This week in vegan overreach

[Toni]

Someone should play her own game and make "meat only" menus and see how she likes it. Give her a taste of her own medicine.

Years back, my husband and I were vegetarians. We ate milk and egg products so we weren't vegan. For the most part, it was a budgetary decision: we didn't have much money. But it was also a lifestyle choice and as we did have more money, we remained vegetarian, with the exception of occasionally including some fish or seafood.

Now, when our families visited us, they definitely expected to be served animal flesh, and we did, even when that really blew our budget. But family is family and we did our best to make them comfortable and welcome.

However, when we visited, there were zero attempts to accommodate our vegetarian diet--not so much as making sure to include hardboiled eggs or some cheese that wasn't baked into a meat based dish. But hey: when in Rome,I guess. Unless you are the one out of your usual element.

Over time, we gradually began to serve some meat options at home, in large part because it made our kids' lives easier when they ate at friends' houses or when we traveled to visit family, which always involved staying for most of a week, staying WITH family, and sometimes hearing lectures about how much kids needed meat to grow well. Because we were 'guests' we were not allowed to cook. Because we stayed with family, it wasn't possible to just make our own entrees and to make sure there was enough for everybody. BTW, I did a lot of research into nutrition so I knew how to combine plant based foods or plants/milk or dairy to ensure we all, especially our children, were not at risk for any dietary deficiencies.

It was frankly insulting to have our dietary needs and wants ignored so thoughtlessly. Worse when it wasn't thoughtless but deliberate. It did not foster a closer relationship. It did make our visits much more difficult and less pleasant.

But hey, we eventually changed so that our kids could enjoy visiting their families and that's what was important to us. Our families only cared that we did not make them uncomfortable.

 

[Metaphor]

It kinda reminded me of the Groucho Marx line: Those are my principles, and if you don't like them...I have others.

The good news is it turns out I'm a Flexitarian of the "maybe more" variety. I've looked back and I'm completely 100% vegetarian if you don't count the times I eat meat.

I look forward to lording my superiority over others.

Oh, I'm more committed than that. I eat and wear animal products but I identify as a vegan, so that means I am one.

Who am I to judge*? But if you identify as vegan, eating meat doesn't mean you arent, it just means you are a shitty and unfaithful vegan who is very bad at living your identity.

Honestly, I'd judge a person like you more negatively over this moral failure than a faithful vegan over their questionable morals

It was a joke.

 

[Jarhyn]

Who am I to judge*? But if you identify as vegan, eating meat doesn't mean you arent, it just means you are a shitty and unfaithful vegan who is very bad at living your identity.

Honestly, I'd judge a person like you more negatively over this moral failure than a faithful vegan over their questionable morals

It was a joke.

No, it was mockery of people who choose to identify in particular ways which you seem to disapprove of. And I was running with it to prove a point about how your mockery fails to impugn the basis for such identities and respect.

 

[Metaphor]

Who am I to judge*? But if you identify as vegan, eating meat doesn't mean you arent, it just means you are a shitty and unfaithful vegan who is very bad at living your identity.

Honestly, I'd judge a person like you more negatively over this moral failure than a faithful vegan over their questionable morals

It was a joke.

No, it was mockery of people who choose to identify in particular ways which you seem to disapprove of. And I was running with it to prove a point about how your mockery fails to impugn the basis for such identities and respect.

Yeah, satirising something is a joke. You may not have liked it, but it doesn't make it something that it isn't.

 

[Jarhyn]

No, it was mockery of people who choose to identify in particular ways which you seem to disapprove of. And I was running with it to prove a point about how your mockery fails to impugn the basis for such identities and respect.

Yeah, satirising something is a joke. You may not have liked it, but it doesn't make it something that it isn't.

You call it satire; I call it a good reason to lose all respect for you as a human being.

 

[dismal]

No, it was mockery of people who choose to identify in particular ways which you seem to disapprove of. And I was running with it to prove a point about how your mockery fails to impugn the basis for such identities and respect.

Yeah, satirising something is a joke. You may not have liked it, but it doesn't make it something that it isn't.

