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The Shooting of Daniel Shaver

Given Shaver's physical position, it is ridiculous that this disgrace to the police profession was not found guilty.
 
laughing dog said:
Given Shaver's physical position, it is ridiculous that this disgrace to the police profession was not found guilty.
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His physical position is irrelevant.

You can go for a gun from a poor position. Even if you can't expect to succeed some criminals do it--preferring death to going back to jail.
 
And there are safer ways to ensure a person is unarmed than "Cross your ankles, hands on the floor, hands behind your head, up on your knees, hands in the air, don't say anything, crawl toward me, I SAID CRAWL TOWARD ME! YOU DO ONE MORE THING WRONG I WILL SHOOT YOU DEAD!! I SAID--" bangbangbangbangbang


 
James Brown said:
I admit, I would have been confused too. I wouldn't have known how to crawl toward him with my hands on my head. I hear the word "crawl" and I think, "Walk on my hands and knees." But I guess I'm one of those people that makes cops loaded with military-grade weaponry "feel scared."

I also don't understand the "come towards me so that I can put handcuffs on you" part. When you've got someone lying face down with their hands behind their head, isn't that when you approach them to subdue them?
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Yes.
 
This happened over in Mesa. A short drive from where I live.

I watched the video and for the life of me I can't figure how the cop thought he wasn't surrendering. Hands up, don't shoot, begging to not be shot. He couldn't have surrendered any harder without waving a white flag.

I think the cop was going to shoot him no matter what he did.
 
ksen said:
Jolly_Penguin said:
This whole situation seems ridiculous. That you folks introduced a racial element immediately on the first pages of this thread and made it about black people seems doubly ridiculous.

That BLM people came forward to support the victim here is refreshing and unexpected. So props to them for that.
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why was it unexpected?
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It's really not, if you're familiar with what groups like BLM are actually about. They also protested when the Australian woman (I forget her name) was shot by a black cop, organized anti-violence seminars, and sent donations to hurricane victims in Houston and Puerto Rico.

And in any case, this shooting is fucking sickening - might be worse than Philando Castille.
 
Loren Pechtel said:
laughing dog said:
Given Shaver's physical position, it is ridiculous that this disgrace to the police profession was not found guilty.
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His physical position is irrelevant.
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Not to any decent human being. In his position, the police officer would have enough time to see any firearm in his hand before Shaver had a chance to fire.
Loren Pechtel said:
You can go for a gun from a poor position. Even if you can't expect to succeed some criminals do it--preferring death to going back to jail.
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Basic reasoning tip - in order to go for a gun, you have to have one.
 
laughing dog said:
Not to any decent human being. In his position, the police officer would have enough time to see any firearm in his hand before Shaver had a chance to fire.
Loren Pechtel said:
You can go for a gun from a poor position. Even if you can't expect to succeed some criminals do it--preferring death to going back to jail.
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Basic reasoning tip - in order to go for a gun, you have to have one.
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1) He hadn't been searched, how was the cop supposed to know if he had one in his pants or not?

2) There is no question he did have a "gun" earlier--it turned out to be a pellet gun.
 
Loren Pechtel said:
laughing dog said:
Not to any decent human being. In his position, the police officer would have enough time to see any firearm in his hand before Shaver had a chance to fire.
Loren Pechtel said:
You can go for a gun from a poor position. Even if you can't expect to succeed some criminals do it--preferring death to going back to jail.
Click to expand...
Basic reasoning tip - in order to go for a gun, you have to have one.
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1) He hadn't been searched, how was the cop supposed to know if he had one in his pants or not?
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The police officer should wait to see, especially in this situation where his position made it very difficult for him to quickly get a gun and point it at anyone. Otherwise, you are basically arguing a police officer can shoot anyone until that officer KNOWS the person does not have a weapon - which is ridiculous.
Loren Pechtel said:
[
2) There is no question he did have a "gun" earlier--it turned out to be a pellet gun.
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So?
 
Loren Pechtel said:
1) He hadn't been searched, how was the cop supposed to know if he had one in his pants or not?
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I guess you didn't read RavenSky's post, written by a retired FBI agent, on how to determine if a suspect is armed:

Alternatively, Shaver could have been put on his knees, with fingers interlaced and hands placed atop his head. Brailsford could have had him rotate in a circle and then remain facing away from responding officers, so police could view his beltline and any potential secreted weapons. Shaver could have then been instructed to lift his shirt while facing away. This gives police valuable time to assess the threat and respond with deadly force appropriately if Shaver were to pull a weapon, spin around and attempt to locate a target.
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Or you can play Killer Simon Sez and count on being acquitted for murder.
 
Loren Pechtel said:
laughing dog said:
Given Shaver's physical position, it is ridiculous that this disgrace to the police profession was not found guilty.
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His physical position is irrelevant.

You can go for a gun from a poor position. Even if you can't expect to succeed some criminals do it--preferring death to going back to jail.
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He did NOT have a gun on him. Not even a fake gun. Not even a stick or a cell phone or a rake or another other object that people like you could claim looked like a gun.

Moreover, if you read the article I posted - that was written by a retired law enforcement professional - these cops made every mistake it was remotely possible to make.

When will you ever admit a cop fucked up when they killed someone?
 
Loren Pechtel said:
laughing dog said:
Not to any decent human being. In his position, the police officer would have enough time to see any firearm in his hand before Shaver had a chance to fire.
Loren Pechtel said:
You can go for a gun from a poor position. Even if you can't expect to succeed some criminals do it--preferring death to going back to jail.
Click to expand...
Basic reasoning tip - in order to go for a gun, you have to have one.
Click to expand...

1) He hadn't been searched, how was the cop supposed to know if he had one in his pants or not?
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So that's your solution?

Shoot everyone dead THEN search them for weapons :rolleyes:
 
Loren Pechtel said:
Don2 (Don1 Revised) said:
Loren Pechtel said:
Scare? I was just saying it wasn't a real gun.
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So you admit it.
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The point is the cops had no way of knowing it wasn't real.
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well, sure they did. all they had to do was assess the situation carefully and with proper procedures in order to determine there was no gun, just a "gun." this usually involves telling someone to place their hands above their heads or fingers locked on their heads.
 
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