They All Look Alike

[Crazy Eddie]

The cop asked his name and he provided a reasonable answer to such a question. If the cop was concerned about identifying him, which he wasn't, he would have asked for ID as he claimed he did 3 4 times.

What action exactly do you think violated his probation?

The issue is how he answered--it sounded false.

... to which his very NEXT question should be "Do you have any identification?"

But that's not what happened, was it? He skipped the request for identification and went straight to an arrest; he had already judged in his mind that Patrick was guilty, so "that sounds false" was all the reason he needed to leap to "Well, he lied to me, so I'm gonna arrest him because he's a criminal scumbag."

And this is the problem with American police officers: he took ONE LOOK at Patrick and his mind labeled him as "criminal." Police officers have come to believe that shooting and killing criminals is part of their job; it's what they're trained to do, it's what society expects them to do, it's the one thing they spend the MOST amount of time practicing, and for many cops it is the ONLY part of the job they're actually good at.

You don't see this as a problem because you ALSO judge Patrick to be a criminal for whatever reason. If he had been killed, you would bend 20 different ways to justify it.

 

[Deepak]

The issue is how he answered--it sounded false.

... to which his very NEXT question should be "Do you have any identification?"

But that's not what happened, was it? He skipped the request for identification and went straight to an arrest; he had already judged in his mind that Patrick was guilty, so "that sounds false" was all the reason he needed to leap to "Well, he lied to me, so I'm gonna arrest him because he's a criminal scumbag."

And this is the problem with American police officers: he took ONE LOOK at Patrick and his mind labeled him as "criminal." Police officers have come to believe that shooting and killing criminals is part of their job; it's what they're trained to do, it's what society expects them to do, it's the one thing they spend the MOST amount of time practicing, and for many cops it is the ONLY part of the job they're actually good at.

You don't see this as a problem because you ALSO judge Patrick to be a criminal for whatever reason. If he had been killed, you would bend 20 different ways to justify it.

And his actual charge, investigation, was the one thing he didn't do.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The issue is how he answered--it sounded false.

... to which his very NEXT question should be "Do you have any identification?"

But that's not what happened, was it? He skipped the request for identification and went straight to an arrest; he had already judged in his mind that Patrick was guilty, so "that sounds false" was all the reason he needed to leap to "Well, he lied to me, so I'm gonna arrest him because he's a criminal scumbag."

Went straight to wanting him out of the car. That's not the same thing as arresting him.

 

[Deepak]

... to which his very NEXT question should be "Do you have any identification?"

But that's not what happened, was it? He skipped the request for identification and went straight to an arrest; he had already judged in his mind that Patrick was guilty, so "that sounds false" was all the reason he needed to leap to "Well, he lied to me, so I'm gonna arrest him because he's a criminal scumbag."

Went straight to wanting him out of the car. That's not the same thing as arresting him.

Are we watching the same video? Mumford got out of the car and they ordered him to put his hands on the car immediately. They had a cooperative person who they could have asked for ID, but instead they escalated without any show of hostility from Mumford.

 

[Playball40]

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/07/watch-cops-tase-black-man-mistaken-for-suspect-then-arrest-him-for-asking-questions/

It's not a matter of all looking alike, but rather that old pictures don't always match what someone looks like now.

And given his response when asked his name isn't it reasonable for the cops to think he's their man and giving a false name? At that point it's reasonable for the cops to want him out of his car before continuing things--less opportunity to grab a weapon if it goes wrong. He's resisting, he gets tased.

And I wouldn't be one bit surprised if his actions violated his probation.

You're kidding right?

 

[Playball40]

The cop asked his name and he provided a reasonable answer to such a question. If the cop was concerned about identifying him, which he wasn't, he would have asked for ID as he claimed he did 3 4 times.

What action exactly do you think violated his probation?

The issue is how he answered--it sounded false.

And IF they believed it "sounded false" they could have said 'may I please see some ID'!

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The cop asked his name and he provided a reasonable answer to such a question. If the cop was concerned about identifying him, which he wasn't, he would have asked for ID as he claimed he did 3 4 times.

What action exactly do you think violated his probation?

The issue is how he answered--it sounded false.

FFS!

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The issue is how he answered--it sounded false.

And IF they believed it "sounded false" they could have said 'may I please see some ID'!

At that point they suspect he's a bad guy--it's quite reasonable to want to separate him from any possible hidden weapons in the car.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

And IF they believed it "sounded false" they could have said 'may I please see some ID'!

At that point they suspect he's a bad guy--it's quite reasonable to want to separate him from any possible hidden weapons in the car.

Yes, EXACTLY. They suspect, for no reason at all, that he's a "bad guy." And what do you do with bad guys? You arrest them, you search them, you cuff them, and you make them comply with you.