It’s Jarhyn.

 

[Jarhyn]

No, it was mockery of people who choose to identify in particular ways which you seem to disapprove of. And I was running with it to prove a point about how your mockery fails to impugn the basis for such identities and respect.

Yeah, satirising something is a joke. You may not have liked it, but it doesn't make it something that it isn't.

It’s Jarhyn.

Says the person who "jokes" using slurs. Nobody is buying your "innocent joker" routine, and neither is it an effective or meaningful argument against that which you seek to mock rather than understand.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

The word flexitarian is used to describe people who are basically vegetarians but occasionally eat flesh. They may eat fish or meat a couple times a month, maybe more maybe less, but they are basically vegetarians, not vegans. It is to the term flexitarian I was referring.

Huh. So, its sort of like to people who say they are monogamous, but occasionally cheat on their partner?

It kinda reminded me of the Groucho Marx line: Those are my principles, and if you don't like them...I have others.

The good news is it turns out I'm a Flexitarian of the "maybe more" variety. I've looked back and I'm completely 100% vegetarian if you don't count the times I eat meat.

I look forward to lording my superiority over others.

Don't be silly.

Why does the choice have to be so binary and so absolute when it comes to diet? I really don't understand this mindset. Eating very little meat makes a person a flexitarian. It's just a word. It's not a form of cheating like in a monogamous marriage. Don't be silly.

And given our culture it's actually the most reasonable position to adopt when it comes to diet. Maybe vegan is truly healthier, I don't know, but that's really much more difficult to do in today's culture. I had a burger with friends yesterday, my first meat of the week, and likely the last.

It must be that some people are just comfortable thinking in that binary way where everything is either perfect or broken. It's not a very healthy or practical way to live. Eating far less meat is easy, healthy and sustainable.

 

[TSwizzle]

Why does the choice have to be so binary and so absolute when it comes to diet? I really don't understand this mindset. Eating very little meat makes a person a flexitarian.

I agree with you on this but going back to the OP, it kind of is binary. Vegan only menu in hospitals ?

Eating far less meat is easy, healthy and sustainable.

Again I agree. Both my kids are vegetarian and I now eat much less meat myself but I am never going to be a committed vegetarian, nor would I ever consider calling myself something as naff as a "flexitarian" and lecture people about their diets. I'm just a guy that doesn't consume as much meat as he used to.

 

[Playball40]

Haven't read the whole thread. However, vegan only menus in hospitals would be stupid and dangerous and I cannot see it flying in any circumstance.

 

[Toni]

Haven't read the whole thread. However, vegan only menus in hospitals would be stupid and dangerous and I cannot see it flying in any circumstance.

One of my children was born (my choice entirely) in a Seventh Day Adventist hospital which was vegetarian. I don't remember if it was full on vegan. I do remember the food being excellent and delicious and not much different than what I ate in my own vegetarian home. Which is not why I chose that hospital. I chose it because it was close to where I lived and mostly because they had extremely family friendly policies and allowed v-bac births.

 

[laughing dog]

Haven't read the whole thread. However, vegan only menus in hospitals would be stupid and dangerous and I cannot see it flying in any circumstance.

The proposal was not vegan only (or vegetarian only) menus in hospital but to make vegan meals the default option which means patients would get vegan unless they choose something else.

 

[thebeave]

It kinda reminded me of the Groucho Marx line: Those are my principles, and if you don't like them...I have others.

The good news is it turns out I'm a Flexitarian of the "maybe more" variety. I've looked back and I'm completely 100% vegetarian if you don't count the times I eat meat.

I look forward to lording my superiority over others.

Don't be silly.

Why does the choice have to be so binary and so absolute when it comes to diet? I really don't understand this mindset. Eating very little meat makes a person a flexitarian. It's just a word. It's not a form of cheating like in a monogamous marriage. Don't be silly.

And given our culture it's actually the most reasonable position to adopt when it comes to diet. Maybe vegan is truly healthier, I don't know, but that's really much more difficult to do in today's culture. I had a burger with friends yesterday, my first meat of the week, and likely the last.

