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There are No Conscientious Explanations to Disprove the Proof for God and Jesus Being God

Decision Time

You may acknowledge this is considerable evidence and even the best God could righteously and realistically perform. Yet you still resist which is natural of your flesh, for the flesh of your old man is sin of the body and self of the soul. It's independency and disobedience to God is prolific and profuse. It can't be fixed or refined. It's only verdict is death. Even so, God has given you sufficient grace to be able to respond to His saving grace. You're not totally depraved. All you need to do is walk through that door by faith from the old creation into the new creation.

In view of this evidence what are you really risking if you give up and give into Christ by coming to the cross as a helpless sinner to receive the Lord Jesus as Savior? If you are wrong in doing so, you'll just cease to exist like you were going to do anyway. If you are wrong, not giving up your fleshly inordinate control of self to place your trust in Him, nothing is worse than being in Hell eternally separated from God. But if you are right to submit yourself to the Lord, nothing is better than having a relationship with Jesus and eternal blessings of being with God and the Lamb at center of the New City in the New Earth.

If you continue to do what you have always done, you will continue to get what you always got.


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Problems with the Legends Theory

The Resurrection account itself can be traced to the real experiences of the original Apostles even if you disregard the gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and the other epistles of Peter, James, Jude and John. This can be concluded as follows:


  1. Paul recounted the oral tradition he received (1 Cor. 15) from the original Apostles he spent time within just five years after the cross (Gal. 1 & 2), but likely he would have heard about it much sooner than that since he was a persecutor of Christians before being saved;
  2. they set up churches based on the resurrection of Jesus (in Acts and Paul's epistles);
  3. the fact that James, who did not become a believer until after he saw Jesus resurrected, was an Elder of the church of Jerusalem; and
  4. various second generation Apostles reported they knew the original Apostles who testified to them that they had seen Jesus alive from the dead.

If embellishments were added over time so that the ending of the account became the resurrection of Jesus, then the original disciples would have given an account which would not have included the resurrection. But these earliest sources are the best evidence we have, and there are no early sources contradicting their eyewitness testimony.

Paul came to Christ through an experience which he thought he encountered the risen Jesus objectively with others present with him whom also at that moment had seen the light, fell to the ground, heard the voice and may have seen the man, but did not understand what was happening as Paul was talking to Jesus.

Since his conversion was based on his personal eyewitness testimony of the appearance of Jesus along with the testimony of the original Apostles having the same eyewitness testimony whom he spent time with, we can be sure legends theory is is not possible as people don't willingly die for what they believe to be a lie. All of the original Apostles were put to death for their claim except for John who was imprisoned. Paul almost died seven times in the Scriptures before his final martyrdom in the Neronian persecutions around 65 AD.

With the early martyrdom of James the Greater and Stephen, and Jesus telling the disciples they would be put to death for their eyewitness testimony of having seen Him resurrected, precedence was clearly set in their own hearts, they knew full well what was going to happen to them if they continued to preach the gospel of salvation through Jesus Christ being God and died on the cross for the sins of the world, was resurrected the third day, seen the fortieth day ascending to the clouds and gave the Holy Spirit to indwell believers at Pentecost.

Legends theory does not account for the martyrdom of the Apostles in their defense of the resurrection of Jesus. People don't willingly allow themselves to be put to death unless they really believed it, so those original twelve Apostles who spent over three years with Jesus would not set up churches based on the resurrection of Jesus if Jesus did not really rise from the dead. There were no early churches we know of that were not based on the resurrection of Jesus.

If the resurrection occurred they would be in the best position to know it more than anyone. Hence, the original disciples are the best primary source and thus, the key source.

Of all that we can glean from the New Testament, one thing we can be absolutely certain of is the disciples truly believed they had seen Jesus alive from the dead in various group settings. As Gary Habermas puts it, "The disciples had experiences which they believed were literal appearances of the risen Jesus." The appearances were on multiple occasions with different individuals in places.
 
Troy Brooks said:
...we should submit ourselves to this evidence, because if a person doesn't, he or she will surely go to Hell according to Jesus our Creator.
Ah, we come to the root of your argument: Pascal's failed wager.
 
