The vanguard of the Caravan is already in Mexico City, more than halfway to the border

[Elixir]

Open borders would make 2008 seem like a utopia.

TODAY makes 2008 seem like utopia.
Thanks, Donald.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So what is the death toll along the southern border because of that caravan? How many families lost loved ones just before Xmas because the caravaners laid waste to their homes?

 

[Trausti]

So what is the death toll along the southern border because of that caravan? How many families lost loved ones just before Xmas because the caravaners laid waste to their homes?

If they had accepted Mexico's offer of asylum they'd have been fine. But that's boring. No sensational headlines with that.

 

[laughing dog]

So what is the death toll along the southern border because of that caravan? How many families lost loved ones just before Xmas because the caravaners laid waste to their homes?

If they had accepted Mexico's offer of asylum they'd have been fine.

True. But they'd also have been fine if our policy was being driven by a raging bigot trying to keep his bigoted promises to his base.

And not content with the tragedies the implementation of his inhumane border policy causes, he is ramping up his nastiness by causing a partial government shutdown, thereby inflicting needless hardship on even more people.

And all over an expensive and pointless monument to himself in order to deflect attention from his multiple problems.

But that's boring. No sensational headlines with that. And his base gleefully swallows the shit he feeds them and asks for more.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

We saw some of that in 2008.

No, actually, we didn’t. What happened in 2008 was certain businesses took advantage of the market collapse—and everyone’s fears relating to it—in order to force one worker to do the job of five for the same salary. The result was businesses predictably failing because their workforce was overburdened and fucking things up, which is precisely why we saw an increase in hirings—continuing to today—throughout Obama’s administration.

Fantasy. I was one of those who lost their job in the crash. The cause was simple: something in excess of 80% of our demand went poof. Most jobs in the company were handled by one person--in the office they rarely had the skill to cover another position, in the plant that would not be physically possible without causing big backlogs. The only way I see worker mistakes contributing to this was pure laziness--the person who kept an eye on whether people were working on the right job or not got fired for political reasons and there was a lot of trouble with workers doing what was in front of them rather than spending 30 seconds to locate the thing at the top of their screen. The result was warranty work tended to die somewhere on the production line.

Open borders would make 2008 seem like a utopia.

Horseshit. Once again, just as with 2008, everything will simply find its level and normalize. It would be identical to what we have now only no children dying. Those who could make the trek would simply fill menial jobs no one else wants. Those with any skills will be in competition for existing jobs. The rest will have to create their own enterprises just like everyone else.

This is no different from making Pueto Rico a state. Or Kansas, for that matter.

Yeah, things will find their level--it's just with open borders that level will for the vast majority of positions be minimum wage.

 

[Derec]

So to get back to the issue of Caravan of bogus asylum seekers, here is CNN with a sympathetic article about the family of the dead Guatemalan kid. But not even CNN can hide the fact that the father and the kid were economic migrants, not legitimate asylum seekers.
Why the family of the boy who died in Border Patrol custody decided to send him north

Felipe's mother, also named Catarina, stood in the family's wood-slat shack in a remote Guatemalan village near the Mexican border Thursday and implored American authorities to release his body. She also asked that Agustín Gómez be allowed to join his brother in Virginia and work to repay the nearly $7,000 loan that helped finance the journey north.

Sorry, repaying loans one took in order to illegally migrate is not a legitimate grounds for asylum. And is the brother living in Virginia illegal also? Then he should be deported as well.

Felipe's mother said she and Agustín Gómez agreed that the boy would join his father on the journey north because of the economic hardship in the small mountain village. The mother, Catarina Alonzo Perez, remained behind with her other children.

No hint of war or any persecution or anything like that.

Last year, about 200 residents from the area migrated to the United States, Garcia said. Most have not returned. Between November and December, many more headed north.

This is why we can't allow any illegal migration. Letting them in merely encourages others to do the same. Sending them back would send the message that it's not worth it.

On December 8, Jakelin Caal Maquin, 7, died in a hospital two days after she was taken to a Border Patrol station. Her body was returned home last weekend to the indigenous Guatemalan community of Raxruha.
Her family said she fled the country with her father, Nery Gilberto Caal, 29, in search of a better life. She survived the 2,000-mile journey from northern Guatemala only to die less than 48 hours after Border Patrol agents detained her at a US-Mexico border crossing.

I.e. that family are also illegal economic migrants. Therefore, it is the parents who are responsible for their children dying from being taken on a trip of over 2000 miles.

