This week in trans: extra prison time possible for misgendering

[none]

Deliberately misgendering people could be considered bullying or harassment. In a prison setting, it would be difficult to escape such harassment. I understand the reasoning behind such rules.

I wonder if there is an issue in male prisons with transgendered men being harassed, etc. and what the policies there are. Anybody know?

Exactly. Deliberate misgendering is a form of harassment. And in prison you can't just walk away from your harasser.

I'm sorry but that's insane. No, it isn't.

The Doctor is in?

 

[JohnG]

Deliberately misgendering people could be considered bullying or harassment. In a prison setting, it would be difficult to escape such harassment. I understand the reasoning behind such rules.

I wonder if there is an issue in male prisons with transgendered men being harassed, etc. and what the policies there are. Anybody know?

Exactly. Deliberate misgendering is a form of harassment. And in prison you can't just walk away from your harasser.

I'm sorry but that's insane. No, it isn't.

It says right in the article that they have an equal rights law since 2010 - they aren't allowed to harass people for religion, race, gender

The anti trans people just cherry pick this garbage out of broader laws.

They want a carve out so they can harass trans people.

 

[Bomb#20]

https://insidetime.org/women-face-punishment-for-using-wrong-pronouns/

Women prisoners who call transgender prisoners by the wrong pronoun could be punished with time added on to their sentence, the Government has warned.

Deliberately misgendering people could be considered bullying or harassment. In a prison setting, it would be difficult to escape such harassment. I understand the reasoning behind such rules.

Exactly. Deliberate misgendering is a form of harassment. And in prison you can't just walk away from your harasser.

I'm sorry but that's insane. No, it isn't.

[grammarian]
English does not have distinct second-person pronouns for different sexes. English has distinct third-person pronouns for different sexes.
[/grammarian]

It says right in the article that they have an equal rights law since 2010 - they aren't allowed to harass people for religion, race, gender

The anti trans people just cherry pick this garbage out of broader laws.

They want a carve out so they can harass trans people.

Harassing someone implies interacting with him or her, which generally involves saying "you", not "he" or "she". If you call people "he" or "she" to their faces they'll just be confused and imagine you're abusing somebody else, not them, which will kind of defeat the purpose of harassing them.

People use "he" and "she" pronouns when they're talking about a third party. You mentioned religion. Well then, is it your contention that the 2010 equal rights law prohibits one Christian prisoner telling another Christian prisoner that Islam is a false religion? Is it your contention that that's "harassing a Muslim"?

DrZoidberg is correct. Claiming it's harassment to misgender someone with pronouns is insane.

 

[JohnG]

Harassing someone implies interacting with him or her, which generally involves saying "you", not "he" or "she". If you call people "he" or "she" to their faces they'll just be confused and imagine you're abusing somebody else, not them, which will kind of defeat the purpose of harassing them.

This is an Abbot and Costello routine, not a rebuttal. Be serious.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Harassing someone implies interacting with him or her, which generally involves saying "you", not "he" or "she".

Certainly wasn't implied at the high school i attended.
They can harrass in third person quite easily, they just need a moment and volume.
"Let baby have his bottle."
"Don't criticize Keith's fishing skills, he's a master baiter with a tiny little worm.."
"Ask Cindy if she knows any virgins we can call."
"Oh, see? His boyfriend is coming to his rescue."

Not even a stretch.

Doesn't take much imagination to think of something like, "Whoops! Guess it's a Men's Room, now!"
"Ask Cindy, she used to be an altar boy."
"Let Keith do it, he was a Brownie, once."

 

[laughing dog]

Deliberately misgendering people could be considered bullying or harassment. In a prison setting, it would be difficult to escape such harassment. I understand the reasoning behind such rules.

Exactly. Deliberate misgendering is a form of harassment. And in prison you can't just walk away from your harasser.

I'm sorry but that's insane. No, it isn't.

