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Transgender Woman Sues After Muslim Refuses Body Waxing Service

Jason Harvestdancer

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Transgender Woman Sues After Muslim Refuses Body Waxing Service

An unnamed male-to-female transgender is suing a spa in Canada after a female Muslim employee refused to wax him, citing religious grounds.

According to the filed complaint, the trans woman tried to get a body waxing at Mad Wax beauty spa in March but was turned away when no one was available to perform the waxing. The employee who typically waxes male customers was out on sick leave, and the other employee working, a Muslim woman, refused, as she will not make physical contact with any male she is not related to.

This bears watching. Canada has pretty deep into the progressive stack and this is an inter-stack conflict.
 
Transgender Woman Sues After Muslim Refuses Body Waxing Service

An unnamed male-to-female transgender is suing a spa in Canada after a female Muslim employee refused to wax him, citing religious grounds.

According to the filed complaint, the trans woman tried to get a body waxing at Mad Wax beauty spa in March but was turned away when no one was available to perform the waxing. The employee who typically waxes male customers was out on sick leave, and the other employee working, a Muslim woman, refused, as she will not make physical contact with any male she is not related to.

This bears watching. Canada has pretty deep into the progressive stack and this is an inter-stack conflict.

Should depend on her contract with the employer. If it specifies female only then i don't see a problem and don't find her religion relevant.
 
Transgender Woman Sues After Muslim Refuses Body Waxing Service

An unnamed male-to-female transgender is suing a spa in Canada after a female Muslim employee refused to wax him, citing religious grounds.

According to the filed complaint, the trans woman tried to get a body waxing at Mad Wax beauty spa in March but was turned away when no one was available to perform the waxing. The employee who typically waxes male customers was out on sick leave, and the other employee working, a Muslim woman, refused, as she will not make physical contact with any male she is not related to.

This bears watching. Canada has pretty deep into the progressive stack and this is an inter-stack conflict.

Should depend on her contract with the employer. If it specifies female only then i don't see a problem and don't find her religion relevant.

Yeah, but which one has more diversity Pokémon points?
 
Transgender Woman Sues After Muslim Refuses Body Waxing Service

An unnamed male-to-female transgender is suing a spa in Canada after a female Muslim employee refused to wax him, citing religious grounds.

According to the filed complaint, the trans woman tried to get a body waxing at Mad Wax beauty spa in March but was turned away when no one was available to perform the waxing. The employee who typically waxes male customers was out on sick leave, and the other employee working, a Muslim woman, refused, as she will not make physical contact with any male she is not related to.

This bears watching. Canada has pretty deep into the progressive stack and this is an inter-stack conflict.

This argument sounds very pro-liberty.
 
Transgender Woman Sues After Muslim Refuses Body Waxing Service

An unnamed male-to-female transgender is suing a spa in Canada after a female Muslim employee refused to wax him, citing religious grounds.

According to the filed complaint, the trans woman tried to get a body waxing at Mad Wax beauty spa in March but was turned away when no one was available to perform the waxing. The employee who typically waxes male customers was out on sick leave, and the other employee working, a Muslim woman, refused, as she will not make physical contact with any male she is not related to.

This bears watching. Canada has pretty deep into the progressive stack and this is an inter-stack conflict.

Yeah, this is a good one. Transgenders are super trendy among the progressives right now, so they have that going for them. My bet is on the Muslims though. They seem to win the Oppression Olympics every time.
 
Transgender Woman Sues After Muslim Refuses Body Waxing Service

An unnamed male-to-female transgender is suing a spa in Canada after a female Muslim employee refused to wax him, citing religious grounds.

According to the filed complaint, the trans woman tried to get a body waxing at Mad Wax beauty spa in March but was turned away when no one was available to perform the waxing. The employee who typically waxes male customers was out on sick leave, and the other employee working, a Muslim woman, refused, as she will not make physical contact with any male she is not related to.

This bears watching. Canada has pretty deep into the progressive stack and this is an inter-stack conflict.

This argument sounds very pro-liberty.

Wanting to watch this case and see how it progresses, you say that sounds like a pro-liberty argument. How odd.

Tell you what. Since you seem to "know" what side I'm taking on this issue, perhaps you should go refute whatever argument you want me to make, claim victory, and leave me out of it.
 
If she won't serve anyone she's not related to how is it she's employed there?

She is willing to serve females but not males. She is treating the transgender female as a male in her refusal criteria.
 
This argument sounds very pro-liberty.

Wanting to watch this case and see how it progresses, you say that sounds like a pro-liberty argument. How odd.

Tell you what. Since you seem to "know" what side I'm taking on this issue, perhaps you should go refute whatever argument you want me to make, claim victory, and leave me out of it.

My post was sarcastic. Your post had no liberty argument at all. It was basically a taunt against progressives, the thing you claim you don't like. Is taunting okay when it's done by a libertarian? Is that what makes it pro-liberty?
 