It is untenable to allow abuse of the asylum process for large scale migration, like is happening in Europe with millions of mass migrants already. US will face a similar fate unless we do something about this.

 

[Toni]

So to get back to the issue of Caravan of bogus asylum seekers, here is CNN with a sympathetic article about the family of the dead Guatemalan kid. But not even CNN can hide the fact that the father and the kid were economic migrants, not legitimate asylum seekers.
Why the family of the boy who died in Border Patrol custody decided to send him north


Sorry, repaying loans one took in order to illegally migrate is not a legitimate grounds for asylum. And is the brother living in Virginia illegal also? Then he should be deported as well.

No hint of war or any persecution or anything like that.

Last year, about 200 residents from the area migrated to the United States, Garcia said. Most have not returned. Between November and December, many more headed north.

This is why we can't allow any illegal migration. Letting them in merely encourages others to do the same. Sending them back would send the message that it's not worth it.

On December 8, Jakelin Caal Maquin, 7, died in a hospital two days after she was taken to a Border Patrol station. Her body was returned home last weekend to the indigenous Guatemalan community of Raxruha.
Her family said she fled the country with her father, Nery Gilberto Caal, 29, in search of a better life. She survived the 2,000-mile journey from northern Guatemala only to die less than 48 hours after Border Patrol agents detained her at a US-Mexico border crossing.

I.e. that family are also illegal economic migrants. Therefore, it is the parents who are responsible for their children dying from being taken on a trip of over 2000 miles.

It is untenable to allow abuse of the asylum process for large scale migration, like is happening in Europe with millions of mass migrants already. US will face a similar fate unless we do something about this.

People often start on journeys that end up being much more difficult than they imagined they would be. And ones that end up much better than they had imagined. As anyone who has moved cross country can attest--or even taken a family vacation.


People who travel thousands of miles on foot with small children are doing so out of desperation, out of fear of the deaths of the children they take with them if they stay or leave the kids behind. Yes, some travel with children because they are told that they have a better chance of being taken in if they have their child with them. What? Don't they follow the news on their unlimited data plan phones?

If we really, really want to help these people who are so desperate to create a better life for themselves and their children and families, we could quit propping up bad governments, align our policies to foster better economic and educational and health opportunities for people in developing countries instead of using them to supply us with drugs we deem illegal and therefore create more dangerous worlds for all of us.

We could help people instead of reviling them.

FWIW, I really don't want to see illegal immigrants here taking jobs that American corporations can continue to leave under compensated, too dangerous, too tedious, too grueling and without possibility of advancement to be of interest to American workers. The seeming endless supply of illegal immigrants to take jobs that pay little and demand much and offer poor, often dangerous working conditions and grueling hours means that regular, mostly white Americans can be safe in their nice little lives without thinking much about the conditions under which their food was grown, harvested, shipped and prepared and the cost to those who toil to put food on our tables and clothes on our backs and care for our elderly and disabled.

 

[Derec]

People often start on journeys that end up being much more difficult than they imagined they would be.

One can always turn around, you know.

And ones that end up much better than they had imagined. As anyone who has moved cross country can attest--or even taken a family vacation.

Or tried to enter another country illegally ...

People who travel thousands of miles on foot with small children are doing so out of desperation, out of fear of the deaths of the children they take with them if they stay or leave the kids behind.

That does not mean they should be let into US.

Yes, some travel with children because they are told that they have a better chance of being taken in if they have their child with them.

Yes, that's another problem. They are gaming the system using their own children as pawns. And then they and the open border leftists blame the border patrol when a couple of children die.

What? Don't they follow the news on their unlimited data plan phones?

Probably not so much the "unlimited data plan", but it's amazing how supposedly desperate "asylum seekers" all have latest smart phones.

If we really, really want to help these people who are so desperate to create a better life for themselves and their children and families, we could quit propping up bad governments, align our policies to foster better economic and educational and health opportunities for people in developing countries instead of using them to supply us with drugs we deem illegal and therefore create more dangerous worlds for all of us.

I am all for that. But which are the "bad governments" and which are good? The US left wing supported Honduran president Zelaya, who wanted to make himself a Chevez-like dictator. Minus the cancer I am sure. And Chavez himself was celebrated by the left wing in the US and elsewhere. Now Venezuela is the likely worst economy in the Americas. I am sure Honduras would be even worse off now if Zelaya was not deposed.

