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The vanguard of the Caravan is already in Mexico City, more than halfway to the border

I have seen interviews with SOME of the organizers. One on the major groups of organizers on the ground dealing with day to day logistics is Pueblo Sin Fronteras.

Thanks!
They don't look particularly sinister to me, though.
I never claimed they were sinister. They are an ideologically driven movement whose goal is the elimination of national borders, as their name implies.

I get that - I automatically inferred the sinister part; my bad.
And it's not like I PSF looks all good to me, just "well intended", at least from their own perspective. But probably counterproductive to their own cause.
"Open borders" has become such a right-wing touchstone that "less militarized borders" or "adequately staffed border crossings" are pushed off the table.
 
The alleged motives of the "organizers" and the alleged motives of the US government are irrelevant to the issue of the treatment of people with the respect to the rule of law. The US has laws for the treatment of people trying to enter the US. Those laws ought to be respected by all and followed by all.
 
The alleged motives of the "organizers" and the alleged motives of the US government are irrelevant to the issue of the treatment of people with the respect to the rule of law. The US has laws for the treatment of people trying to enter the US. Those laws ought to be respected by all and followed by all.

Indeed. This clearly has nothing whatsoever to do with the rule of law. It's entirely about appealing to racist white men who identify as Republican (and about 9% who identify as Democrat). Full stop.
 
One convicted murderer, one alleged MS-13 member, both caught.
What percentage of all those processed does that represent?

I love how they point to the successful execution of the rule of law as an indication that the rule of law is not being successfully implemented. It's like Trump stating that because he hasn't been indicted yet, there is no evidence of collusion.

If I were guilty, I'd be in jail. I'm not yet in jail, therefore I'm not guilty. Mafia logic.
 
In any humanitarian crisis, there will always be exploiters who try to take advantage of the opportunity. Whether you are the possessor of a conscience or a selfish asshole comes down to how you prioritize the following two activities:

1. Preventing every last freeloader from gaming the system
2. Helping the people who need help most urgently

I'll let you figure out which order corresponds to which category. In the meantime, also recognize that this applies to any public policy (health care, education, affirmative action, criminal justice, and welfare services to name a few more examples).
I've been saying this for ages. I think conservatives are people who are hypersensitive to "the rules being gamed". With welfare for example, it so enrages them that somewhere, some guy is taking advantage of welfare that they would rather not help many genuine cases that they would probably not mind in isolation, for the fear of this guy.

Fundamentally, it is a temperament that would rather see an innocent person be put in jail rather than 10 guilty people go free.
 
Fundamentally, it is a temperament that would rather see an innocent person be put in jail rather than 10 guilty people go free.

So presumption of innocence is the same thing as letting in unlimited number of mass migrants because some of them might be genuine asylum seekers?

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Indeed. This clearly has nothing whatsoever to do with the rule of law. It's entirely about appealing to racist white men who identify as Republican (and about 9% who identify as Democrat). Full stop.

It's bullshit leftist trope that it's "racist" to reject open borders and mass migration.

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The alleged motives of the "organizers" and the alleged motives of the US government are irrelevant to the issue of the treatment of people with the respect to the rule of law. The US has laws for the treatment of people trying to enter the US. Those laws ought to be respected by all and followed by all.

If the asylum law no longer works in the modern age, it needs to be changed. Where permissive asylum laws lead to these days can be best seen with Europe, who is being overrun by millions of mass migrants (mostly Muslim btw.) who all claim to be "asylum seekers" even though >95% are economic migrants.
 
It's bullshit leftist trope that it's "racist" to reject open borders and mass migration.

Nice strawman. Care to address what else I wrote? Like the fact that no jobs are at stake; no increase in your taxes (other than to pay for the dumbshow Trump is putting on, of course); no undue threat to you or your family or friends or fellow 'Muricans; not one goddamned thing, except numerous net benefits, such as jobs no one else will do being filled and the 23 billion in income taxes they pay every year, not to mention billions in other forms of state and local taxes:

The best estimates come from research by the Institute of Taxation and Economic Policy, a Washington, DC, think tank, which suggests that about half of undocumented workers in the United States file income tax returns. The most recent IRS data, from 2015, shows that the agency received 4.4 million income tax returns from workers who don’t have Social Security numbers, which includes a large number of undocumented immigrants. That year, they paid $23.6 billion in income taxes.
...
Still, all undocumented workers fund public schools and local government services by paying sales and property taxes like everyone else. The Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy estimates that they pay about $11.7 billion a year in state and local taxes.

And workers who get a paycheck, like Maria, still have payroll taxes for Medicare and Social Security withheld from their paycheck, even if they put a fake Social Security number on their W-2 form. The IRS estimates that unauthorized workers pay about $9 billion in payroll taxes annually.

So that's a total of $44 Billion every year from undocumented immigrants that doesn't benefit any of them. Just us. And if memory serves, you are on Medicare, so they are directly benefiting you as well.

So wtf is your problem if not racism?
 
There are a few minor problems with people coming into the US "illegally".

None that effect 99.999% of Americans however.
 
If the asylum law no longer works in the modern age, it needs to be changed.
Whether asylum laws no longer works or not is a matter of opinion. I have not seen disinterested evidence that it no longer works.

More importantly, the law should be followed until the law is legally changed.
 