So more copy and paste shit?


Jesus H. Christ this is lame.
 
Well, at least the cut-and-paste stuff is mostly cut and pasted from his own works. It's full of all sorts of shit he's cribbed from other sources and presented as his own.

But he's been banned several times from IIDB, he's probably not long for the new forum, either.
There's no point in arguing with Troy, as has been made rather evident over the last 15 pages.
 
I love the problem with legends theory. Something else.

Think about it. We have earlier sources than for anyone else, we have more sources, we have better corroborated sources, we have enemy attestation sources, non-Christian sources, Biblical sources and extra-Biblical, still other Christian sources. So there is not a lack of evidence. Atheists even admit they can't provide a better proof for resurrection of Jesus.

So the question then is do you give your life to Christ based on the best evidence you could ask for, or do you remain hostile, mindless and belligerent? Hell is a place for you. After all we know Hinduism and Islam are false. Atheism and Agnosticism are false. That just leaves Christianity. Without knowing anything else about the Bible you would know Christianity is true because it has over 2 billion who claim to be followers (definitely accessible and personal) though of course less than 1% are actual Christians the Bible calls the "little flock" (Luke 12.32). The rest go to Hell with the Hindus, Atheists, Agnostics, and Muslims.

I think that's what it all comes down to. God can't produce a better proof. This enables perfect free choice. Clearly you would belong in Hell if you don't receive His forgiveness on the cross shedding His precious blood.
 
I am using an HFT algorithmic response bot keying off the hostility of your responses. You've likely felt your temperature rising.
 
I am using an HFT algorithmic response bot keying off the hostility of your responses.
There's no hostility, Troy.
A lot of pity, sure.
And a deep-seated fear that but for the grace of doubt, i might be where you're at.
But, hey, it's not like anyone's saying you can't just make shit up and call it a basis for a religion. Go for it, Troy! Keep updating the Perfect Proof. Don't let anyone's ability to poke holes in it be take as 'hostility.' They're just trying to make sure you see where perfection could be made more perfect.

And you wouldn't know an algorithm if al-Khwarizmi himself taught one to you.
 
Check out my new blog http://talkfreethought.org/entry.php?33-129-Facts-of-Jesus

Your hostility is unnecessary. Just give your life to Christ and you will be saved as Jesus Himself said, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (John 3.16).

It's the only verse of the Bible you need if you could only have one verse.
 
Troy Brooks said:
Without knowing anything else about the Bible you would know Christianity is true because it has over 2 billion who claim to be followers
No, in fact you wouldn't. But the reality is that we know quite a bit about the bible and what we know is more than sufficient to include Christianity on the list of untrue things.
God can't produce a better proof.
Your god can't produce a better proof? You have a comically inept god.
 
Let's talk about something else. Did you know Rev. 6.12 which occurs right before the Tribulation starts 3 events occur in specific order:

1) Great earthquake (Haiti 2010 320,000 died, 2nd worse anywhere on earth; Japan 2011 4th greatest magnitude anywhere on earth)
2) Unique solar eclipse (Nov. 3, 2013 long H3 Hybrid 4th since Christ)
3) Unique red blood moon (2014/15 won't happen again till 2582/83).

A little math says greatest earthquake in history year over so if we only go back to Christ that's about 1 in 2000. The solar eclipse is say 3/2000. And the Tetrad is 7/2000. So 1/2000 x 3/2000 x 7/2000 = 1 in 381 million.

And I should say that also works well with the sign of the Son of Man (Matt. 24.30) being asteroid Apophis which will be within satellite distance range. Apparently if it were to hit earth which it won't but if it did such an asteroid of this size about 3 football fields in length hits earth once every 80,000 years.

Can you think of what the sign of the Son of Man would be if not Apophis?
 
So you don't go to Hell.
Once more, Troy, I don't believe in any of the gods of mankind.
I don't believe there are any sins.
I don't believe there's an eternal punishment for non-existent sins against gods that don't exist.
Your threat has been weighed, measured, tagged and returned to the wild in the hopes that it will find shelter, food and make a burrow in an attempt to attract a mate.

Because it sure as shit isn't a compelling reason for me to adopt your bullcrap.

