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The Wall

Elixir

Elixir

Made in America
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English is complicated
I figured that The Wall, being the biggest, most beautiful structure ever constructed by humans in the history of the world, deserved its own thread here. If for no other reason than to give members the chance to give their own estimations of what is going to ultimately happen with The Wall, the #TrumpShutdown, the National Emergency etc..

I'll offer that I believe one of the talking heads on MSNBC nailed it last night: Trump is going to back himself into a "victory". Instead of demanding 2000 miles of a concrete wall, he is already down to "steel slats" (Jaws of Life, anyone?). Eventually he will be demanding 654 miles of some physical barrier. He will get that, and declare victory.
HOW will he get that?
IT ALREADY EXISTS, and existed before he took office. Will that factoid matter in the least to his base? No.

I personally doubt that he'll further risk immediate impeachment by trying to invoke Emergency Powers, but ... maybe he's that stupid.

Anyhow, that's my read and the read of the talking head on MSNBC.
Your ideas?
 
But the orange abomination needs a great and glorious monument to his ego, like the pharaohs of ancient Egypt. It will be an enduring symbol of the bigotry, hatred, ignorance, and greed that destroyed America.

Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk
 
You forget how this shutdown started. So it would be hard for Trump to ignore his "supporters"
 
Well, the Dems have the upper hand right now, due to having just received a massive win in the latest election. All they have to do is not budge and keep sending the GOP spending bills to the Senate. Trump is flailing and looking for a way out of it with a win, but that path doesn't seem to be there at the moment and the Dems are in the mood to hand him a massive loss to set the agenda for the next two years.

Unfortunately, Trump knows this and that his presidency is essentially over if he caves, so there's an impasse. The only variable is the Republicans. Are they going to stick with Trump on this losing issue and, if so, in what numbers?
 
How about this as a bargaining point -- to be made sincerely and immediately made public after it's put forth: 5 billion for a wall in exchange for the prior release of the last ten years of your tax returns.
 
ideologyhunter said:
How about this as a bargaining point -- to be made sincerely and immediately made public after it's put forth: 5 billion for a wall in exchange for the prior release of the last ten years of your tax returns.
Click to expand...

Meh. The House should be able to subpoena his tax returns. How about a DACA deal instead?
Not that he would do it - again, he doesn't want The Wall, he wants The ISSUE.

barbos said:
You forget how this shutdown started. So it would be hard for Trump to ignore his "supporters"
Click to expand...

Hi supporters will believe he "won" when he tells them he won. Facts are irrelevant.
 
I said that some time ago... he already showed a picture of some wall and said it was his wall they were building (it was a repair to an existing wall.. funded in the Bush era)... Just do that again... say he won, show the same pic, and move on.
 
Well, this is the political machine that showed their support for the US military with a picture of reenactors... Of WWII... In German uniforms...

Maybe they can show a photo of the Berlin Wall and claim "The Southern Border is now SECURE!"

He won't declare an emergency. Because they HAVE to have told him that he'll end up in court if he does, trying to prove that it IS an emergency. And courts keep taking away his royal decrees. He cannot stand to lose face in yet another court battle that fails to genuflect.

That's about the only thing keeping him from already declaring it, instead trying to use it as a bluff. But the Dems are prepared to call his bluff.
 
I told Rob Portman to let him rebuild what is there.

He can make it out of the best steel, the strongest steel, like Valyrian steel except better because it's American steel.
Trump can get his picture taken in front of it with a cape and a sword and a comb over.
 
Keith&Co. said:
Well, this is the political machine that showed their support for the US military with a picture of reenactors... Of WWII... In German uniforms...

Maybe they can show a photo of the Berlin Wall and claim "The Southern Border is now SECURE!"
Click to expand...
Or borrow from Hollywood again...

giphy.gif
 
funinspace said:
Keith&Co. said:
Well, this is the political machine that showed their support for the US military with a picture of reenactors... Of WWII... In German uniforms...

Maybe they can show a photo of the Berlin Wall and claim "The Southern Border is now SECURE!"
Click to expand...
Or borrow from Hollywood again...

View attachment 19632
Click to expand...

Hmmm. Looks like a case where some vats of boiling oil would do well. Wonder if Donny has thought about that.
 
OK. I get all of this. Trump is a lying idiot. The Wall is his "baby". I agree.

But walls in China and Britain worked thousands of years ago to keep out some violent would-be "immigrants." Even the wall built by the murderous morose morons running the Soviets worked for some time in keeping the bulk of the would-be Emigrants IN that system. Not completely and not for ever, but the walls worked.

My question is, do you want to control immigration, discourage illegal immigration and give priority to legal immigrants? If so, then how do you propose to do it without a barrier of some kind?