[grammarian]
English does not have distinct second-person pronouns for different sexes. English has distinct third-person pronouns for different sexes.
[/grammarian]

It says right in the article that they have an equal rights law since 2010 - they aren't allowed to harass people for religion, race, gender

The anti trans people just cherry pick this garbage out of broader laws.

They want a carve out so they can harass trans people.

Harassing someone implies interacting with him or her, which generally involves saying "you", not "he" or "she". If you call people "he" or "she" to their faces they'll just be confused and imagine you're abusing somebody else, not them, which will kind of defeat the purpose of harassing them.

People use "he" and "she" pronouns when they're talking about a third party. You mentioned religion. Well then, is it your contention that the 2010 equal rights law prohibits one Christian prisoner telling another Christian prisoner that Islam is a false religion? Is it your contention that that's "harassing a Muslim"?

DrZoidberg is correct. Claiming it's harassment to misgender someone with pronouns is insane.

Calling someone by something they have indicated they don't wish to be called can be insulting. Persisting in doing so is harassment. Duh.

 

[Bomb#20]

"Let baby have his bottle." ... "Oh, see? His boyfriend is coming to his rescue."

Those all look like interactions to me. Is there any indication that Justice Minister Lord Wolfson limited his punishment warning to uses of the unwanted pronoun in the referenced prisoner's presence?

 

[Keith&Co.]

"Let baby have his bottle." ... "Oh, see? His boyfriend is coming to his rescue."

Those all look like interactions to me. Is there any indication that Justice Minister Lord Wolfson limited his punishment warning to uses of the unwanted pronoun in the referenced prisoner's presence?

You were saying interactions were 2nd person, which has no gender pronouns, so harrassment is unpossible. I offered third person harrassment examples, which you acknowledge as interaction. Now you tangent? Meh.

 

[DrZoidberg]

I'm sorry but that's insane. No, it isn't.

It says right in the article that they have an equal rights law since 2010 - they aren't allowed to harass people for religion, race, gender

The anti trans people just cherry pick this garbage out of broader laws.

They want a carve out so they can harass trans people.

Misgendering someone isn't harassment. So dumb.

They're inmates. Spicy language is to be expected. Methinks someone is speaking from quite a lofty perch on this.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Exactly. Deliberate misgendering is a form of harassment. And in prison you can't just walk away from your harasser.

I'm sorry but that's insane. No, it isn't.

[grammarian]
English does not have distinct second-person pronouns for different sexes. English has distinct third-person pronouns for different sexes.
[/grammarian]

It says right in the article that they have an equal rights law since 2010 - they aren't allowed to harass people for religion, race, gender

The anti trans people just cherry pick this garbage out of broader laws.

They want a carve out so they can harass trans people.

Harassing someone implies interacting with him or her, which generally involves saying "you", not "he" or "she". If you call people "he" or "she" to their faces they'll just be confused and imagine you're abusing somebody else, not them, which will kind of defeat the purpose of harassing them.

People use "he" and "she" pronouns when they're talking about a third party. You mentioned religion. Well then, is it your contention that the 2010 equal rights law prohibits one Christian prisoner telling another Christian prisoner that Islam is a false religion? Is it your contention that that's "harassing a Muslim"?

DrZoidberg is correct. Claiming it's harassment to misgender someone with pronouns is insane.

Calling someone by something they have indicated they don't wish to be called can be insulting. Persisting in doing so is harassment. Duh.

Someone will need thicker skin than that to survive in prison. Prison is full of people who have done really bad things. Really bad. Much worse than harassment.

 

[WAB]

DZ is right, and Emily is right, and Bomb#20 is right.

First of all, to send a person with male genitals to a woman's prison is idiotic in the first place; and, if a woman misgenders a person with male genitals in a prison, especially a prison cell they share with that person, then the person with male genitals has it coming - whether it is harassment or no.

This conversation just demonstrates the lengths of sheer idiocy some people will go to to maintain this politically-correct insanity.

