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Those Terrorists in Nevada

Rhea

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How can such rank idiocy and pugnacious heel-dragging end? So the BLM backed down to prevent bloodshed. I feel kinda positive for that. But then what? It still remains that this moocher Bundy is grazing cattle on land that is not his and refusing to pay for it.

Where will it go?

And what will be done about the 1000 idiot assholes who think they aren't Americans?

And this just abysmally dysfunctional completely unsupported fictional idea that the American government is anything like the rule of King George. Just - gah! How do they breathe without machines?
 
I'm trying to believe that it is only a coincidence that we're approaching the anniversary of two seminal moments in the minds of nutty right wing militia types: Waco and Oklahoma City. April 19th 1993 and 1995, respectively.

Two decades later, and for some reason a bunch of armed right wing militia types show up to have a stand-off with the federal government which - if escalated - could have led to shots being fired on that anniversary?

As for when it will end, I predict this whole "states rights" thing/calls for revolution/etc. will run out of steam more or less exactly when we stop having a Black President.
 
Can someone provide a link of some kind so I know what everyone is talking about?

If there are a bunch of teabaggers shooting at people, how is that any different from any other day? Isn't it more remarkable when they're not shooting people?
 
A right winger using something that's not his and expecting others to pay the costs for him while droning on about individualism and self-sufficiency?

I'm sorry, but I just can't buy that premise.
 
Oh, and shame on you for calling them terrorists. Rightists can never be called "terrorists."

You're supposed to call them "Fair And Balanced(tm)" or perhaps "patriotic Real Americans(tm)" or even "realists," but never ever ever "terrorists."
 
Can someone provide a link of some kind so I know what everyone is talking about?

I'd post a link to the You Tube video my right wing friend posted to his Facebook page, but that would make your head explode due to the stupid. Instead, here's the short version:

Rancher dude had no problem paying a nominal fee to have his cattle graze on federal land around his ranch. Feds raised the fees (something to do with an endangered turtle species) and rancher dude suddenly found religion on "states rights" and stopped paying fees.

Back when Bill Clinton was President, if I'm not mistaken.

The case has been winding its way through the courts for a very long time - with rancher dude on the losing end of it - when the Bureau of Land Management basically said "fuck this guy" and started confiscating his cattle that were illegally grazing on federal land.

Right wing freaks out, and militia members - fresh off a long unproductive stint on the southern border hoping to shoot some Mexicans - show up with the hope of shooting some federal agents.


Hilarity ensues.
 
LOL, yeah that.

I was reading today that 1000 gun-totin' nutjobs showed up to show the gummint they were serious. None of them used public roads for their travel, I hear. Then, LOL, I read one of them told a reporter that they were going to put their women in front so that if shots were fired "feds shooting women is what would be on the front page." I mean, LOL, but WTF!?

Those people are just so NOT SANE that it boggles the mind.
 
I'd post a link to the You Tube video my right wing friend posted to his Facebook page, but that would make your head explode due to the stupid. Instead, here's the short version:

Rancher dude had no problem paying a nominal fee to have his cattle graze on federal land around his ranch. Feds raised the fees (something to do with an endangered turtle species) and rancher dude suddenly found religion on "states rights" and stopped paying fees.

Back when Bill Clinton was President, if I'm not mistaken.

The case has been winding its way through the courts for a very long time - with rancher dude on the losing end of it - when the Bureau of Land Management basically said "fuck this guy" and started confiscating his cattle that were illegally grazing on federal land.

Right wing freaks out, and militia members - fresh off a long unproductive stint on the southern border hoping to shoot some Mexicans - show up with the hope of shooting some federal agents.


Hilarity ensues.

They were looking for Mexicans to shoot on the southern border of Nevada? Nevada isn't the right shape to even have a southern border. Or were they hanging out on the banks of Lake Mead? :confused:
 
Can someone provide a link of some kind so I know what everyone is talking about?

If there are a bunch of teabaggers shooting at people, how is that any different from any other day? Isn't it more remarkable when they're not shooting people?

There was an armed standoff, no shots fired.

The BLM caved into the sovereign citizen terrorism, now the problem is going to be worse.

- - - Updated - - -

I'd post a link to the You Tube video my right wing friend posted to his Facebook page, but that would make your head explode due to the stupid. Instead, here's the short version:

Rancher dude had no problem paying a nominal fee to have his cattle graze on federal land around his ranch. Feds raised the fees (something to do with an endangered turtle species) and rancher dude suddenly found religion on "states rights" and stopped paying fees.

No. They lowered the number of cattle he was allowed to graze. He responded by stopping paying. He's now got nearly twice the cattle that were originally allowed.
 
