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The Vice-Presidential Debate

Cheerful Charlie said:
Meanwhile, the fly knew a piece of shit when it smelled one.
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Okay, that right there should be SNL’s hook...

Pence's continuing interrupting and mansplaining isn't going to go over with women watching this debate.
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Nope, it sure isn’t.
Susan should have just removed his time from the next question. He definitely took extra the amount of a full question.
 
skepticalbip said:
A waste of time. I didn't hear anything that hasn't been said over and over in the many campaign ads that have been aired.

Pence avoided the question of how "pre-existing conditions" would be covered and Harris avoided the question of if they plan on stacking the supreme court. Not even asked is the question of eliminating the filibuster rule in the Senate. It seems to me that these are the kind of positions the public should should know before deciding if they want to vote for (or against) someone.
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Since the Senate determines its rules, it doesn't matter what the POTUS ticket says it would do about it if elected.

Both candidates did a piss poor job of addressing the actual question put to them.

The fly on Pence's hair stole the entire show.

I did like the part where Mr. Pence said Biden's position was inexplicable and then proceeded to "splain" it.
 
Rhea said:
Cheerful Charlie said:
Meanwhile, the fly knew a piece of shit when it smelled one.
Click to expand...

Okay, that right there should be SNL’s hook...
Click to expand...

Pence was spreading the BS pretty thick.

Pence's continuing interrupting and mansplaining isn't going to go over with women watching this debate.
Click to expand...

Nope, it sure isn’t.
Susan should have just removed his time from the next question. He definitely took extra the amount of a full question.
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If you ask me it was humiliating to watch Pence run rough shod over both Harris and Page. And Page let him get away with it! They need some better enforcement of the rules because Trump and Pence have absolutely no regard for fair play. I thought Page would have enough experience to see what was going on. Obviously she didn't or else felt intimidated by a whiter than white looking dude. I'm a guy but that was simply humiliating. And if Harris had it a bit more together she would have been shaming Pence until he backed down. I'm really missing Bernie and Elizabeth.

ETA - All in all though, Harris didn't harm Biden's campaign. Which was key.

ETA - I just watched the MSNBC after debate analysis and the first point Joy Reid made was exactly what I felt. She said anyone with a black mother would recognize Kamala's look when Pence was refusing to relent. Hopefully enough black voters see the same thing as the same old thing and get good and motivated.

She also made the point (to answer skepticalbip):
skepticalbip said:
...
Pence avoided the question of how "pre-existing conditions" would be covered and Harris avoided the question of if they plan on stacking the supreme court. ...
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Harris wasn't there to answer Pence's questions. It was another power play by Pence to put Harris in her place as a woman.

ETA - Chris Wallace on the Fox panel says he thinks Biden/Harris came out ahead.
 
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Cheerful Charlie said:
It was a punk debate. Pence lied the usual lies, Harris didn't seem as good as I had hoped, she seems to lack the needed killer instinct you need to debate a liar like Pence. On the other hand, Pence didn't seem to appeal to anything outside the MAGA mouth breather base. handed a softball question about the supreme court nomination, she failed top point out how the GOP, Trump and McConnell cheated the Dems out of 2 nominations. She did mention the SC nomination should be held off til after the election, but that is going to fall on deaf ears.

Meanwhile, the fly knew a piece of shit when it smelled one.

Pence's continuing interrupting and mansplaining isn't going to go over with women watching this debate.
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She had to walk a tightrope, because of her gender and her race. She could have have wiped the floor with dense Pence but didn’t need to since they are wining. Her mandate was to do no harm. She did that very well.
 
laughing dog said:
skepticalbip said:
A waste of time. I didn't hear anything that hasn't been said over and over in the many campaign ads that have been aired.

Pence avoided the question of how "pre-existing conditions" would be covered and Harris avoided the question of if they plan on stacking the supreme court. Not even asked is the question of eliminating the filibuster rule in the Senate. It seems to me that these are the kind of positions the public should should know before deciding if they want to vote for (or against) someone.
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Since the Senate determines its rules, it doesn't matter what the POTUS ticket says it would do about it if elected.
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That is true according to the Constitution. However in our current age of partisan politics the reality is a bit different. Currently, if the president and Senate majority are of different parties, then it does work that way. If they are of the same party then there is a lot of corporation between the branches and the Senate Majority Leader will quite often follow the President's 'suggestions'. I suppose the question should more properly have been, 'If Democrats win the presidency and control of the Senate, will the President encourage the Senate Majority Leader to eliminate the filibuster rule'?