Edit for clarity:

By the way, I am a straight male (person with male "junk") - for various persons who may not know it.

 

[thebeave]

DZ is right, and Emily is right, and Bomb#20 is right.

First of all, to send a person with male genitals to a woman's prison is idiotic in the first place; and, if a woman misgenders a person with male genitals in a prison, especially a prison cell they share with that person, then the person with male genitals has it coming - whether it is harassment or no.

This conversation just demonstrates the lengths of sheer idiocy some people will go to to maintain this politically-correct insanity.

Edit for clarity:

By the way, I am a straight male (person with male "junk") - for various persons who may not know it.

Well said. This is part of the reason I get a good chuckle when I see the left with their "We believe in science!!" chants as a way to distinguish themselves from the right. Both ends of the political spectrum have their anti-science positions and lunatics, but somehow they don't recognize it in themselves.

 

[WAB]

DZ is right, and Emily is right, and Bomb#20 is right.

First of all, to send a person with male genitals to a woman's prison is idiotic in the first place; and, if a woman misgenders a person with male genitals in a prison, especially a prison cell they share with that person, then the person with male genitals has it coming - whether it is harassment or no.

This conversation just demonstrates the lengths of sheer idiocy some people will go to to maintain this politically-correct insanity.

Edit for clarity:

By the way, I am a straight male (person with male "junk") - for various persons who may not know it.

Well said. This is part of the reason I get a good chuckle when I see the left with their "We believe in science!!" chants as a way to distinguish themselves from the right. Both ends of the political spectrum have their anti-science positions and lunatics, but somehow they don't recognize it in themselves.

Note to self* - Do not put thebeave on ignore! I have seven (7) on there already, so I don't have to get entangled with their silly, contradictory nonsense.

They will come off ignore eventually, but not for a while, so that I can remain in blissfully ignorant la-la-la-la land for at least a few more days. Hopefully by that time I'll have enough sand and wax in my ears to construct some kind of a nifty new bomb - provided I can find some saltpeter and a good enough tube. Anyone seen Captain Kirk?

Come along, Concord, there is much to do...

 

[thebeave]

DZ is right, and Emily is right, and Bomb#20 is right.

First of all, to send a person with male genitals to a woman's prison is idiotic in the first place; and, if a woman misgenders a person with male genitals in a prison, especially a prison cell they share with that person, then the person with male genitals has it coming - whether it is harassment or no.

This conversation just demonstrates the lengths of sheer idiocy some people will go to to maintain this politically-correct insanity.

Edit for clarity:

By the way, I am a straight male (person with male "junk") - for various persons who may not know it.

Well said. This is part of the reason I get a good chuckle when I see the left with their "We believe in science!!" chants as a way to distinguish themselves from the right. Both ends of the political spectrum have their anti-science positions and lunatics, but somehow they don't recognize it in themselves.

Note to self* - Do not put thebeave on ignore! I have seven (7) on there already, so I don't have to get entangled with their silly, contradictory nonsense.

They will come off ignore eventually, but not for a while, so that I can remain in blissfully ignorant la-la-la-la land for at least a few more days. Hopefully by that time I'll have enough sand and wax in my ears to construct some kind of a nifty new bomb - provided I can find some saltpeter and a good enough tube. Anyone seen Captain Kirk?

Come along, Concord, there is much to do...

Heh. Talk about going off on a tangent. We went from discussion of a trans issue to the fight between Kirk and the Gorn in about 3 sentences. I'm thinking...what just happened here?!

 

[laughing dog]

I'm sorry but that's insane. No, it isn't.

[grammarian]
English does not have distinct second-person pronouns for different sexes. English has distinct third-person pronouns for different sexes.
[/grammarian]

It says right in the article that they have an equal rights law since 2010 - they aren't allowed to harass people for religion, race, gender

The anti trans people just cherry pick this garbage out of broader laws.