How can such rank idiocy and pugnacious heel-dragging end? So the BLM backed down to prevent bloodshed. I feel kinda positive for that. But then what? It still remains that this moocher Bundy is grazing cattle on land that is not his and refusing to pay for it.

Where will it go?

And what will be done about the 1000 idiot assholes who think they aren't Americans?

And this just abysmally dysfunctional completely unsupported fictional idea that the American government is anything like the rule of King George. Just - gah! How do they breathe without machines?

You are, no doubt, reliant on either the partisan left media and/or the msm liberal press for your information - that would explain your misunderstandings and mischaracterization of the standoff and related issues.

Last week hundreds of armed federal agents and contract cowboys descended on the BLM property. They came well armed in SUV's and helicopters, some of them reputed to be snipers. Public protestors and militia members also arrived, the first (and only) violence starting when the government tased Ammon Bundy, a member of the Bundy family. Federal officials pulled back out of fear of escalating tensions. (No doubt Ruby Ridge and Waco has taught some of them something).

The federal government has been a part of a campaign to drive out ownership in-holdings, lease holders, and permit holders in the West for many decades. It has done so under many pretexts - some valid, many not. As 80 percent of the State of Nevada is owned by the federal government, like many Western states, there has been a great deal of state citizen resentment of their economic lives being controlled by Washington DC.

Supposedly the reason that the BLM is taking action against Bundy is on behalf of the desert tortoise which is on the endangered species list. In 1993 they reduced his allotment to 150 cattle 'for the tortoise', in retaliation Bundy refused to pay his fees, in 1994 they revoked his permit and closed off the Gold Butte area to grazing. (All other ranchers in the area are now gone, their permits being bought back by the feds).

In 2012 an environmentalist group sued the BLM for not removing Bundy's cattle. In 2013 the BLM announced a plan to euthanize hundreds of tortoises in its Vegas refuge area due to budget shortfalls (developer tortise mitigation fees, once 300,000 a year has plummeted).

There is some speculation that Reid and his son Rory were deeply involved, as they were in a deal with a Chinese-owned ENN Energy Group to build a 5 billion dollar solar farm in Laughlin Nevada. And the new head of the BLM was a senior policy adviser to Reid, who left Reid's office in 2011. The Senate voted 71 to 28 to confirm Kornze as the new director in 2013.

Bundy does not have a legal leg to stand-on BUT, one should have sympathy for his situation. And the fact that he stood down the federal leviathan's attempt to take his livelihood...well, that warms the heart.
 
Bundy does not have a legal leg to stand-on BUT, one should have sympathy for his situation.


I can't muster a whole lot of sympathy for the guy. He's been thumbing his nose at the law for decades, and it finally came back to bite him in the ass. Now he's pretending that there's some "states rights" struggle going on, and right wing militia types are pretending he's some sort of patriot for what he's doing.

He's not. He's a businessman who has been using federal land to enrich himself for decades, and the feds finally tried to stop him. He's no hero.
 
You are, no doubt, reliant on either the partisan left media and/or the msm liberal press for your information - that would explain your misunderstandings and mischaracterization of the standoff and related issues.

Last week hundreds of armed federal agents and contract cowboys descended on the BLM property. They came well armed in SUV's and helicopters, some of them reputed to be snipers. Public protestors and militia members also arrived, the first (and only) violence starting when the government tased Ammon Bundy, a member of the Bundy family. Federal officials pulled back out of fear of escalating tensions. (No doubt Ruby Ridge and Waco has taught some of them something).

The federal government has been a part of a campaign to drive out ownership in-holdings, lease holders, and permit holders in the West for many decades. It has done so under many pretexts - some valid, many not. As 80 percent of the State of Nevada is owned by the federal government, like many Western states, there has been a great deal of state citizen resentment of their economic lives being controlled by Washington DC.

Supposedly the reason that the BLM is taking action against Bundy is on behalf of the desert tortoise which is on the endangered species list. In 1993 they reduced his allotment to 150 cattle 'for the tortoise', in retaliation Bundy refused to pay his fees, in 1994 they revoked his permit and closed off the Gold Butte area to grazing. (All other ranchers in the area are now gone, their permits being bought back by the feds).

In 2012 an environmentalist group sued the BLM for not removing Bundy's cattle. In 2013 the BLM announced a plan to euthanize hundreds of tortoises in its Vegas refuge area due to budget shortfalls (developer tortise mitigation fees, once 300,000 a year has plummeted).