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Let's talk about something else. Did you know Rev. 6.12 which occurs right before the Tribulation starts 3 events occur in specific order:

1) Great earthquake (Haiti 2010 320,000 died, 2nd worse anywhere on earth; Japan 2011 4th greatest magnitude anywhere on earth)
2) Unique solar eclipse (Nov. 3, 2013 long H3 Hybrid 4th since Christ)
3) Unique red blood moon (2014/15 won't happen again till 2582/83).

A little math says greatest earthquake in history year over so if we only go back to Christ that's about 1 in 2000. The solar eclipse is say 3/2000. And the Tetrad is 7/2000. So 1/2000 x 3/2000 x 7/2000 = 1 in 381 million.
Now, if only that could have been used BEFORE the earthquake, to save lives.
You worship a being that would let people die just to prove that he had foreknowledge and let them die anyway?
 
Your god can't produce a better proof?
You and God have in common you can't produce a better proof? Do you know why you can't produce a better proof than this proof? Because it is God's very best proof. It is impossible to make it better because it is perfect.

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So you don't go to Hell.
Once more, Troy, I don't believe in any of the gods of mankind.
I don't believe there are any sins.
I don't believe there's an eternal punishment for non-existent sins against gods that don't exist.
Your threat has been weighed, measured, tagged and returned to the wild in the hopes that it will find shelter, food and make a burrow in an attempt to attract a mate.

Because it sure as shit isn't a compelling reason for me to adopt your bullcrap.

- - - Updated - - -

Let's talk about something else. Did you know Rev. 6.12 which occurs right before the Tribulation starts 3 events occur in specific order:

1) Great earthquake (Haiti 2010 320,000 died, 2nd worse anywhere on earth; Japan 2011 4th greatest magnitude anywhere on earth)
2) Unique solar eclipse (Nov. 3, 2013 long H3 Hybrid 4th since Christ)
3) Unique red blood moon (2014/15 won't happen again till 2582/83).

A little math says greatest earthquake in history year over so if we only go back to Christ that's about 1 in 2000. The solar eclipse is say 3/2000. And the Tetrad is 7/2000. So 1/2000 x 3/2000 x 7/2000 = 1 in 381 million.
Now, if only that could have been used BEFORE the earthquake, to save lives.
You worship a being that would let people die just to prove that he had foreknowledge and let them die anyway?

There is certainly a judgment on Haiti and atheist Japan. According to Wiki Haiti is consider significant in the drug trade.
 
Your god can't produce a better proof?
You and God have in common you can't produce a better proof? Do you know why you can't produce a better proof than this proof? Because it is God's very best proof. It is impossible to make it better because it is perfect.
Ford's got a point.
It could have been printed in LARGE RED LETTERS. Then it's really be kick-ass.

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There is certainly a judgment on Haiti and atheist Japan.
And god would rather use their deaths for his glory than, i dunno, maybe show them that he's real and they shouldn't be atheists?
What a fucktard.

Seriously. It's sad that you've been driven to a state where you can be comfortable with people of your own species dying in things your god could have avoided, much less your belief that some people deserve hell.
 
And god would rather use their deaths for his glory than
Clearly God is making a statement in saying atheism is evil so they are being cornered in nuclear fallout. Too many atheists on the planet is not a good thing so they get nuclear fallout like in Russia there is this place where people are not allowed to procreate because there is so much radiation still from exploding nuclear bombs. It shows how evil their atheist governments are to do this to their people.

It sad that God has to use nature to punish evil when that evil refuses to repent. That evil keeps making the world a worse place to live. Hence God uses nature to limit their expansion.

Another good example of that atheists have the highest suicide rates. They like killing themselves and killing other people: Hitler killed 30 million, Stalin 40 million and Mao 60 million. Of course when the atheist sees those numbers he says "Way to go!" Or find some positive spin on it. How evil is that! The atheist has no moral compass that's why he feels nothing when this many die at the hands of atheist leaders.
 
I'm increasingly feeling like this place is a cesspool of degenerates. I better get out. I can't help somehow feel infected by the noxious and putrid aura this place gives off.

 
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