Today's trial regarding whether a former president can be charged with a crime

[southernhybrid]

I'm sharing a link for anyone who isn't able to listen to the trial on tv. Trump's lawyers are really throwing shit at the wall, hoping something will stick, imo. There's a lot more in the link to read for anyone who is interested.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2024/01/09/trump-immunity-case-court-arguments-jan-6/

Three judges on the U.S. Court of Appeals on Tuesday are hearing Donald Trump’s unprecedented claim that a former president cannot be put on trial for any crime related to the office unless first impeached and convicted by Congress. It’s a theory that was rejected by the district court judge overseeing Trump’s trial on election interference charges, and it is seen as dubious by both Republican and Democratic experts on executive power. Two dozen conservative attorneys wrote to the court, saying that “nothing in our Constitution, or any case, supports former President Trump’s dangerous argument for criminal immunity.” But it’s a question that has never been debated before, because Trump is the first ex-president to be charged with a crime. Trump does not have to be in court for Tuesday’s hearing but arrived to the courthouse Tuesday.

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Here's what to know​

The panel of judges deciding the issue includes two appointees of President Biden, J. Michelle Childs and Florence Y. Pan; and one appointee of George H.W. Bush, Karen L. Henderson.
Tuesday’s hearing started at 9:30 a.m. Eastern, and oral argument is scheduled to last 50 minutes with about 20 minutes of questioning for each side and some more time for rebuttal.

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[Elixir]

To ensure that the proper ruling is reached, I suggest that Sleepy Joe show up at the courthouse.
If the Judges make the determination that presidents are immune, then when Cheato steps outside, Joe can simply shoot him in the head.

 

[Ford]

To ensure that the proper ruling is reached, I suggest that Sleepy Joe show up at the courthouse.
If the Judges make the determination that presidents are immune, then when Cheato steps outside, Joe can simply shoot him in the head.

One of Trump's lawyers actually made the case that if a President wanted to order SEAL Team Six to kill a political rival, he could only be prosecuted if he was impeached and removed from office. If not? He could never be prosecuted for ordering an assassination.

"Weaponizing the federal government" indeed.

 

[ideologyhunter]

I don't think his team takes the argument far enough. I want them to assert that, even should Trump break all 10 commandments in a ten-minute time period, he should enjoy immunity from hell.
Then I tried to sequence those ten minutes, using the Exodus 20 list, not the nutty list from chapter 34. It would take some planning, but I think it's doable. For instance, if he rawdogs Stormy starting at 11:58 p.m. on Sat and finishes, at, say, 12:01 on Sun. am, he's defiled both Sabbaths and committed adultery, and if they do it on top of his parents' wedding picture, we've got honor thy mom & dad. If he kisses an image of a Germanic fertility god while shouting "Holy God!" as he busts a nut at 12:01, we've covered the first three commandments. He could both covet Stormy's Rolex and steal it, then bear false witness and claim that Eric stole it. That still leaves murder, and I just can't put that in. Stormy is kind of likable, and I don't want to see her dead. So nine out of ten. And then heaven.

 

[Elixir]

That still leaves murder, and I just can't put that in. Stormy is kind of likable, and I don't want to see her dead.

Such a vivid imagination, yet, it ran out at the crucial moment!
Eric shows up at 12:02, just as Daddy is blaming him for stealing Stormy's Rolex, so Daddy murders him to prevent him from saying "nuh-uh!".

 

[AdamWho]

Here is an audio version of the briefing (~1hr)



In the first 15 min. Trump's lawyer argues that a president is completely immune from ANYTHING that might be remotely considered an official act UNLESS he is impeached and convinced. This includes such examples as, selling pardons, selling secrets to foreign governments, and assassinating political rivals. At the same time, Trump's lawyer is arguing that he cannot be tried for ANY crime for which he was impeached but not convinced because of double jeopardy... because they failed high school civics.

According to them a president could murder or threaten to murder members of Congress to prevent any impeachment and do ANYTHING they want without legal or political jeopardy. In other words, the President is a king.

 

[ZiprHead]

So if true, Biden could send Seal Team 6 to kill Trump. ETA: And his lawyers.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Meanwhile on "Bad Lawyering"...

Pan seemed skeptical and said that conceding that a president can be prosecuted for official acts in any instance — say, after the congressional impeachment and conviction process — undermines the president’s presidential immunity argument.

“Given that you’re conceding that presidents can be criminally prosecuted, doesn’t that narrow the issues before us to, ‘Can a president be prosecuted without first being impeached and convicted?’” Pan said. She added, “Once you concede that presidents can be prosecuted under some circumstances, your other arguments fall away.”

Trump hire that Simpsons lawyer, Lionel Hutz? That is a reflection a Law Professor should be giving a student in their first year of law school, not a judge against an actual lawyer.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

In other words, the President is a king.

Not just any king but the kind with divine rights. The silver lining here is that we won't need a judiciary anymore. All presidential appointees will have the same power. Think how simple life will become for all of us.

 

[ZiprHead]

So he could kill any congress person who threatens to bring impeachment charges. Heads I win, tails I win.

 

[AdamWho]

So if true, Biden could send Seal Team 6 to kill Trump. ETA: And his lawyers.

Why stop there?

There is a whole corrupt wing of the Republican party that puts Trump over party and country.

And according to Trump's lawyers, he could simply resign (having not been impeached) and be completely free of punishment

 

[bilby]

To ensure that the proper ruling is reached, I suggest that Sleepy Joe show up at the courthouse.
If the Judges make the determination that presidents are immune, then when Cheato steps outside, Joe can simply shoot him in the head.