There is some speculation that Reid and his son Rory were deeply involved, as they were in a deal with a Chinese-owned ENN Energy Group to build a 5 billion dollar solar farm in Laughlin Nevada. And the new head of the BLM was a senior policy adviser to Reid, who left Reid's office in 2011. The Senate voted 71 to 28 to confirm Kornze as the new director in 2013.

Bundy does not have a legal leg to stand-on BUT, one should have sympathy for his situation. And the fact that he stood down the federal leviathan's attempt to take his livelihood...well, that warms the heart.

Surely you don't think that it is a sign of moral character to steal one's livelihood from the common weal, and to defend your theft by force of arms?

Let's look at an analogy:

John Doe has a deal (handed down from his grandfather, who originally obtained it) with the US Treasury, whereby he purchases gold bullion from them, and he is permitted to enter Fort Knox to collect the purchased gold. He is allowed to buy up to 300 oz. per annum, in 1 oz lots; but then the Treasury Dept. decide that his use of the facility is causing distress to the cat that lives in the vaults, and so they notify him (in accordance with his original agreement with them) that he is now only permitted to buy 150 oz. per annum, to reduce the number of times their pet is disturbed.

John Doe is enraged by this, and refuses to comply; he continues to turn up at Fort Knox and take 300 oz. per annum of gold, but no longer pays for it.

Oddly enough, the Treasury Dept. do not like someone simply taking stuff from their vaults; they instruct the guards to stop John Doe from taking any more gold out of Fort Knox. Now John Doe shows up heavily armed, and with a bunch of armed associates, intent on continuing to remove bullion from 'their' vault.

Is turning up at a bank, heavily armed, and with intent to steal from it, a heart warming example of standing up to the federal leviathan; or is it a felony, for which the perpetrators should pay with their liberty?

Why is the answer different when instead of a bank, the target is a piece of grazing land?

Why do you support this person's desire to continue to take what does not belong to him? Is it because he and his family have been taking for generations? If so, would you similarly support people demanding food stamps from the government on the sole basis that their family has been dependant on them for generations? Would you find it heart-warming if a person who was denied food stamps used armed force to persuade the government to continue providing those food stamps? If not, why not?
 
LOL, yeah that.

I was reading today that 1000 gun-totin' nutjobs showed up to show the gummint they were serious. None of them used public roads for their travel, I hear. Then, LOL, I read one of them told a reporter that they were going to put their women in front so that if shots were fired "feds shooting women is what would be on the front page." I mean, LOL, but WTF!?

Those people are just so NOT SANE that it boggles the mind.

How dare you suggest that these patriots are insane just because they are fighting for their rights against the oppression of a socialist dictatorship? Why do you hate freedom so much? The gubmint is clearly coming to confiscate our guns! It's time to water the tree of liberty boys! Freedom isn't free! Lower taxes!!!!!!!!11!!!!! [/conservolibertarian]
 
Surely you don't think that it is a sign of moral character to steal one's livelihood from the common weal, and to defend your theft by force of arms?

Let's look at an analogy:

...Oddly enough, the Treasury Dept. do not like someone simply taking stuff from their vaults; they instruct the guards to stop John Doe from taking any more gold out of Fort Knox. Now John Doe shows up heavily armed, and with a bunch of armed associates, intent on continuing to remove bullion from 'their' vault.

Is turning up at a bank, heavily armed, and with intent to steal from it, a heart warming example of standing up to the federal leviathan; or is it a felony, for which the perpetrators should pay with their liberty?

Why is the answer different when instead of a bank, the target is a piece of grazing land?

Why do you support this person's desire to continue to take what does not belong to him? Is it because he and his family have been taking for generations? If so, would you similarly support people demanding food stamps from the government on the sole basis that their family has been dependant on them for generations? Would you find it heart-warming if a person who was denied food stamps used armed force to persuade the government to continue providing those food stamps? If not, why not?

Sympathy does not require one to find his moral or intellectual stance legitimate, it only requires one to have pathos, an understanding and feeling for the distress or need of another. It is not difficult, it is simply viewing it from the perspective of those in distress. You don't need empathy (to share that state of emotion) you only need that little grain of humanity and concern for the well being and of another.

Naturally folks have different viewpoints about the well being of another. For example, a man whose family has generations ago homesteaded and built a social, cultural, and economic life based on routine access to grazing rights, and by all accounts are willing to pay to keep those rights if in total, and who makes an otherwise honest living by hard work and ranching sounds like a person who is worthy of sympathy. No doubt he pays his considerable income taxes to the commonweal (more than the 47 percent who share the commonweals land ownership) and, beyond grazing rights, sounds rather self-sufficient and industrious. Anyone of us (who value productive and hard work) might have been his ancestors or his posterity.

