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Tort Law Run Amok - $750,000 for a shoplifter

According to the article YOU posted :hysterical:

According to the article I posted Moore's lawyer made a statement favorable to his client. Do you believe everything plaintiff's lawyers say?
Schicker said Ludlow, who weighed more than 250 pounds, essentially “hurled” the 150-pound Moore to the ground.
The article wasn't claiming this as a fact, it merely recounted statements made by the attorney.

There was a photo accompanying the article. Those injuries were not from "falling down". And it appears that the jury agreed with the lawyer's characterization, too.

All in all, I think believing the plaintiff's attorney is a much better bet than believing anything you would have to say on the topic.
 
According to the article I posted Moore's lawyer made a statement favorable to his client. Do you believe everything plaintiff's lawyers say?
Schicker said Ludlow, who weighed more than 250 pounds, essentially “hurled” the 150-pound Moore to the ground.
The article wasn't claiming this as a fact, it merely recounted statements made by the attorney.

There was a photo accompanying the article. Those injuries were not from "falling down". And it appears that the jury agreed with the lawyer's characterization, too.

All in all, I think believing the plaintiff's attorney is a much better bet than believing anything you would have to say on the topic.

More importantly than what we believe is what the 12 people on the jury believed after being presented with all the evidence and who spent several days hearing and analyzing everything related to the case. To believe that the jury got it wrong (as Derec seems to do) after reading an article and thinking about it for a few minutes is the height of arrogance.
 
That's because I accidentally pasted the title for URL. Fixed now.

I do not think the extent of injury should matter. Had he had a heart attack during the confrontation, should the store be on the hook for "wrongful death"?
The perp sustained injuries while the LPOs tried to restrain him until the police arrived. He resisted and was unlucky in that him falling down caused significant injuries. But without his resisting and without him shoplifting he would not have sustained any injuries.
Now had the LPOs sought to inflict deliberate injury that would be separate assault and battery. But criminals should not get to sue for injuries sustained during the crime itself. I mean, given US tort law Home Alone 2 should have been a courtroom drama where Harry and Marv sue the McAllisters for millions. Homeless Alone is the third installment where they are all, well, homeless having lost their house to the burglars ...
The company should pay for his bad luck since such luck wouldn't have come about had people under the company's employ not caused it.

I'm testing that opinion, not offering it as a solidified opinion.

Very briefly, here's how the issue was likely framed: was the detainment and nature of the detainment within the scope of the employee's job description? If it was not, then you have either an intentional tort or some form of negligence. For the former, did person A commit act X that was foreseeably likely to cause Y damage to person B? If so, then it was an intentional act and damages are appropriate.

Further, the property did not belong to the person who assaulted the thief. One can actually pursue another who has stolen their property provided it happens in that moment (aka "hot pursuit"). But that's not what happened here. The thief took a thing and while doing so presented no immediate danger to anyone and had not stolen any of their personal property. And while it's not unlawful to physically detain a shoplifter, it is unlawful to nearly kill them while doing so.

If it was under a theory of negligence, then the question(s) is this: was there a duty was owed, was that duty breached, was there a harm done, and would a reasonable person in the defendant's position have done the same thing?

Negligence generally falls under accidental, rather than intentional theories. And in case, if it did amount amount to negligence, you'd posit what's called a respondent superior theory---the employer is responsible for what his employees do. It's well settled law.

I didn't read the article because there's no need. The press is shockingly bad at describing the law and legal proceedings.

As for American tort law, it works pretty well, despite stories like this. Even this story isn't that bad when you know the logic and reasoning behind why tort law is structured the way it is. Once in a while you'll hear a story about someone getting some ridiculous sum for seemingly minor damages, but those are rare in comparison to what usually happens--and even then people don't know the real story because the press misreports it.

The best example is the elderly woman who got burned by the McDonald's coffee and received several million dollars in damages for it. To this day many still don't know that the woman had 2nd and 3rd degree burns on her vagina and anus and required skin grafting in order to repair the damage, and that that branch had been warned previously about the temperature of its coffee. The pictures of the physical damages are hideous.

Anyway, I didn't mean to go on for so long, but trust me, you got the very short version of it.
 
The company should pay for his bad luck since such luck wouldn't have come about had people under the company's employ not caused it.
He chose to commit the crime of shoplifting. The LPOs merely tried to prevent his crime.
I do not see why he should benefit from his crime just because he got hurt while he did it.
Benefiting for other things that might happen during the commission of a crime and benefiting from the crime itself is not the same thing. If he had fell on a slippery floor while running, he might have benefitted as well, but it wouldn't have been because he was committing a crime. Do not minimize the nature of the LPO's actions. The shoplifter did something, and there are legal consequences for it, and the LPO's did something, and regardless of what they may have merely been trying to do, they (apparently) caused injury in the process, something that wouldn't have happened had they been more careful, and that is so despite the other truthful observation that it wouldn't have happened had he not resisted, as that fact is about as relevant as the fact it wouldn't have happened had they been closed.