They want a carve out so they can harass trans people.

Harassing someone implies interacting with him or her, which generally involves saying "you", not "he" or "she". If you call people "he" or "she" to their faces they'll just be confused and imagine you're abusing somebody else, not them, which will kind of defeat the purpose of harassing them.

People use "he" and "she" pronouns when they're talking about a third party. You mentioned religion. Well then, is it your contention that the 2010 equal rights law prohibits one Christian prisoner telling another Christian prisoner that Islam is a false religion? Is it your contention that that's "harassing a Muslim"?

DrZoidberg is correct. Claiming it's harassment to misgender someone with pronouns is insane.

Calling someone by something they have indicated they don't wish to be called can be insulting. Persisting in doing so is harassment. Duh.

Someone will need thicker skin than that to survive in prison. Prison is full of people who have done really bad things. Really bad. Much worse than harassment.

What people will need in prison is irrelevant.People in prison tend to have less control and tend to be less civilized. The prison rule is not about protecting someone - it is about maintaining order and reducing possible violent problems.

 

[laughing dog]

DZ is right, and Emily is right, and Bomb#20 is right.

First of all, to send a person with male genitals to a woman's prison is idiotic in the first place; and, if a woman misgenders a person with male genitals in a prison, especially a prison cell they share with that person, then the person with male genitals has it coming - whether it is harassment or no.

Transgendered women need not male genitilia. And, do you have any evidence that transgendered women necessarily share cells with cis-women?

My understanding is that transgendered women were placed in women's prisons because they were targets for violence in men's prisons and too hard to protect there. IMO, a better solution is to have a transgendered women section in a woman's prison than to have them mixed in with the general population if there are going to be problems.

This conversation just demonstrates the lengths of sheer idiocy some people will go to to maintain this politically-correct insanity their bigoted fears.

FIFY

 

[thebeave]

DZ is right, and Emily is right, and Bomb#20 is right.

First of all, to send a person with male genitals to a woman's prison is idiotic in the first place; and, if a woman misgenders a person with male genitals in a prison, especially a prison cell they share with that person, then the person with male genitals has it coming - whether it is harassment or no.

Transgendered women need not male genitilia. And, do you have any evidence that transgendered women necessarily share cells with cis-women?

My understanding is that transgendered women were placed in women's prisons because they were targets for violence in men's prisons and too hard to protect there. IMO, a better solution is to have a transgendered women section in a woman's prison than to have them mixed in with the general population if there are going to be problems.

This conversation just demonstrates the lengths of sheer idiocy some people will go to to maintain this politically-correct insanity their bigoted fears.

FIFY

I think the idea of a transgendered section in a prison is in theory a good idea. Might be a little difficult though with an existing prison. Will they have their own exercise yard, cafeteria, rec room? What about prison jobs? All that may be a tall order if there are only a handful or less trans prisoners, not to mention the social isolation aspects. That could be more damaging overall than the risk of violence. The other point is that there are many prisoners who are at high risk of violence from other prisoners. Pedophiles, wife beaters/killers, snitches, celebrity prisoners (Jeffrey Dahmer, anyone). Shouldn't they get their own section too?

 

[JohnG]

I wonder if the "binary only" crowd on here asks to look down the front of people's pants if they are not sure what pronoun to use.

Trans people don't become trans just for kicks. As this thread is an example, they are hated by a wide swath of society, and very often the target of violence. They exist in all cultures and throughout history.

 

[Trausti]

I wonder if the "binary only" crowd on here asks to look down the front of people's pants if they are not sure what pronoun to use.

Whoa. Are you assuming there are only two gender pronouns?

 

[JohnG]

I wonder if the "binary only" crowd on here asks to look down the front of people's pants if they are not sure what pronoun to use.

Whoa. Are you assuming there are only two gender pronouns?

You aren't at all interested in a persons right to how they present oneself, so it must be up to you to decide for them.