FWIW, I really don't want to see illegal immigrants here taking jobs that American corporations can continue to leave under compensated, too dangerous, too tedious, too grueling and without possibility of advancement to be of interest to American workers. The seeming endless supply of illegal immigrants to take jobs that pay little and demand much and offer poor, often dangerous working conditions and grueling hours means that regular, mostly white Americans can be safe in their nice little lives without thinking much about the conditions under which their food was grown, harvested, shipped and prepared and the cost to those who toil to put food on our tables and clothes on our backs and care for our elderly and disabled.

So why do you and other Dems oppose border control and deporting illegals? Why so much support for pro-illegal policies like sanctuary cities and amnesties?
Chuck Schumer used to support wall funding before he was against it. Is it all because of Trump derangement syndrome?

 

[Toni]

One can always turn around, you know.

But that way, death and disaster lie. Which is why they are leaving behind everyone and everything they know: in the hopes that they will find something better.

That's why my ancestors came to the US. During a time when there was no such thing as 'illegal' immigration or legal immigration. People scraped up what they could and undertook a very dangerous journey to an unknown land. I admire the courage of my ancestors and of those who are trying so desperately to make better lives for themselves and others...

Or tried to enter another country illegally ...

Why go through so much for not nearly as good a chance?

Why did your family immigrate to the states?

Yes, some travel with children because they are told that they have a better chance of being taken in if they have their child with them.

Yes, that's another problem. They are gaming the system using their own children as pawns. And then they and the open border leftists blame the border patrol when a couple of children die.

You have no children. You have no idea what it is like to leave a child you love behind. You have no idea whether they had a choice about leaving a child behind, or whether the choice was a more dangerous one to leave them than to bring them.

You are not worth the effort it takes to breathe if you cannot spare some feeling for children dying. Shame on you.

What? Don't they follow the news on their unlimited data plan phones?

Probably not so much the "unlimited data plan", but it's amazing how supposedly desperate "asylum seekers" all have latest smart phones.

One of my former co-workers who came to the US seeking asylum was fortunate enough to land a job that gave him a working visa until his asylum came through. He was well educated, in fact, a judge in his home country. He was not destitute although he and his family fled with whatever they could carry. Eventually, his asylum application was approved and he was able to move to a better job than driving people around.

Phones can be cheap luxuries, or at least relatively obtainable. All the free data in the world doesn't help if you can't access it because of the remoteness of your location or physical impediments such as hills and mountains. I know. I live in an area where I won't have service if I drive in certain directions, due to the topography of the region where I live.

You write as though these usually desperately poor people have perfect knowledge, and the same resources and news sources and choices that you do.

You should be ashamed.

If we really, really want to help these people who are so desperate to create a better life for themselves and their children and families, we could quit propping up bad governments, align our policies to foster better economic and educational and health opportunities for people in developing countries instead of using them to supply us with drugs we deem illegal and therefore create more dangerous worlds for all of us.

I am all for that. But which are the "bad governments" and which are good? The US left wing supported Honduran president Zelaya, who wanted to make himself a Chevez-like dictator. Minus the cancer I am sure. And Chavez himself was celebrated by the left wing in the US and elsewhere. Now Venezuela is the likely worst economy in the Americas. I am sure Honduras would be even worse off now if Zelaya was not deposed.

It's not at all an easy choice, is it? So how can we blame people for fleeing the results of some of our bad choices? What do we owe those who are innocent in all of this? Surely, at least a chance for a better life.

So why do you and other Dems oppose border control and deporting illegals? Why so much support for pro-illegal policies like sanctuary cities and amnesties?
Chuck Schumer used to support wall funding before he was against it. Is it all because of Trump derangement syndrome?

The wall is ineffective, ecologically horrible and seizes the private properties of individuals along both sides of the border. For starters.

I support immigration, work visas, asylum where needed and changes in policy to help the plight of those who are fleeing war, including drug wars and civil wars and otherwise inescapable poverty.

I have a fair number of friends who are immigrants or whose parents immigrated. They are decent, hard working people who tremendously appreciate the freedom and opportunities they find here. Is it all easy? Of course not!

In my DC days, from time to time, I had reason to be in contact with Immigration. The policies and how they were carried out could be extremely....arbitrary and capricious. Some of the people I worked with who came to the US believed they were coming here following the rules only to find that some piece of paper was 'wrong' or was being questioned or rejected, leaving them in a kind of limbo that they had extreme difficulty escaping and forced them into jobs that were far below their qualifications. Not the fair, even handed enforcement that I would have imagined before I worked with immigration.