It seems like an important question since Harry Reid eliminated the filibuster for judges (to help Obama) which Republicans extended to Supreme Court justices when they took control of the Senate. This allowed Trump to nominate and get almost 200 judges approved, seat two Supreme Court Justices, and nominate a third that will likely be seated.
Both candidates did a piss poor job of addressing the actual question put to them.
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Yes they did.
The fly on Pence's hair stole the entire show.
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I missed that. I was listening but wasn't watching because I was busy with other things too.
 
Attacking him wouldn't have "played well"; a lot of American get very angry when they see a man being publicly humiliated by a woman.
 
Looking at Twitter, that fly on Mike Pence's head got a lot of celebrity.

Dylan Minnette on Twitter: "it’s the fly appearing out of nowhere for me" / Twitter
then
Danielle 🏳️*🌈 on Twitter: "the fly knew it's 2 minute limit https://t.co/eNwQrxxscy" / Twitter

The fly stayed on Mike Pence's head for nearly 2 minutes.

'Thank you, Mr. Vice President': Another moderator struggles to control the conversation - POLITICO
Moderator Susan Page of USA Today
She also drew criticism for her inability to rein in Pence, as he frequently interjected during Harris’ answers. She repeatedly tried and failed to get Pence to stop talking, saying variations of "thank you" or “thank you, Mr. Vice President" 22 times over the course of the evening, to no effect.

“’Thank you VP Pence,’ may not be the best approach for a moderator to cut off a man running amok with a blatant disregard for the debate rules,” longtime news anchor Dan Rather tweeted.

Throughout the evening, Pence repeatedly exceeded the time limits set by the debate commissioners on individual questions and interrupted Harris, forcing Page to interject — mostly unsuccessfully.

However, Harris jumped in on Pence as well, and ultimately the candidates ended up with roughly the same speaking time.
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SP also didn't ask followup questions, and the two candidates often reverted to talking points.
 
Pence Clashes With Harris and Evades Question on Peaceful Transfer of Power - The New York Times
  • Mike Pence changed the subject nearly every time he was asked a tough question.
  • Kamala Harris faced a double standard on the debate stage.
  • Pence, like Trump last week, evades a question on a peaceful transfer of power if Biden wins.
  • An exchange about Breonna Taylor and George Floyd crystallizes the candidates’ opposing views on racial justice.
  • Pence accuses Harris of wanting to pack the Supreme Court. She says the next president should fill the vacancy.
  • A fly sat atop Mike Pence’s head for two minutes during the V.P. debate.
  • Pence claims not to know how Barrett would rule on abortion and misrepresents Harris’s position on Roe v. Wade.
  • ‘They are coming for you,’ Harris says of Trump-Pence attacks on the Affordable Care Act.
  • Karen Pence flouted the debate rules by not wearing a mask.
  • ‘I’m speaking’ becomes a viral moment for Harris, and a new catchphrase for merchandise.
  • Harris attacks Trump for lack of transparency, both on his health and his taxes.
  • Trump tries to make Pence’s night a little more about Trump.
  • Harris calls Trump’s virus response the ‘greatest failure of any presidential administration.’
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"Greatest failure of any presidential administration?" Trump's coronavirus failure was a huge one, but as Presidential failures go, there were likely bigger ones, like not doing much about the South's preparing to secede in the years before the Civil War.

"A local TV news reporter from California clocked the fly’s screen time on Mr. Pence’s head at 2 minutes, 3 seconds."

The plexiglass barriers in the debate were way too small. Each one should have wrapped around each candidate. Not just barriers but booths.

About KH,
She then linked the killing of Ms. Taylor to the killing of other Black people by the police, like George Floyd in Minneapolis, and said that if elected, she and Joseph R. Biden Jr. would ban chokeholds, create a national registry for police officers who act illegally, close private prisons and decriminalize marijuana, among other changes to the criminal justice system.

As a former prosecutor, she said, “I know what I’m talking about.”

Mr. Pence, by contrast, claimed that it was a “great insult” to police officers to say that there was implicit racial bias in law enforcement at all. Research consistently shows that officers disproportionately stop Black people, arrest Black people, and use force — often fatal — against Black people.
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Kamala Harris & Mike Pence 2020 Vice Presidential Debate Transcript - Rev

"And as USA TODAY said, it’s essentially the same plan as you co-sponsored with AOC when she submitted it in the Senate."

Except that AOC is in the House, not in the Senate.
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "For the record @Mike_Pence, it’s Congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez to you." / Twitter

Text - H.Res.109 - 116th Congress (2019-2020): Recognizing the duty of the Federal Government to create a Green New Deal. | Congress.gov | Library of Congress
Checking on related bills, I found
S.Res.59 - 116th Congress (2019-2020): A resolution recognizing the duty of the Federal Government to create a Green New Deal. | Congress.gov | Library of Congress

Submitted by Sen. Ed Markey, D-MA.

