The Wall

[Loren Pechtel]

Was it just the was the wall or was it the guard post towers every fifty yards heavily manned by soldiers with automatic weapons and the placement of land mines?

While some did make it safely across, it is unclear how many people exactly reached the western part. Some estimates claim that 5,000 East Germans reached West Berlin via the Wall. Men, women and children snuck through checkpoints, hid in vehicles and tunneled under the concrete.

Millions of East Berliners would have fled the socialist utopia of East Germany had that wall not been there. Another example are the various walls placed around and in Israel which reduced terrorist attacks by over 80%.

Way to dodge the question. I'll ask it again because it applies equally to the Israeli wall. Was it just the was the wall or was it the guard post towers every fifty yards heavily manned by soldiers with automatic weapons and the placement of land mines?

Fundamentally, walls do not stop people. Walls slow people, making it much easier for armed defenders to actually stop them.

 

[angelo]

Was it just the was the wall or was it the guard post towers every fifty yards heavily manned by soldiers with automatic weapons and the placement of land mines?

While some did make it safely across, it is unclear how many people exactly reached the western part. Some estimates claim that 5,000 East Germans reached West Berlin via the Wall. Men, women and children snuck through checkpoints, hid in vehicles and tunneled under the concrete.

Millions of East Berliners would have fled the socialist utopia of East Germany had that wall not been there. Another example are the various walls placed around and in Israel which reduced terrorist attacks by over 80%.

Way to dodge the question. I'll ask it again because it applies equally to the Israeli wall. Was it just the was the wall or was it the guard post towers every fifty yards heavily manned by soldiers with automatic weapons and the placement of land mines?

Probably a little of both. No good building a barrier and not enforcing it with security guards is it?

 

[ZiprHead]

Way to dodge the question. I'll ask it again because it applies equally to the Israeli wall. Was it just the was the wall or was it the guard post towers every fifty yards heavily manned by soldiers with automatic weapons and the placement of land mines?

Probably a little of both. No good building a barrier and not enforcing it with security guards is it?

Well, that's kinda' the point, isn't it? Much of the border is so remote and isolated manning it with guards would be extremely difficult and expensive. Bonespurs says nothing about guards, it's all wall, wall, wall. As a matter of fact, Bonespurs is shifting funding needed by the border patrol to his wall.

 

[Keith&Co.]

And Trump isn't promising 60% or 80% effectiveness, either. THE WALL means AN END to drugs, illegal aliens, terrorism, and violent crime committed by illegals.

But he can't point to any wall around the world that's that effective...

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

And Trump isn't promising 60% or 80% effectiveness, either. THE WALL means AN END to drugs, illegal aliens, terrorism, and violent crime committed by illegals.

But he can't point to any wall around the world that's that effective...

Yes, but the arrogance, narcissism, conceit, pride, egoism all feel so good.

You've got to remember that his supporters think this wall works like a magic fence. It doesn't need manned or guarded. Just put it up and all the problems go away for all time.

 

[Keith&Co.]

And if you're not willing to pay 25 billion for the Magic Fence, you MUST be in favor of open borders...

 

[Harry Bosch]

Way to dodge the question. I'll ask it again because it applies equally to the Israeli wall. Was it just the was the wall or was it the guard post towers every fifty yards heavily manned by soldiers with automatic weapons and the placement of land mines?

Probably a little of both. No good building a barrier and not enforcing it with security guards is it?

As a conservative, would it change your mind if you knew that Trump wants the US government to steal people's land to build the wall in Texas?

 

[Elixir]

Just put it up and all the problems go away for all time.

That's exactly correct, as long as one understands that "all the problems" are "all Trump's problems", comprised of the far right fringe, Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh. Bend to their edicts, build that wall, and they will all stop threatening to abandon him and will go back to singing his praises. That's all Cheato wants.
When illegal entries into the US are not impacted in the least, it will be easy to blame the Democrats.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Just put it up and all the problems go away for all time.

That's exactly correct, as long as one understands that "all the problems" are "all Trump's problems", comprised of the far right fringe, Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh. Bend to their edicts, build that wall, and they will all stop threatening to abandon him and will go back to singing his praises. That's all Cheato wants.
When illegal entries into the US are not impacted in the least, it will be easy to blame the Democrats.

The legalization of marijuana needs to be accelerated so that the intellectually challenged have a less harmful way of expressing their need for intelligence.

 

[Keith&Co.]

build that wall, and they will all stop threatening to abandon him and will go back to singing his praises.

Will they, though?
They need the fight as much as anything. It's got to be great for their shows, knowing that the viewership/listeners will be there, supporting The Good Fight. And they've found that by calling Trump a wussy, they can extend any conflict, so they can report on the conflict, viewers on the edge of their seats...

