The Wall

[Loren Pechtel]

Are US citizens better off with or without the wall?

A) I’m sure some non US citizens will not benefit if the wall is built—how many I don’t know.
B) I’m sure it will curb some non US citizens from entering—substantively or not I do not know.
C) In terms of optics and image, it may be more damaging or less—depending on perspective.
D) The financial costs may outweigh the build, but then again, it may depend on what factors are considered.

Despite it all, there’s still the question.

Are US citizens better off with or without it?

It's the modern day equivalent to those civil war memorials that really were symbols of oppression.

 

[angelo]

Way to dodge the question. I'll ask it again because it applies equally to the Israeli wall. Was it just the was the wall or was it the guard post towers every fifty yards heavily manned by soldiers with automatic weapons and the placement of land mines?

Probably a little of both. No good building a barrier and not enforcing it with security guards is it?

Well, that's kinda' the point, isn't it? Much of the border is so remote and isolated manning it with guards would be extremely difficult and expensive. Bonespurs says nothing about guards, it's all wall, wall, wall. As a matter of fact, Bonespurs is shifting funding needed by the border patrol to his wall.

That may be so, but how many billions in total is illegal immigration costing the US? It may well cost much less keeping the freeloaders and criminal elements out in the long run by building a barrier and manning it with armed to the teeth military.

 

[angelo]

And Trump isn't promising 60% or 80% effectiveness, either. THE WALL means AN END to drugs, illegal aliens, terrorism, and violent crime committed by illegals.

But he can't point to any wall around the world that's that effective...

Yes, but the arrogance, narcissism, conceit, pride, egoism all feel so good.

You've got to remember that his supporters think this wall works like a magic fence. It doesn't need manned or guarded. Just put it up and all the problems go away for all time.

It's working here.........................https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/a...ngary-is-winning-its-war-on-muslim-immigrants

 

[Harry Bosch]

Well, that's kinda' the point, isn't it? Much of the border is so remote and isolated manning it with guards would be extremely difficult and expensive. Bonespurs says nothing about guards, it's all wall, wall, wall. As a matter of fact, Bonespurs is shifting funding needed by the border patrol to his wall.

That may be so, but how many billions in total is illegal immigration costing the US? It may well cost much less keeping the freeloaders and criminal elements out in the long run by building a barrier and manning it with armed to the teeth military.

Angelo: It's been demonstrated in past posts with you that arguing economics with facts doesn't work. So why go down that path? However, does it bother you to know that Trump plans to steal people's land in Texas to build the law using imminent domain? You believe in private ownership. Do you think that's right to steal someone's land to fulfill a campaign promise?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Well, that's kinda' the point, isn't it? Much of the border is so remote and isolated manning it with guards would be extremely difficult and expensive. Bonespurs says nothing about guards, it's all wall, wall, wall. As a matter of fact, Bonespurs is shifting funding needed by the border patrol to his wall.

That may be so, but how many billions in total is illegal immigration costing the US?

When you include the savings by all the cheap labor, it is probably a benefit.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Well, that's kinda' the point, isn't it? Much of the border is so remote and isolated manning it with guards would be extremely difficult and expensive. Bonespurs says nothing about guards, it's all wall, wall, wall. As a matter of fact, Bonespurs is shifting funding needed by the border patrol to his wall.

That may be so, but how many billions in total is illegal immigration costing the US?

When you include the savings by all the cheap labor, it is probably a benefit.

Well, there are hundreds of studies that show that there is an actual cost to allowing an immigrant to the US. They are slightly more expensive than "native born". However, their children and grandchildren outperform natives.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/econom...s-about-how-immigrants-affect-the-u-s-economy

 

[angelo]

When you include the savings by all the cheap labor, it is probably a benefit.

Well, there are hundreds of studies that show that there is an actual cost to allowing an immigrant to the US. They are slightly more expensive than "native born". However, their children and grandchildren outperform natives.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/econom...s-about-how-immigrants-affect-the-u-s-economy

Using a biased source may work in convincing the naive, but not a rational audience like the people this forum is supposed to represent!

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/pbs-news-hour/

 

[4321lynx]

When you include the savings by all the cheap labor, it is probably a benefit.

Well, there are hundreds of studies that show that there is an actual cost to allowing an immigrant to the US. They are slightly more expensive than "native born". However, their children and grandchildren outperform natives.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/econom...s-about-how-immigrants-affect-the-u-s-economy

Using a biased source may work in convincing the naive, but not a rational audience like the people this forum is supposed to represent!

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/pbs-news-hour/

Both bolded words are almost totally erroneous. --- My supposedly rational conclusion.