But they had no reason to suspect he did anything wrong at all. They had NO IDEA who he was and didn't bother to identify him. They assumed he was guilty of SOMETHING and therefore they treated him like a criminal.

The difference between you and everyone else, LP, is that you don't think there's anything wrong with that. You believe it's reasonable to assume that a black person who is not completely deferential and respectful to a cop is probably a troublemaker and a criminal. If he had, at this point, pulled his gun and shot Patrick in the chest, you would be telling us that Patrick should have just complied and that he's really a criminal anyway ("look at that rap sheet!") and we'd probabably have Derec quoting Stormfront websites about his "baby mammas" and his drug habits.

SSDD.

 

[RavenSky]

And IF they believed it "sounded false" they could have said 'may I please see some ID'!

At that point they suspect he's a bad guy--it's quite reasonable to want to separate him from any possible hidden weapons in the car.

Do tell, Loren... WHY do "they suspect he's a bad guy"

ETA: actually, Loren, don't bother. Eddie already nailed your typical response perfectly.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

At that point they suspect he's a bad guy--it's quite reasonable to want to separate him from any possible hidden weapons in the car.

Yes, EXACTLY. They suspect, for no reason at all, that he's a "bad guy." And what do you do with bad guys? You arrest them, you search them, you cuff them, and you make them comply with you.

But they had no reason to suspect he did anything wrong at all. They had NO IDEA who he was and didn't bother to identify him. They assumed he was guilty of SOMETHING and therefore they treated him like a criminal.

The difference between you and everyone else, LP, is that you don't think there's anything wrong with that. You believe it's reasonable to assume that a black person who is not completely deferential and respectful to a cop is probably a troublemaker and a criminal. If he had, at this point, pulled his gun and shot Patrick in the chest, you would be telling us that Patrick should have just complied and that he's really a criminal anyway ("look at that rap sheet!") and we'd probabably have Derec quoting Stormfront websites about his "baby mammas" and his drug habits.

SSDD.

The basic difference is I don't live in a fantasyland where there are perfect solutions if only the people in power would look hard enough for them.

- - - Updated - - -

At that point they suspect he's a bad guy--it's quite reasonable to want to separate him from any possible hidden weapons in the car.

Do tell, Loren... WHY do "they suspect he's a bad guy"

ETA: actually, Loren, don't bother. Eddie already nailed your typical response perfectly.

Because it sounded like he gave a made-up name.

 

[laughing dog]

[
The basic difference is I don't live in a fantasyland where there are perfect solutions if only the people in power would look hard enough for them.

No, your fantasy land people (especially people of color) are automatically assumed to be "thugs" and treated like "thugs" unless there is overwhelming evidence (like if they are white) to the contrary.

 

[RavenSky]

At that point they suspect he's a bad guy--it's quite reasonable to want to separate him from any possible hidden weapons in the car.

Do tell, Loren... WHY do "they suspect he's a bad guy"

ETA: actually, Loren, don't bother. Eddie already nailed your typical response perfectly.

Because it sounded like he gave a made-up name.

That is not a reason. They had no actual factual reason to suspect he gave a false name, and an extremely simple easy way to verify his name. Try again.

WHY did "they suspect he's a bad guy"

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I'd say the guy should have gone for his ID, but we know that would have been a bad idea. And I'm not trying to make a joke. It is getting that fucking bad.

Yes, EXACTLY. They suspect, for no reason at all, that he's a "bad guy." And what do you do with bad guys? You arrest them, you search them, you cuff them, and you make them comply with you.

But they had no reason to suspect he did anything wrong at all. They had NO IDEA who he was and didn't bother to identify him. They assumed he was guilty of SOMETHING and therefore they treated him like a criminal.

The difference between you and everyone else, LP, is that you don't think there's anything wrong with that. You believe it's reasonable to assume that a black person who is not completely deferential and respectful to a cop is probably a troublemaker and a criminal. If he had, at this point, pulled his gun and shot Patrick in the chest, you would be telling us that Patrick should have just complied and that he's really a criminal anyway ("look at that rap sheet!") and we'd probabably have Derec quoting Stormfront websites about his "baby mammas" and his drug habits.

SSDD.

The basic difference is I don't live in a fantasyland where there are perfect solutions if only the people in power would look hard enough for them.

- - - Updated - - -

At that point they suspect he's a bad guy--it's quite reasonable to want to separate him from any possible hidden weapons in the car.

Do tell, Loren... WHY do "they suspect he's a bad guy"

ETA: actually, Loren, don't bother. Eddie already nailed your typical response perfectly.

Because it sounded like he gave a made-up name.

So when asked his name, he said "Cookie Monster"?