Nice strawman. Care to address what else I wrote? Like the fact that no jobs are at stake;
So they'll just freeload?

no increase in your taxes (other than to pay for the dumbshow Trump is putting on, of course);
How do you figure? These illegals/caravaners tend to be from less educated, more religious segments of Central American society. They tend to have a lot of kids. Kids tend to get a lot of taxpayer funded benefits.
Also, a lot of the caravaners are sick. Who will treat their TB and other maladies once they are on US soil? Uncle Sam, that's who!

no undue threat to you or your family or friends or fellow 'Muricans;
Except that a whole violent gang, the MS13, was started by illegal Central Americans.

not one goddamned thing, except numerous net benefits, such as jobs no one else will do being filled
It's the other way around - the illegals depress wages for these jobs so much . Besides, there are only so many jobs like that. In our knowledge economy the share of unskilled jobs is less and less. And those Americans doing these kinds of jobs are harmed when we let in illegals to take these jobs away by being willing to do them for less.
What will happen when more and more of these caravans start arriving and there aren't enough unskilled jobs for them to take? Remember, Merkel in 2015 initially opened the borders for a few hundred Syrians. Over a million Syrians, Afghans, Pakistanis, Iraqis, Iranians etc. walked through by the end of 2015. If this caravan is let in, expect many more to form.

and the 23 billion in income taxes they pay every year, not to mention billions in other forms of state and local taxes:
This article is pro-illegal propaganda. But even the author says that only half pay taxes - which means half do not. And they do get tax-payer benefits. For one, if they have children in the US, these children can get all benefits because of stupid interpretation of 14th amendment. But even children who come with their parents illegally can go to school for free. In-state college tuition is a benefit given to illegals in most states. California even has a tax-payer funded student loan specially for illegals. Then there are roads the illegals drive on, often without license or insurance. Or how about the ability to go to emergency room if something happens to them?

Still, all undocumented workers fund public schools and local government services by paying sales and property taxes like everyone else. The Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy estimates that they pay about $11.7 billion a year in state and local taxes.
And many illegals have a lot of children so they get more than their money's worth there.

And workers who get a paycheck, like Maria, still have payroll taxes for Medicare and Social Security withheld from their paycheck, even if they put a fake Social Security number on their W-2 form. The IRS estimates that unauthorized workers pay about $9 billion in payroll taxes annually.
I bet that in the next few years there will be either a bill or a SCOTUS case about giving illegals social security and Medicare. Just wait for it!
So that's a total of $44 Billion every year from undocumented immigrants that doesn't benefit any of them. Just us. And if memory serves, you are on Medicare, so they are directly benefiting you as well.
Just like your reasoning skills, your memory is faulty. I am a few decades too young for Medicare.

So wtf is your problem if not racism?
I don't want to close the borders altogether. I want immigration to be legal, selective, and based on our needs as a country. What's wrong with that? It's insanity to let in people just because they march to the border and demand to be let in.
 
Whether asylum laws no longer works or not is a matter of opinion. I have not seen disinterested evidence that it no longer works.
One word: Europe. Do you want to end up like them, overrun by millions of bogus "asylum seekers"?

More importantly, the law should be followed until the law is legally changed.
Executive orders are part of the US legal system. If Obama had the right to issue an EO about dreamers, then surely Yrump should be able to issue an EO about asylum for those caught entering illegally.
 
One word: Europe. Do you want to end up like them, overrun by millions of bogus "asylum seekers"?
You confuse your bigoted assumptions with fact.

Executive orders are part of the US legal system. If Obama had the right to issue an EO about dreamers, then surely Yrump should be able to issue an EO about asylum for those caught entering illegally.
Executive orders are to comply with existing law not supplant it.
 
Arab coffee?

It was the US that carried out the brutal attack of Arabs which is the beginning of the immigration issue in Europe.

The US is the root cause of the problem.

Not the victims of US terrorism.

The same is true of Central and South America.

The US insane drug war has created dangerous and powerful gangs.

But if you try to flee from these US created gangs there is nowhere to go to since the nation responsible never takes responsibility for the problems it creates.
 
Arab coffee?

It was the US that carried out the brutal attack of Arabs which is the beginning of the immigration issue in Europe.

The US is the root cause of the problem.

Not the victims of US terrorism.

Arabs and other Muslims (Turks have their own style of coffee) have been invading Europe since the 7th century. Long before there was an US.
These days they use the "asylum gambit", and they are sadly succeeding.
 
Arab coffee?

It was the US that carried out the brutal attack of Arabs which is the beginning of the immigration issue in Europe.

The US is the root cause of the problem.

Not the victims of US terrorism.

Arabs and other Muslims (Turks have their own style of coffee) have been invading Europe since the 7th century. Long before there was an US.
These days they use the "asylum gambit", and they are sadly succeeding.

That is about as relevant as the price of coffee in China.

The US is responsible for the CURRENT problem, not all problems in history.

The current problem began after the US terrorist attack of Iraq in 2003.
 
The current problem began after the US terrorist attack of Iraq in 2003.
First of all, that was not a terrorist attack. Muslims flying planes into US buildings in 2001 was a terrorist attack. And second, the war against Iraq is hardly the beginning of history. You cannot ignore what came before it, going back to when an Arabian pedophile convinced his neighbors that Angel Gabriel spoke to him and that therefore they should refrain from pork and alcohol and follow him to conquer a bunch of places.
 
Wake up and smell the Arab coffee!

If you put enough cream and sugar in it, it's lighter, Derec.

1526493104575-version1.jpeg
 
You cannot ignore what came before it, going back to when an Arabian pedophile convinced his neighbors that Angel Gabriel spoke to him and that therefore they should refrain from pork and alcohol and follow him to conquer a bunch of places.

Dein Kampf.
 
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