessed by years spent in full-time education, the highest qualification obtained by a person or the scores obtained on educational assessments.5 [Jencks C . Who Gets Ahead?: The Determinants of Economic Success in America. New York, NY: Basic Books; 1979.] For example, in a study of approximately 70 000 children in the UK, the general factor from the Cognitive Abilities Test (CAT) battery taken at age 11 years correlated about 0.8 with the general factor of grades on the General Certificate of Secondary Education (GCSE) examinations taken at age 16 years.6 [Deary IJ, Strand S, Smith P, Fernandes C . Intelligence and educational achievement. Intelligence 2007;35:13-21.] The general factor of the CAT test had very similar loadings from the three domains of verbal, non-verbal (abstract) and quantitative reasoning. Older studies have reported correlations ranging from 0.60 to 0.96.7–9 [Bouchard TJ . Twins reared together: what they tell us about human diversity. In: Fox SF, editor. Individuality and Determinism. New York: Plenum Publishing Corp; 1984. p. 147-84.; Kemp L . Environmental and other characteristics determining attainments in primary schools. Brit J Edu Psychol 1955;25:67-77.; Wiseman S . Environmental and innate factors and educational attainment. In: Meade J, Parks AS, editors. Genetic and Environmental Factors in Human Ability. London: Oliver and Boyd; 1966. p. 64-79.] The conclusion from such studies might be that intelligence has stronger causal effects on educational results than vice versa.
This evidence should be considered on top of the foundational knowledge that intelligence variations are mostly heritable, a point known from twin studies and a point also acknowledged by that article, implying: if education can change IQ, there is a small upper limit of that effect due to the much larger influence of genetic variations.
Yea. The skew itself discredits the validity of IQ tests. If it accurately measured.. well.. whatever it's measuring in the first place, then you would expect a much, much smaller variance. But if you're comparing a country filled with highly skilled workers, to a country with high illiteracy, how can you isolate 'intelligence' as a variable?
Let me preface by saying that I agree that it is highly likely that much of the between region variance in that map is due to education.
That said, there is no need to isolate "intelligence" from "education". Education is a perfectly plausible causal impact on intelligence, even if intelligence reflects a set fundamental cognitive skills that generally impact learning and problem solving, and is remains stable across the lifespan after a stage of early development.
The non-straw man conception of general intelligence that is studied and accepted as scientifically useful by most cognitive scientists allows for influence from education, and other environmental factor from nutrition to lead exposure, especially in early childhood.
Also, why would you expect a "much smaller variance" if the test were valid? It should vary as much as the thing it is measuring varies, given its level of sensitivity to small variations. Nothing about the amount of observed variance speaks to its validity.
The skew of the variance is a separate issue and does potentially speak to its validity, but maybe not. Not all variables are normally distributed. In fact, evolution often creates non-normally distributed traits due to different selection pressures on different subsets. Also, the map doesn't even show a non-normal distribution at the aggregate level, only that different levels of the distribution are non-randomly dispersed by location, which no reasonable theory of intelligence would predict it should be, given that it would impact how, where, and who migrates, and differential survival of different intelligence levels depending upon geographic location and migratory trajectory to wind up there.
The result that would most undermine the validity of IQ would be if, against all odds, something tied to reasoning and general problem solving wound up randomly distributed across all geographic areas.
The actual specific pattern of how IQ is distributed may well be more in line with effects of education, but neither the variance, its skew, nor it being non-randomly distributed are problematic for its validity, and the latter supports it. Also, if education winds up being the causal factor for the geographic pattern rather than any genetic variance that isn't even a problem for the validity of IQ or the concept of general intelligence. It would only mean that the kind of major educational differences that exist between cultures with centuries of pervasive differences are sufficient to impact whatever the test measures. Only a strawman theory of 100% genetic determinism would be invalidated by that. Education impacts very fundamental cognitive skills that in turn impact lifelong learning across many contexts, some of which are also impacted by genetic factors (which vary more within than between geographic groups). IQ is only claimed to measure such general cognitive skills, so if education is among the factors that influence them, then there is no problem. Also, education can plausibly have massive impact early in life that cannot be undone by later experiences. Thus, even the notion that these skill get set early then remain stable constraints is left untouched by the potential impact of education on cross cultural aggregate differences.
An intelligence quotient (IQ) is a score derived from one of several standardized tests designed to assess human intelligence.
capacity for learning, reasoning, understanding, and similar forms of mental activity; aptitude in grasping truths, relationships, facts, meanings, etc.
You would be correct.
IQ is correlated similarly with latitude and GDP at about .75.
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That doesn't really undermine the point though. Latitude is correlated to genetic lineage, ancestral history of migrations and exposure to various selection pressures.
The genetic contributor to IQ predicts that it should be correlated to latitude, because latitude impacts some of the evolutionary pressures that would have shaped the genetics that contribute to IQ.
It does mean that latitude could cause other environmental factors that then impact GDP in ways independent of any influence of IQ.
However, analyses that use both IQ and latitude as simultaneous predictors of GDP, show that IQ is the strongest single predictor, which is more consistent with a direct role of IQ rather than a spurious relation due to shared influence from latitude related environment.
from the linked article said:[P]
Indeed in all models that I tried with their data and the
additional variables in Table 1 [latitude, race, religion, prior communist rule], IQ remains the strongest
independent predictor of GDP. [/P]
You would be correct.
IQ is correlated similarly with latitude and GDP at about .75.
[/URL]
That doesn't really undermine the point though. Latitude is correlated to genetic lineage, ancestral history of migrations and exposure to various selection pressures.