 

[Malintent]

The video released by the defense attorney was edited and omits significant portions wherein a relative asks the individual to be cooperative. The relative on the video also suggests the arrestee is similar in appearance to the wanted person, who purportedly lived at that residence. The edited video also omits other calm interactions the officers had with relatives and the arrestee.

the OP is dishonest. The suspect was tazed for resisting arrest. By law (varies by state) one is not required to carry ID around with them just to prove your identity. If you are operating a vehicle, you DO. If a police officer asks for it, and you don't have it, or refuse to show it, you are breaking the law. If you act like a gangster, instead of a participating and productive member of society, then you get treated like a gangster.

 

[Deepak]

The video released by the defense attorney was edited and omits significant portions wherein a relative asks the individual to be cooperative. The relative on the video also suggests the arrestee is similar in appearance to the wanted person, who purportedly lived at that residence. The edited video also omits other calm interactions the officers had with relatives and the arrestee.

the OP is dishonest. The suspect was tazed for resisting arrest. By law (varies by state) one is not required to carry ID around with them just to prove your identity. If you are operating a vehicle, you DO. If a police officer asks for it, and you don't have it, or refuse to show it, you are breaking the law. If you act like a gangster, instead of a participating and productive member of society, then you get treated like a gangster.

Sitting in the passenger side of a car with a door open and on private property is 'operating a vehicle'?

 

[Playball40]

Yes, EXACTLY. They suspect, for no reason at all, that he's a "bad guy." And what do you do with bad guys? You arrest them, you search them, you cuff them, and you make them comply with you.

But they had no reason to suspect he did anything wrong at all. They had NO IDEA who he was and didn't bother to identify him. They assumed he was guilty of SOMETHING and therefore they treated him like a criminal.

The difference between you and everyone else, LP, is that you don't think there's anything wrong with that. You believe it's reasonable to assume that a black person who is not completely deferential and respectful to a cop is probably a troublemaker and a criminal. If he had, at this point, pulled his gun and shot Patrick in the chest, you would be telling us that Patrick should have just complied and that he's really a criminal anyway ("look at that rap sheet!") and we'd probabably have Derec quoting Stormfront websites about his "baby mammas" and his drug habits.

SSDD.

The basic difference is I don't live in a fantasyland where there are perfect solutions if only the people in power would look hard enough for them.

- - - Updated - - -

At that point they suspect he's a bad guy--it's quite reasonable to want to separate him from any possible hidden weapons in the car.

Do tell, Loren... WHY do "they suspect he's a bad guy"

ETA: actually, Loren, don't bother. Eddie already nailed your typical response perfectly.

Because it sounded like he gave a made-up name.

Again, why then not ask for ID? He said "Patrick" like it was a question. I get that. So, just say "may I see some ID Patrick?" Boom. No confrontation, no tasers, no arrest.

 

[Playball40]

[ENT][/ENT]

At that point they suspect he's a bad guy--it's quite reasonable to want to separate him from any possible hidden weapons in the car.

Do tell, Loren... WHY do "they suspect he's a bad guy"

ETA: actually, Loren, don't bother. Eddie already nailed your typical response perfectly.

Because it sounded like he gave a made-up name.

That is not a reason. They had no actual factual reason to suspect he gave a false name, and an extremely simple easy way to verify his name. Try again.

WHY did "they suspect he's a bad guy"

I kind of disagree here. He said "Patrick" with a raised inflection at the end. Like it was a question. My kids do this when they think its what I 'want to hear'. BUT, all they had to do was say "many I see some ID Patrick". Done. Or if they wanted to be jerk facie they could have said "Is that a question Patrick?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The video released by the defense attorney was edited and omits significant portions wherein a relative asks the individual to be cooperative. The relative on the video also suggests the arrestee is similar in appearance to the wanted person, who purportedly lived at that residence. The edited video also omits other calm interactions the officers had with relatives and the arrestee.

the OP is dishonest. The suspect was tazed for resisting arrest. By law (varies by state) one is not required to carry ID around with them just to prove your identity. If you are operating a vehicle, you DO. If a police officer asks for it, and you don't have it, or refuse to show it, you are breaking the law.

So we are arresting people for driving without a license these days?

If you act like a gangster, instead of a participating and productive member of society, then you get treated like a gangster.

You seem to be getting your terms "gangster" and "jerk" mixed up. For instance when gangsters in Chicago wanted to deal with a problem, it typically involved guns, not words. Or if I went into gang territory, I would have certain concerns and fears, however, I wouldn't be worried about sass. When a jerk is dealing with someone, it typically involves words, not guns.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Again, why then not ask for ID? He said "Patrick" like it was a question. I get that. So, just say "may I see some ID Patrick?" Boom. No confrontation, no tasers, no arrest.

That isn't how the real world acts Playball40. If an officer even slightly observes a quantum of sass, it is time to light that person up like it is Christmas. It is the only way to prevent the world from being victimized by sass.