We must compartmentalize the actions that take place and hold each agent responsible for their own actions.
 
The company should pay for his bad luck since such luck wouldn't have come about had people under the company's employ not caused it.
He chose to commit the crime of shoplifting. The LPOs merely tried to prevent his crime.
I do not see why he should benefit from his crime just because he got hurt while he did it.
What is the punishment for petty theft in that jurisdiction?
 
The company should pay for his bad luck since such luck wouldn't have come about had people under the company's employ not caused it.
He chose to commit the crime of shoplifting. The LPOs merely tried to prevent his crime.
I do not see why he should benefit from his crime just because he got hurt while he did it.
Hurt... as in a fractured skull and allegedly suffers from traumatic brain injury. That goes past the ridiculous threshold of hurt.

The question should be, was the crime being committed warrant such physical force. He wasn't robbing a bank. He wasn't mugging someone.

He shouldn't be entitled to compensation for emotional harm, but the medical bills, which can become astronomical? Yeah, that doesn't seem unreasonable to someone who had their skull fractured.

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He chose to commit the crime of shoplifting. The LPOs merely tried to prevent his crime.
I do not see why he should benefit from his crime just because he got hurt while he did it.
What is the punishment for petty theft in that jurisdiction?
There or in Baltimore?
 
He chose to commit the crime of shoplifting. The LPOs merely tried to prevent his crime.
I do not see why he should benefit from his crime just because he got hurt while he did it.
Hurt... as in a fractured skull and allegedly suffers from traumatic brain injury. That goes past the ridiculous threshold of hurt.

The question should be, was the crime being committed warrant such physical force. He wasn't robbing a bank. He wasn't mugging someone.

He shouldn't be entitled to compensation for emotional harm, but the medical bills, which can become astronomical? Yeah, that doesn't seem unreasonable to someone who had their skull fractured.

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He chose to commit the crime of shoplifting. The LPOs merely tried to prevent his crime.
I do not see why he should benefit from his crime just because he got hurt while he did it.
What is the punishment for petty theft in that jurisdiction?
There or in Baltimore?

Well here it is a $20 fine plus the cost of the merchandise (less than $50 worth of stuff). It looks like it is a maximum of $1000 or six months in jail for Nebraska.

Also, there is a reason why we have courts and laws because he can be punished though them, not through a physical assault by some random dude.
 
I would have come to the same decision. The system worked. The rat brain in me wants to kick the shoplifters ass on the spot, however, but not break a skull.
 
Shoplifter who suffered skull fractures, brain damage wins $750,000 in lawsuit against store
There should be a law prohibiting criminals to sue for injuries they sustained during commission of their crimes. The whole US tort system stinks.

Anyone can use reasonable force to carry out an arrest a suspect or prevent a crime. A person is not expected to make fine judgements over the level of force used in the heat of the moment. This is if the persons believed honestly and instinctively this was used appropriately and legally(including in self-defence). What the court seems to have decided is excessive force was used and therefore actionable in the courts.
First of all the person would only be a shoplifter once he is convicted, hence he was a suspect. The law is to prevent the needless use of violence, possibly leading to severe injuries or homicide.

The court here determined that excessive force was used.
 
Hurt... as in a fractured skull and allegedly suffers from traumatic brain injury. That goes past the ridiculous threshold of hurt.

The question should be, was the crime being committed warrant such physical force. He wasn't robbing a bank. He wasn't mugging someone.

He shouldn't be entitled to compensation for emotional harm, but the medical bills, which can become astronomical? Yeah, that doesn't seem unreasonable to someone who had their skull fractured.

- - - Updated - - -

He chose to commit the crime of shoplifting. The LPOs merely tried to prevent his crime.
I do not see why he should benefit from his crime just because he got hurt while he did it.
What is the punishment for petty theft in that jurisdiction?
There or in Baltimore?

Well here it is a $20 fine plus the cost of the merchandise (less than $50 worth of stuff). It looks like it is a maximum of $1000 or six months in jail for Nebraska.

Also, there is a reason why we have courts and laws because he can be punished though them, not through a physical assault by some random dude.

Correct.
 
The company should pay for his bad luck since such luck wouldn't have come about had people under the company's employ not caused it.
He chose to commit the crime of shoplifting. The LPOs merely tried to prevent his crime.
I do not see why he should benefit from his crime just because he got hurt while he did it.

He didn't benefit from his crime - that would be the case if the ruling were, eg., that he gets to walk away with the scissors. He got "a traumatic brain injury — one that continues to cause problems with his thought process and memory" as an indirect result of the crime and as the direct result of the person trying to prevent the crime in a manner that was itself unlawful.
 
Yes, the unofficial deep pockets doctrine of US tort law.
They awarded the money because these violent idiots used excessive force.
No, they awarded the money because the perp got hurt while stealing from corporation with deep pockets. The two bolded phrases is all US juries want to hear, unfortunately.