The genetic contributor to IQ predicts that it should be correlated to latitude, because latitude impacts some of the evolutionary pressures that would have shaped the genetics that contribute to IQ.
It does mean that latitude could cause other environmental factors that then impact GDP in ways independent of any influence of IQ.
However, analyses that use both IQ and latitude as simultaneous predictors of GDP, show that IQ is the strongest single predictor, which is more consistent with a direct role of IQ rather than a spurious relation due to shared influence from latitude related environment.
from the linked article said:[P]
Indeed in all models that I tried with their data and the
additional variables in Table 1 [latitude, race, religion, prior communist rule], IQ remains the strongest
independent predictor of GDP. [/P]
ronburgandy, you asked a question that was seemingly NOT about group differences, and I answered the inquiry assuming you were inquiring about within-group variation, not between-group variation. I am not conflating those two patterns. What did you mean to ask about?The causal relationship from IQ to educational attainment potential is the primary purpose of the measure of IQ.
And the purpose of theories of racial intelligence was to rationalize slavery and mistreatment of non-whites. It unscientific purpose has nothing to do with what is true and what the measure reflects. Nothing about how g is measured makes it a measure of a cause rather than an effect. In fact, g is nothing but a statistical outcome on various tests, thus it is only a direct measure of effects and not causes. It is a measure of the common effect of some yet to be clarified cognitive skills on the outcome performance of various cognitive tasks. The question is what are those underlying skills and what impacts their development?, and how does the relative importance of those factors change depending upon whether your talking about variance within groups that share similar environments versus between groups, who often by their very definition as groups differ between groups in their environments more systematically than people within each group does?.
You repeatedly draw conclusions for the last question, claiming, that its genetics and that impact does not differ for various types of group comparisons, even though none of your data ever even speaks to the question.
The article you cited contains this paragraph, briefly laying out the case:
Does higher intelligence beget better educational outcomes?
In longitudinal studies that measure psychometric intelligence first and educational attainments later (thus assessing that causal chain), there is a moderate to strong correlation between the two, as assessed by years spent in full-time education, the highest qualification obtained by a person or the scores obtained on educational assessments.5 [Jencks C . Who Gets Ahead?: The Determinants of Economic Success in America. New York, NY: Basic Books; 1979.] For example, in a study of approximately 70 000 children in the UK, the general factor from the Cognitive Abilities Test (CAT) battery taken at age 11 years correlated about 0.8 with the general factor of grades on the General Certificate of Secondary Education (GCSE) examinations taken at age 16 years.6 [Deary IJ, Strand S, Smith P, Fernandes C . Intelligence and educational achievement. Intelligence 2007;35:13-21.] The general factor of the CAT test had very similar loadings from the three domains of verbal, non-verbal (abstract) and quantitative reasoning. Older studies have reported correlations ranging from 0.60 to 0.96.7–9 [Bouchard TJ . Twins reared together: what they tell us about human diversity. In: Fox SF, editor. Individuality and Determinism. New York: Plenum Publishing Corp; 1984. p. 147-84.; Kemp L . Environmental and other characteristics determining attainments in primary schools. Brit J Edu Psychol 1955;25:67-77.; Wiseman S . Environmental and innate factors and educational attainment. In: Meade J, Parks AS, editors. Genetic and Environmental Factors in Human Ability. London: Oliver and Boyd; 1966. p. 64-79.] The conclusion from such studies might be that intelligence has stronger causal effects on educational results than vice versa.
Note the very important and explicit qualifier in what you quoted. It said, "might" because that conclusion only seems to be supported by a superficial analysis of only the limited subset of studies reviewed in that paragraph. The very next paragraph lays out the case for causal impact of education on IQ.
"The conclusion from such studies might be that education influences the development of intelligence. However, this requires the caveat that the so-called ‘intelligence tests’ should be scrutinized to examine the extent to which they contain materials that appear in the taught curriculum.
So, it is possible that intelligence causes differences in educational outcomes, or that education causes intelligence differences, or a bit of both. Indeed, it is probably more complex than this. Readers can find further detailed consideration of possible non-linear effects of schooling on mental test scores, and the parts played by measurement error in intelligence and education measurement in a rather technical paper by Hansen et al."
The rest of the article goes onto to point out the analytic flaws and assumptions underlying epidemiological work claiming to show evidence of either causal direction, and how more and different types of data and analyses are requires to disentangle the mess of potential causal models capable of producing the non-experimental, correlational data inherent to all of these studies.
The idea that you are approaching this topic objectively and non-politically is undermined by your cherry-picking of the one paragraph in an 8 page paper that generally refutes your position that one causal direction is "known" while the other is "only speculation".
This evidence should be considered on top of the foundational knowledge that intelligence variations are mostly heritable, a point known from twin studies and a point also acknowledged by that article, implying: if education can change IQ, there is a small upper limit of that effect due to the much larger influence of genetic variations.
IOW, the centerpiece of your argument is the statistical fallacy that underlies almost all your arguments about IQ, namely your assumption that whatever determines the majority of variance at the individual level must be what is responsible for group-level differences. I have explained to you multiple times why this is false, so I won't bother with it again. But besides that, your "mostly heritable" claim is not true. The article cites that the estimate for genetics on childhood IQ is "< 50%", which means it is mostly environmental during the childhood years where education is occurring and where IQ and both amount of level and quality of education would be influencing each other. Regardless, "mostly" is irrelevant, because their is more than enough variance for genes and environment for either to be the primary determinant of group-level differences, which need not be and often are not due to the same proportion of causes responsible with within group or overall variance.