Mind you, someone who makes the same claim upon food stamps might be just as sympathetic - although it might be a bit more challenging to sympathize with a family that has lived for generations off of food stamps without any productive labor or significant taxes to 'the commonweal'. It also might be a bit more trying when they don't pay anything at all for free food, paid out of pocket by the commonweal, with the assumption that they have a right to be loafers and sponges. On the other hand, there are many cases were I would have sympathy, even if morally and legally they are were in error.

Your stern indignation over a lack of payment to the government over scrub land is interesting; do you suffer such cold blooded frugality when it comes to the long line of crony capitalists, grant seekers, health/education/welfare recipients, campaign donors, who come to Washington to claim their share of the commonweal loot - especially on behalf of the 47 percent?

Finally, my heart is warmed not because I believe him to be intellectually or morally in the right, but because anytime a few Americans stand up to their government destroying their lives on behalf of desert turtles, solar plants, or Harry Reid I think it a small but important statement; not everyone is a bovine to the worshiped leviathan.
 
I don't have a dog in the fight; what happens in Washington DC has no more or less effect on my life than what happens in Moscow, Delhi, or Beijing.

I just find it odd and inconsistent that you applaud this particular mooching thief, while being so vocally opposed to others of that ilk.

From where I sit, it is akin to watching a football fan who has been cursing the referees for their bias at every match his team has lost due to adjudication errors, suddenly praising their impartiality when his team wins due to some similarly poor judgements.
 
I have rarely seen a story with such a wide gap of opinion between left and right.

Is it possible that both Bundy is mooching and that Reid and his crew are trying to get the land freed up for solar power projects?

I went to the source of this story today and watched a couple Alex Jones videos about it. He and Drudge have flogged this story non-stop for about a week. The guest was a complete dope who claimed that it is a construction boondoggle that will make less money in energy than it will cost to make. Why would a Chinese (or any) company do that? He also said that new oil is being make by the earth all the time - proving that he is an idiot.

I would imagine that if Germany can make solar work that Nevada would be able to. The issue may be that any project may overcharge the taxpayers for construction and after that give most of the revenue to the private owners. That would be standard. Apparently (note this is from right wing news) the land will be sold at cut rate prices to the solar project.
 
From where I sit, it is akin to watching a football fan who has been cursing the referees for their bias at every match his team has lost due to adjudication errors, suddenly praising their impartiality when his team wins due to some similarly poor judgements.

I think the view from where you sit is pretty damned accurate.

Defying the federal government in the US is considered a noble act of civil disobedience if you're a stalwart libertarian. If you're a Mexican crossing the border to work the fields? Not so much.

If this rancher's name was Pedro, and instead of cattle he was fighting to keep immigrants providing his income, I'd guess that the number of self-appointed armed "patriots" showing up to defend him would be next to zero.
 
I think the view from where you sit is pretty damned accurate.

Defying the federal government in the US is considered a noble act of civil disobedience if you're a stalwart libertarian. If you're a Mexican crossing the border to work the fields? Not so much.

If this rancher's name was Pedro, and instead of cattle he was fighting to keep immigrants providing his income, I'd guess that the number of self-appointed armed "patriots" showing up to defend him would be next to zero.

Better yet, perhaps BLM armed agents and helicopters ought to be at the borders rounding up illegals on federal land, rather than cows in Nevada.
 
Better yet, perhaps BLM armed agents and helicopters ought to be at the borders rounding up illegals on federal land, rather than cows in Nevada.


Well if we're to take this rancher at his most recent word, there is no such thing as "federal land."
 
If I were running the show, this is what I'd do.

Carefully announce sometime in 2015 that Bundy will be arrested by federal agents in X days sometime in Nevada's dry season. Then I would make sure that there's a similar gang of idiots organized to protect them.

Then the night before the arrest I send in the Nevada National Guard and an Army Division with the Army Corps of Engineers and a shitload of barbed wire, and blockade the roads and erect a line of circumvallation around Bundy's little bunch of retards. Then I cut electricity and water and wait after announcing via radio that all children under 18 and any persons willing to lay down arms may leave the without fear of prosecution, licensed legal weapons will be returned to them after they return home.

Then you maintain the siege that Bundy has asked for but does not, in fact, want indefinitely. I make sure there are news cameras as each idiot realizes he's fucked and walks out humiliated.

If the "Patriots" are lucky enough to get a freak rainstorm before they die of thirst then they'll starve like rats. They may want to be Spartans at Thermopylae, give them a bit of Sphacteria.
 
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