It must be that some people are just comfortable thinking in that binary way where everything is either perfect or broken. It's not a very healthy or practical way to live. Eating far less meat is easy, healthy and sustainable.

What's the difference between and omnivore and a flexitarian?

 

[Metaphor]

It kinda reminded me of the Groucho Marx line: Those are my principles, and if you don't like them...I have others.

The good news is it turns out I'm a Flexitarian of the "maybe more" variety. I've looked back and I'm completely 100% vegetarian if you don't count the times I eat meat.

I look forward to lording my superiority over others.

Don't be silly.

Why does the choice have to be so binary and so absolute when it comes to diet? I really don't understand this mindset. Eating very little meat makes a person a flexitarian. It's just a word. It's not a form of cheating like in a monogamous marriage. Don't be silly.

And given our culture it's actually the most reasonable position to adopt when it comes to diet. Maybe vegan is truly healthier, I don't know, but that's really much more difficult to do in today's culture. I had a burger with friends yesterday, my first meat of the week, and likely the last.

It must be that some people are just comfortable thinking in that binary way where everything is either perfect or broken. It's not a very healthy or practical way to live. Eating far less meat is easy, healthy and sustainable.

What's the difference between and omnivore and a flexitarian?

A flexitarian, I would imagine, avoids animal products when they can, and reduces it when they can't avoid it.

A close friend of mine recently went vegan (contrary to stereotype, he did not announce this to anyone; I had to observe his eating habits on a few occasions to guess at it). He said when he could (most of the time) he was vegan, but if someone else had prepared a meal for him who didn't know, he would eat it out of politeness and gratitude. I think he'd be a flexitarian.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Under normal conditions, if you asked for a vegan meal at a hospital, what would you get? Likely a plate of sides. While qualifying, that is hardly a vegan meal.
Given that the average hospital stay is less than five days, I see nothing wrong with defaulting to a thoughtfully prepared vegan meal and having a slab of animal as an option. Do carnivores expect much prep beyond through cooking of their meat? Would they be offended that their meat did not receive the attention of the saucier? I don’t think so.

Being a flexible vegan is just a necessity in society. Some time back I was a vegan for about six months. When I got a job and had to drive across country for it, I became flexible real fast. I didn’t even think twice about it. At the first signs of hunger I was all over a McChicken sandwich. I did scrape the mayo off with a french fry. That’s where I drew the line.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

What's the difference between and omnivore and a flexitarian?

A flexitarian, I would imagine, avoids animal products when they can, and reduces it when they can't avoid it.

A close friend of mine recently went vegan (contrary to stereotype, he did not announce this to anyone; I had to observe his eating habits on a few occasions to guess at it). He said when he could (most of the time) he was vegan, but if someone else had prepared a meal for him who didn't know, he would eat it out of politeness and gratitude. I think he'd be a flexitarian.

Yep.

Outside of using some bacon pieces to flavor up a few soup dishes we haven't cooked a meal with meat in years. So I don't consider myself vegan but definitely vegetarian. We also use a bit of butter now and then, an egg here and there, and honey, and even some ice cream on occasion. But those old days of preparing meals centered around meat are a distant memory.

It's not a religion, just a healthier diet.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Under normal conditions, if you asked for a vegan meal at a hospital, what would you get? .

At ours? Probably vegetarian.
Veggie lasagna, veggie chili, Eggplant parmesan, ...tuna melt.
Our place doesn't really have a default meal, you have to order each meal specifically from the menu. Then the nutritionist calls up your file and kibitzes your choices based on salt, sugar, calories...

 

[ideologyhunter]

I tried Vegan. Cheetos, Pepsi, and Reeses Pieces. What's so goddamn healthy about that?

 

[ZiprHead]

I tried Vegan. Cheetos, Pepsi, and Reeses Pieces. What's so goddamn healthy about that?

I just had vegan breakfast. Chips and salsa.

 

[TSwizzle]

It's not a religion, just a healthier diet.

It kinda is a religion for them when they proselytize it by going to hospitals and making demands that vegan meals be the default or only choice.