If Trump resolves anything, people will relax, thinking their President is in charge. That can't be good for ratings...

 

[fast]

Are US citizens better off with or without the wall?

A) I’m sure some non US citizens will not benefit if the wall is built—how many I don’t know.
B) I’m sure it will curb some non US citizens from entering—substantively or not I do not know.
C) In terms of optics and image, it may be more damaging or less—depending on perspective.
D) The financial costs may outweigh the build, but then again, it may depend on what factors are considered.

Despite it all, there’s still the question.

Are US citizens better off with or without it?

 

[Elixir]

Are US citizens better off with or without it?

If you ask those who live in the states where it would necessarily be built, the answer is a resounding "NO!". And the closer you get to the the actual border, the more resounding the "NO!"
The only people (AFAICS) who are strongly in favor of it are those who have been whipped into a frenzy of irrational fear by the Orange Menace and his minions. They live nowhere near where the "problem" is supposed to exist, and are therefore unable to see with their own eyes that THERE IS NO CRISIS.

 

[Politesse]

It will also encourage crimes against citizens of minority race; I already see this happening in my racially mixed community and the thing isn't even built yet. Certain factions see the wall as an official endorsement of their contention that non-whites cannot be true citizens. I can think of at least six incidents on campus this year where the wall was mentioned (by the perpetrator) in connection with a hate crime. So one way to answer your question might be: "which Americans?" It might benefit some at the expense of others.

 

[Elixir]

It will also encourage crimes against citizens of minority race; I already see this happening in my racially mixed community and the thing isn't even built yet. They see the wall as an official endorsement of their contention that non-whites cannot be true citizens. I can think of at least six incidents on campus this year where the wall was mentioned (by the perpetrator) in connection with a hate crime.

Good point. And true to form - you're in Chochenyo Territory, thousands of miles from the scene of this imaginary crisis.

So one way to answer your question might be: "which Americans?" It might benefit some at the expense of others.

I don't see ANY benefit to ANYONE, except perhaps lowering the blood pressure of some mentally and emotionally fragile trumpsuckers who are cowering under their beds in fear of Caravans...

 

[starwater]

I think Speaker Pelosi should just negotiate with Ann Coulter and Limbaugh directly and avoid the middle man.

 

[fast]

When lanes are added to a roadway, the responses by those being so-called under-compensated for their property will by human nature tend to factor their loss as having a higher weight while minimizing the good for the community, resulting in a skewed and biased opinion that is anything but disinterested. Those who are objective, however, should find that US citizens are either better off or not despite the concerns of those directly and negatively affected by the land acquisition.

As to Politesse’s response, I really don’t know what to say. I know what I’m thinking, but putting it in words seems rather difficult. Even doing good things and doing it the right way may cause negative actions by those of the mind that they’re not getting their way. People who lived in a segregated society (for instance) may have spoke out against the purported ghastly notion of allowing blacks to drink from the same trough as a white, and when desegregation initiatives were put in place, no excuse that it caused an uproar of a retaliatory nature changed the just nature of its endeavor; hence, if (just if, I say) building the wall is a good thing and thoughts of it being racially motivated is bunk, then a rise in subsequent racially oriented wrongs need to be dealt with accordingly yet separately.

 

[Elixir]

I think Speaker Pelosi should just negotiate with Ann Coulter and Limbaugh directly and avoid the middle man.

Starwater for Speaker! Nothing bad could come of that. At worst, it might shine a light on the perverse throwback desires of the Coulter/Limbaugh faction. At best, the biumverate might order Cheato to sign something...

 

[Keith&Co.]

I think Speaker Pelosi should just negotiate with Ann Coulter and Limbaugh directly and avoid the middle man.

Sadly, they don't want a wall any more than Nancy does. They want an excuse to take a dump on the Dems.

Coming to them would just be like telling the school yard bully that your mom doubled your lunch money.

 

[Elixir]

I think Speaker Pelosi should just negotiate with Ann Coulter and Limbaugh directly and avoid the middle man.

Starwater for Speaker! Nothing bad could come of that. At worst, it might shine a light on the perverse throwback desires of the Coulter/Limbaugh faction. At best, the biumverate might order Cheato to sign something...

Sadly, they don't want a wall any more than Nancy does. They want an excuse to take a dump on the Dems.

Coming to them would just be like telling the school yard bully that your mom doubled your lunch money.

So then, let the light shine on that hideous spectacle!

 

[ideologyhunter]

Border patrols have found elaborate tunnels going under the US/Mex. border. Clearly what we need are Trumprats: trained rats equipped with cameras and mandible-triggered explosives -- kamikaze trumprats. USA!!