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "The Green New Deal is and has been lied about nonstop, and yet is STILL popular.

It’s a massive job-creation and infrastructure plan to decarbonize & increase quality of work and life.

It’s okay to call the GOP out on those lies just as we call them out on all their other lies." / Twitter
 
Mike Pence mentioned the Green New Deal several times, claiming that it would cost $2 trillion. Kamala Harris did not mention it at all. Instead, she stated more than once that Joe Biden will not outlaw fracking.

Ida Bae Wells on Twitter: "This is a non-partisan tweet: Why is it so hard to state that there will be no jobs or economy if the country is burning down, being flooded, facing perpetual drought and rising sea levels? I truly do not understand the fear of defending aggressive action on climate change." / Twitter

Ida Bae Wells on Twitter: "It seems like Democrats, even now, cannot simply defend their policies and platform but instead try to present themselves as Republican light. It's perplexing." / Twitter

Ida Bae Wells on Twitter: "Like, what's worse for the economy than having tens of thousands of homes and businesses destroyed by fires, every single year." / Twitter


Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "Why is it that Mike Pence doesn’t seem to have to answer any of the questions asked of him in this debate?" / Twitter

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "Pence demanding that Harris answer *his* own personal questions when he won’t even answer the moderator’s is gross, and exemplary of the gender dynamics so many women have to deal with at work." / Twitter
 
lpetrich said:
Mike Pence mentioned the Green New Deal several times, claiming that it would cost $2 trillion. Kamala Harris did not mention it at all. Instead, she stated more than once that Joe Biden will not outlaw fracking.

Ida Bae Wells on Twitter: "This is a non-partisan tweet: Why is it so hard to state that there will be no jobs or economy if the country is burning down, being flooded, facing perpetual drought and rising sea levels? I truly do not understand the fear of defending aggressive action on climate change." / Twitter

Ida Bae Wells on Twitter: "It seems like Democrats, even now, cannot simply defend their policies and platform but instead try to present themselves as Republican light. It's perplexing." / Twitter

Ida Bae Wells on Twitter: "Like, what's worse for the economy than having tens of thousands of homes and businesses destroyed by fires, every single year." / Twitter


Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "Why is it that Mike Pence doesn’t seem to have to answer any of the questions asked of him in this debate?" / Twitter

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "Pence demanding that Harris answer *his* own personal questions when he won’t even answer the moderator’s is gross, and exemplary of the gender dynamics so many women have to deal with at work." / Twitter
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I hate to say it, but it's fact, the majority of Americans prioritize the economy over the environment. And most likely if we transitioned to full green that the economy would be hurt at least in the short term. (This might not be true if the left would embrace safe nuclear power.) Biden is trying to take the safer route: move towards the green economy in a pragmatic fashion and adopt it over time, prioritize the economy, and beat Trump.
 
Elizabeth Warren on Twitter: "Make no mistake: Mike Pence will lie about coronavirus on the debate stage tonight.

He’s done it before, saying we made "remarkable progress" while cases spiraled out of control.

Here’s a reminder of what @KamalaHarris will have to deal with tonight: https://t.co/4wlUMskdZT" / Twitter

Indeed he did. He bragged about the success of his Administration's travel ban for China. Ignoring two ugly facts. It was very porous, and it let the virus arrive in the US from Europe.
But I can tell you having led the white house coronavirus task force that that decision alone by President Trump bought us invaluable time to stand up the greatest national mobilization since World War Two.

And I believe it saved hundreds of thousands of American lives. Because with that time, we were able to reinvent testing. More than 115 million tests had been done to date. We were able to see to the delivery of billions of supplies, so our doctors and nurses had the resources support they needed.
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A big fat lie. I remember last spring and the unwillingness of the Trump Admin to use the Defense Production Act to increase supplies of ventilators and PPE's.

He also stated that "China is to blame for the coronavirus and President Trump is not happy about it", as if that is somehow relevant. If the virus is as much a non-issue as Trump often seems to think it is, then China would not be very guilty of very much.
 
I looked in #KHive in Twitter, and it was very active. :D

Fact-Checking the Vice-Presidential Debate - The New York Times

[TABLE="class: grid"]
[TR]
[TD]Assessment[/TD]
[TD]K Harris[/TD]
[TD]M Pence[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]True[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Mostly True[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Lacks Evidence[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Exaggerated[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Misleading[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]8[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]False[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Total[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]23[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

So in their fact-checked assertions, Kamala Harris was much more truthful than Mike Pence.
 
If that fly laid eggs in Pence's hair he better carry them to full term.
 
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