One of Trump's lawyers actually made the case that if a President wanted to order SEAL Team Six to kill a political rival, he could only be prosecuted if he was impeached and removed from office.

Indeed. Biden need not be there in person; Delegation is an essential (perhaps the most essential) element of the President's role.

I agree with Trump's legal team; Biden should have Trump assassinated by SEAL Team Six, as soon as the trial ends, if the judges rule in favour of Presidential immunity.

 

[bilby]

Trump hire that Simpsons lawyer, Lionel Hutz?

Nobody as competent as Hutz will represent him anymore.

You get what you pay for; If you routinely stiff your lawyers, this is the quality of representation you should expect.

When your own lawyer is telling the current President to have special forces assassins take you down, you know you're getting the worst possible defence.

 

[Ford]

Trump hire that Simpsons lawyer, Lionel Hutz?

Nobody as competent as Hutz will represent him anymore.

You get what you pay for; If you routinely stiff your lawyers, this is the quality of representation you should expect.

I mean, Trump's most prominent lawyer at the moment is "she works where? At a parking garage? She's hot. Can we get her?"

 

[Shadowy Man]

To ensure that the proper ruling is reached, I suggest that Sleepy Joe show up at the courthouse.
If the Judges make the determination that presidents are immune, then when Cheato steps outside, Joe can simply shoot him in the head.

One of Trump's lawyers actually made the case that if a President wanted to order SEAL Team Six to kill a political rival, he could only be prosecuted if he was impeached and removed from office.

Indeed. Biden need not be there in person; Delegation is an essential (perhaps the most essential) element of the President's role.

I agree with Trump's legal team; Biden should have Trump assassinated by SEAL Team Six, as soon as the trial ends, if the judges rule in favour of Presidential immunity.

To be fair, the argument seems to be that he could then be impeached and convicted for it by the Congress then arrested and convicted again by law enforcement. The argument is that the latter cannot happen without the former. I think the argument is a loser but that’s what it appears to be. Not that there is total immunity.

 

[ZiprHead]

To ensure that the proper ruling is reached, I suggest that Sleepy Joe show up at the courthouse.
If the Judges make the determination that presidents are immune, then when Cheato steps outside, Joe can simply shoot him in the head.

One of Trump's lawyers actually made the case that if a President wanted to order SEAL Team Six to kill a political rival, he could only be prosecuted if he was impeached and removed from office.

Indeed. Biden need not be there in person; Delegation is an essential (perhaps the most essential) element of the President's role.

I agree with Trump's legal team; Biden should have Trump assassinated by SEAL Team Six, as soon as the trial ends, if the judges rule in favour of Presidential immunity.

To be fair, the argument seems to be that he could then be impeached and convicted for it by the Congress then arrested and convicted again by law enforcement. The argument is that the latter cannot happen without the former. I think the argument is a loser but that’s what it appears to be. Not that there is total immunity.

So he can then have any congress person suggesting impeachment killed.

 

[Shadowy Man]

To ensure that the proper ruling is reached, I suggest that Sleepy Joe show up at the courthouse.
If the Judges make the determination that presidents are immune, then when Cheato steps outside, Joe can simply shoot him in the head.

One of Trump's lawyers actually made the case that if a President wanted to order SEAL Team Six to kill a political rival, he could only be prosecuted if he was impeached and removed from office.

Indeed. Biden need not be there in person; Delegation is an essential (perhaps the most essential) element of the President's role.

I agree with Trump's legal team; Biden should have Trump assassinated by SEAL Team Six, as soon as the trial ends, if the judges rule in favour of Presidential immunity.

To be fair, the argument seems to be that he could then be impeached and convicted for it by the Congress then arrested and convicted again by law enforcement. The argument is that the latter cannot happen without the former. I think the argument is a loser but that’s what it appears to be. Not that there is total immunity.

So he can then have any congress person suggesting impeachment killed.

Or at least detained so they can’t vote. Or threatened or otherwise intimidated into supporting him. There are many creative ways this could go wrong.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

To ensure that the proper ruling is reached, I suggest that Sleepy Joe show up at the courthouse.
If the Judges make the determination that presidents are immune, then when Cheato steps outside, Joe can simply shoot him in the head.

One of Trump's lawyers actually made the case that if a President wanted to order SEAL Team Six to kill a political rival, he could only be prosecuted if he was impeached and removed from office.

Indeed. Biden need not be there in person; Delegation is an essential (perhaps the most essential) element of the President's role.

I agree with Trump's legal team; Biden should have Trump assassinated by SEAL Team Six, as soon as the trial ends, if the judges rule in favour of Presidential immunity.

To be fair, the argument seems to be that he could then be impeached and convicted for it by the Congress then arrested and convicted again by law enforcement. The argument is that the latter cannot happen without the former. I think the argument is a loser but that’s what it appears to be. Not that there is total immunity.

So he can then have any congress person suggesting impeachment killed.

Yes, Biden can.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

In other words, the President is a king.

Not just any king but the kind with divine rights. The silver lining here is that we won't need a judiciary anymore. All presidential appointees will have the same power. Think how simple life will become for all of us.

Not quite--he's subject to impeachment.

However, he could simply execute anyone who votes for impeachment.

 

[Elixir]

he could simply execute anyone who votes for impeachment

It's like ancient Egypt... His Son by the Daughter-Wife will inherit the throne and the claim to Divinity, unless His other, forgotten Son gets to Him first.
I wonder how soon we can loot His tomb!