There is an endless supply of humans living in hopeless poverty and danger in many shitty countries down there, south of the southern border of the USA, and most would jump at any chance to get to the USA, and the supply will not dry up, and any hope of improvement in those countries is non-existent given the criminal organizations and government corruption.

So how do youassure fair legal immigration?

I speak with some experience of the matter, given that some years ago I was personally a refugee from the Soviet morons, and more recently lived 18 months in one of the best countries in S America, awaiting through the process of obtaining a Canadian Resident visa for my wife, a citizen of that country.
 
4321lynx said:
OK. I get all of this. Trump is a lying idiot. The Wall is his "baby". I agree.

But walls in China and Britain worked thousands of years ago to keep out some violent would-be "immigrants." Even the wall built by the murderous morose morons running the Soviets worked for some time in keeping the bulk of the would-be Emigrants IN that system. Not completely and not for ever, but the walls worked.

My question is, do you want to control immigration, discourage illegal immigration and give priority to legal immigrants? If so, then how do you propose to do it without a barrier of some kind?

There is an endless supply of humans living in hopeless poverty and danger in many shitty countries down there, south of the southern border of the USA, and most would jump at any chance to get to the USA, and the supply will not dry up, and any hope of improvement in those countries is non-existent given the criminal organizations and government corruption.

So how do youassure fair legal immigration?

I speak with some experience of the matter, given that some years ago I was personally a refugee from the Soviet morons, and more recently lived 18 months in one of the best countries in S America, awaiting through the process of obtaining a Canadian Resident visa for my wife, a citizen of that country.
Click to expand...

I'd suggest (to nobody in particular) that drones, cell towers and other hi-tech tools be financed to the tune of a couple billion, and a few billion more to staffing - asylum court judges, application processing etc..
If there's anything left over, use it for better drug interdiction at ports of entry and to better enable the Coast Guard to deal with the submarines and fast boats that carry most of the contraband into the US.
 
OK An airy-fairy theoretical/bureaucratic "solution."

Illegal immigrants strive to avoid or break through this, you intercept them. Now what?
 
The phrase "build the Wall" is a bit simplistic and was created for the campaign where such slogans tend to work real well. I mean, what really does "yes, we can" mean anyway whe you get down to details?

That said, it is absolutely necessary to greatly improve the physical barrier at the southern border. When women 8 months pregnant and people carrying children can cross it with relative ease, it becomes more than clear that the existing barriers are insufficient.
That doesn't mean a West Bank style wall over the entire length of the border of course, but it might be needful on certain stretches. Elsewhere, a Gaza style fence might suffice.
Note that a better physical barrier is necessary, but hardly sufficient. It is a part of a complete system that does not work without the other parts such as electronic surveillance and actual human patrols. But most important improvement has to be legal. As long as anybody who illegally enters gets to stay here for years just by using the magic word "asylum" it gives a huge incentive for people to breach any physical barrier. So border patrol must be given the power to push back any illegals it catches crossing the border for example. In general, it should be easier to deport illegals, especially but not limited to criminal illegals. Unfortunately, "sanctuary cities" are hell-bent on protecting illegals from deportation even those who have committed other crimes.

The barriers Israel uses would not be very useful either if Israel had to give any Palestinians who breach them the status of "asylum seeker" either.
Asylum is an important tool, but it has become useless because anybody can claim it. It was intended to be an exception, to protect people fleeing real prosecution. Lack of jobs, violent husband, or high crime rate in one's city are not real grounds for asylum.
 
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Derec said:
I mean, what really does "yes, we can" mean anyway whe you get down to details?
Click to expand...
I know exactly what it means—just as suredly as a wink, nod, and smirk given in it’s less finer hours firmly destroys any trust that plausible deniability brings to its myriad of interpretations contrary to the very frame I, in heart of hearts, believe it truly rests.
 
4321lynx said:
My question is, do you want to control immigration, discourage illegal immigration and give priority to legal immigrants? If so, then how do you propose to do it without a barrier of some kind?
Click to expand...
No one is saying NO barrier of any kind. That's Trump's strawman.

But Trump is selling the Wall as the complete solution to all bad immigration.
With illegal border crossings down, and only a small part of the problem, he wants a $20billion patch that isn't a solution.
We can improve the existing barriers for a lot less, and have money left over for several agencies to hire manpower, buy tech, share information, as part of an investment in the existing systems.

Because if we build Ego's Wall, and one cop gets shot by an illegal who flew over the Wall, or walked in with a work visa, or swam ashore, we don't get our wall money back.
 
Actually, i begin to wonder, if Roe v. Wade is overturned, and it devolves to stare, will he tell his voters he's gonna build walls around progressive states to prevent abortion tourism?
 
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