That may be your perception, but research on American juries and how they treat corporations has shown otherwise. There is no systematic tendency for juries to favor plaintiffs who bring lawsuits against corporations. Neil Vidmar of Duke and Valerie Hans of Cornell are two of the leading researchers who have shown otherwise; their book American Juries: The Verdict is very informative, as is Hans' solo work Business on Trial.
 
He chose to commit the crime of shoplifting. The LPOs merely tried to prevent his crime.
I do not see why he should benefit from his crime just because he got hurt while he did it.

He didn't benefit from his crime - that would be the case if the ruling were, eg., that he gets to walk away with the scissors. He got "a traumatic brain injury — one that continues to cause problems with his thought process and memory" as an indirect result of the crime and as the direct result of the person trying to prevent the crime in a manner that was itself unlawful.

According to the court the injury was a direct result of excessive force. Preventing the crime was not lawful, excessive force is.
 
I own a retail business and it is my firm policy that employs do not try to interfere with anyone who has criminal intentions. When we have staff meetings, I say, "We have never had a cash drawer with enough money to be worth getting hurt. If business improves to that point, we will tell them the policy has changed."
It depends on the circumstances as to whether or not I agree. I should not be required to interfere (not that you said I should), but disallowing interference (which you say should be case across the board) I do disagree with, since you leave no exceptions.

My view is that we may act when our own individual life is on the line. Statistics do not trump that right. Common sense nor reason should trump that. Even if acting puts others in harms way, it should be permissible to act. Just as a woman being dragged in a car should be allowed to fight back (regardless of expert opinion), a man with a gun to his head should not have to acquiesce and put his life in the hands of another in hopes that all works out (regardless of expert opinion).

There's more to say, but this may not be the thread for it, not that I particularly want to pursue this anyway.

A technical point: When an attacker is trying to force someone into a car, this is the time all self defense experts say maximum resistance must be given. This is a very different situation from a purse grabbing or other kind of robbery.

When I had more than one store, both were on the same corner. This required the cash bag to be carried across the parking lot after closing. Most of the time, I handled this job. When I was not there, the instructions were explicit. If someone appeared and demanded the bag, the employee was to throw the bag over the robber's head and run in the opposite direction, with no concern for what happened to the money. The goal of this policy was to prevent a 19 year old shop clerk from being killed or injured for about $120. These days, most purchases are on debit cards.

That's how I handle the problem. What you intend to do when someone has a gun to your head, is your choice. I'm not sure what options you think you have at that moment, but acquiescing and hoping for the best are probably the top of the list, unless Chuck Norris is coming through the door.
 
If someone appeared and demanded the bag, the employee was to throw the bag over the robber's head and run in the opposite direction, with no concern for what happened to the money.

For argument's sake, I won't quibble with what extra danger that may or may not bring to the already precarious situation. I'll even stick my neck out and say that course of action is as reasonable as most. But, there is an important line, a line so important that it separates what I believe a company should have a right to demand of its employees.

As a general rule, if an employee cannot follow safety instructions, then perhaps they can find employment elsewhere, but then again, your stipulated course of action crosses the before-mentioned line regarding the right of self-preservation regardless of expert opinion. See, your protocol, reasonable as may be, doesn't make exception for when life is potentially in immenent danger of being taken away.

If an unarmed man jumps out the dark and demands the bag, then fine, the company should have a right to demand that employees follow your protocol, and if the employee is unwilling, then she can face getting written up or fired. She shouldn't have taken the job if she's unwilling or incapable of performing the clearly written instructions.

However, as it stands, a company can legally cross this line I speak of, and that is wrong, and because it's wrong, it should be changed. It doesn't matter that the chances of a better outcome is more likely by following the required protocol. It shouldn't be required in instances where one's life is put in the hands of someone with a deadly weapon.
 
Shoplifter who suffered skull fractures, brain damage wins $750,000 in lawsuit against store
There should be a law prohibiting criminals to sue for injuries they sustained during commission of their crimes. The whole US tort system stinks.

The reason for this:

Schicker said most retail stores have policies that their loss-prevention personnel are not to lay hands on shoplifters. They can attempt to stop them and can write down identifying information such as license plate numbers. They can use video surveillance of the purported crime to further identify the shopper.

And I think I agree with this sort of thing--the level of training of a loss prevention person simply isn't high enough to be condoning their use of force other than in self defense.
 
Why does someone stealing a small item of yours give you the right to slam them to the ground and cause them severe brain injury?

About the only time the law authorizes you to injure someone is in self defense or in the defense of another, and only the amount of force that is necessary to stop the person from assaulting you or someone else.

The police are authorized to use the force needed to effect an arrest. Had a cop done the same thing it wouldn't be an issue. The thing is the cop has a far higher standard of training on the law and how to use force.
 
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