 

[ideologyhunter]

(Hopefully this hasn't been thrashed about in the preceding 20 pages.)
I keep hearing on MSNBC that some of the most strident anti-wall voices are coming from U.S. residents who live close to the Mexican border, and their representatives. I'm curious -- what are their main objections? I'm assuming they foresee economic harm to their region -- how is this spelled out in their position?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

When you include the savings by all the cheap labor, it is probably a benefit.

Well, there are hundreds of studies that show that there is an actual cost to allowing an immigrant to the US. They are slightly more expensive than "native born". However, their children and grandchildren outperform natives.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/econom...s-about-how-immigrants-affect-the-u-s-economy

Using a biased source may work in convincing the naive, but not a rational audience like the people this forum is supposed to represent!

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/pbs-news-hour/

Meanwhile on angelo needs glasses:

[FONT=&quot]Factual Reporting: [/FONT][FONT=&quot]HIGH

[/FONT]

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Well, that's kinda' the point, isn't it? Much of the border is so remote and isolated manning it with guards would be extremely difficult and expensive. Bonespurs says nothing about guards, it's all wall, wall, wall. As a matter of fact, Bonespurs is shifting funding needed by the border patrol to his wall.

That may be so, but how many billions in total is illegal immigration costing the US? It may well cost much less keeping the freeloaders and criminal elements out in the long run by building a barrier and manning it with armed to the teeth military.

How can a barrier stop the majority of illegals--that didn't come across the Mexican border in the first place?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

When you include the savings by all the cheap labor, it is probably a benefit.

Well, there are hundreds of studies that show that there is an actual cost to allowing an immigrant to the US. They are slightly more expensive than "native born". However, their children and grandchildren outperform natives.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/econom...s-about-how-immigrants-affect-the-u-s-economy

Using a biased source may work in convincing the naive, but not a rational audience like the people this forum is supposed to represent!

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/pbs-news-hour/

Left-center isn't bad.

 

[ZiprHead]

White House preparing draft national emergency order, has identified $7 billion for wall

CNN Exclusive: The White House is preparing a draft proclamation for President Donald Trump to declare a national emergency along the southern border and has identified more than $7 billion in potential funds for his signature border wall should he go that route, according to internal documents reviewed by CNN.

 

[starwater]

White House preparing draft national emergency order, has identified $7 billion for wall

CNN Exclusive: The White House is preparing a draft proclamation for President Donald Trump to declare a national emergency along the southern border and has identified more than $7 billion in potential funds for his signature border wall should he go that route, according to internal documents reviewed by CNN.

And lawyers all over the country are sharpening their pencils.

 

[marc]

Meanwhile, video of a group getting over a border wall with a ladder

 

[barbos]

Meanwhile, video of a group getting over a border wall with a ladder

Well, argument can be made that the wall slowed them down enough to detect and take a nice video.
Thermographic cameras are fairly expensive, though less expensive than Trump wall.

 

[angelo]

Using a biased source may work in convincing the naive, but not a rational audience like the people this forum is supposed to represent!

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/pbs-news-hour/

Meanwhile on angelo needs glasses:

[FONT="]Factual Reporting: [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#008000][FONT="]HIGH

[/FONT]

Perhaps the glasses you need should have a stronger prescription? ..............................................
Notes: The PBS NewsHour is an American daily evening television news program that is broadcast on the Public Broadcasting Service (PBS), airing seven nights a week on more than 300 of the public broadcaster’s member stations. As the nation’s first hour-long nightly news broadcast, the program is known for its in-depth coverage of issues and current events. PBS produces high quality journalism that is sourced and factual. hey have a left-center bias in reporting. (D. Van Zandt 5/18/2
016)

- - - Updated - - -

Using a biased source may work in convincing the naive, but not a rational audience like the people this forum is supposed to represent!

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/pbs-news-hour/

Left-center isn't bad.

Center, non biased is even better!

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Poor angelo, doesn’t seem to have a clue when it comes to the English language.

 

[Harry Bosch]

(Hopefully this hasn't been thrashed about in the preceding 20 pages.)
I keep hearing on MSNBC that some of the most strident anti-wall voices are coming from U.S. residents who live close to the Mexican border, and their representatives. I'm curious -- what are their main objections? I'm assuming they foresee economic harm to their region -- how is this spelled out in their position?

They are objecting because the republicans are trying to steal their land using imminent domain. Yea if someone stole your land, split it in half, took away your access to the river, you'd be pissed also.

 

[Elixir]

(Hopefully this hasn't been thrashed about in the preceding 20 pages.)
I keep hearing on MSNBC that some of the most strident anti-wall voices are coming from U.S. residents who live close to the Mexican border, and their representatives. I'm curious -- what are their main objections? I'm assuming they foresee economic harm to their region -- how is this spelled out in their position?

They are objecting because the republicans are trying to steal their land using imminent domain. Yea if someone stole your land, split it in half, took away your access to the river, you'd be pissed also.

Yeah, where's Cliven Bundy when you need him?