If she’s going to discriminate against which customers she serves, she should lose her job. If she doesn’t want to touch men who aren’t related to her then that’s her choice, but when this is incompatible with the duties of her job, she needs to decide which one is more important to her.
 
I think the fact that she's Muslim may be a red herring. There are going to be quite a lot of people who don't want to wax someone's genitals on the basis of sex. The company says it allows employees that liberty. It also wants to serve its customers. They clearly made an error here such as when they set up appointments they need to ask if someone is trans. OR if customers can do walk-in waxes, then they need someone on staff at all times for each set of genitals. It's their policy about how they want to maximize opportunity of customers and liberty of employees, so they have to do it properly. I agree with the company's policy to maximize both of these, but they seem to have failed.

What the op doesn't mention is that much of the suit is about the company outing the customer. Publicizing the customer's name, etc. Private people often don't want publicity and the next thing you know rabid right-wingers will be sending threats or maybe dick pics or both. So it seems pretty wrong to me.
 
Transgender Woman Sues After Muslim Refuses Body Waxing Service

An unnamed male-to-female transgender is suing a spa in Canada after a female Muslim employee refused to wax him, citing religious grounds.

According to the filed complaint, the trans woman tried to get a body waxing at Mad Wax beauty spa in March but was turned away when no one was available to perform the waxing. The employee who typically waxes male customers was out on sick leave, and the other employee working, a Muslim woman, refused, as she will not make physical contact with any male she is not related to.

This bears watching. Canada has pretty deep into the progressive stack and this is an inter-stack conflict.

Does there have to be a conflict?
How about: the company has an obligation to provide service, and also not to out the customer. So, they are liable for both things, and must pay a big compensation. The Muslim woman, on the other hand, has the right to refuse service on the basis of her beliefs - and for that matter, the solution (in re: treatment, not outing) could be the same if the customer was any male not related to the employee.

That way, only the company loses, but both the Muslim and the transgender person win.
 
This argument sounds very pro-liberty.

Wanting to watch this case and see how it progresses, you say that sounds like a pro-liberty argument. How odd.

Tell you what. Since you seem to "know" what side I'm taking on this issue, perhaps you should go refute whatever argument you want me to make, claim victory, and leave me out of it.

My post was sarcastic. Your post had no liberty argument at all. It was basically a taunt against progressives, the thing you claim you don't like. Is taunting okay when it's done by a libertarian? Is that what makes it pro-liberty?

I did not know that "the progressive stack" was a group of people. My bad there.

Wait, no. Not "my bad". The progressive stack isn't progressives, it is an idea and belief in a hierarchy of oppression. In fact, even though it is called "the progressive stack", it isn't a belief shared by all progressives, and some non-progressives believe it. Some people refer to it as "the oppression olympics" to demonstrate that those who follow this idea compete to see who is the most oppressed.

According to the classic progressive stack model, the rankings are:
Race
Gender Identity
Sex
Sexuality
Ability
Class

Now, this conflict is transgender versus Muslim. Technically Muslim is a religion, but lots of people seem intent on treating it as a race. On the other hand, while I think it is polite to treat transgenders according to their presentation, those who follow the stack say you must do so and to not do so is a hate crime. So this is a woman who just happens to have male genitalia.

Here we have a Muslim saying "no, you are a man" to a transgender m2f woman. With the premise that Muslim is a race, that puts the top two ranks of the stack in direct opposition to each other. Is the lady refusing service an anti-trans bigot, or is the lady being refused service an anti-Muslim bigot?
 
Jason Harvestancer said:
Here we have a Muslim saying "no, you are a man" to a transgender m2f woman. With the premise that Muslim is a race, that puts the top two ranks of the stack in direct opposition to each other. Is the lady refusing service an anti-trans bigot, or is the lady being refused service an anti-Muslim bigot?
No need for the court to get into such a mess. Instead, the company did wrong for failing to provide service, and further wrong for outing the transgender person. They must pay compensation, and that's that. No one is charged with bigotry (except, perhaps, the company, if they want to go there, but why go there?).
 
Jason Harvestancer said:
Here we have a Muslim saying "no, you are a man" to a transgender m2f woman. With the premise that Muslim is a race, that puts the top two ranks of the stack in direct opposition to each other. Is the lady refusing service an anti-trans bigot, or is the lady being refused service an anti-Muslim bigot?
No need for the court to get into such a mess. Instead, the company did wrong for failing to provide service, and further wrong for outing the transgender person. They must pay compensation, and that's that. No one is charged with bigotry (except, perhaps, the company, if they want to go there, but why go there?).

When she accepted employment, she and her employer both understood that she would only service women. From her point of view, she was not violating her employment contract. From her point of view.
 
If she’s going to discriminate against which customers she serves, she should lose her job. If she doesn’t want to touch men who aren’t related to her then that’s her choice, but when this is incompatible with the duties of her job, she needs to decide which one is more important to her.

This may or may not be true. It may well be the case that she took the job under a job description that includes providing services to females only. The bigger question is whether she is correct in treating this individual as male and not part of the clientele she signed up to provide services for and or whether this individual should be regarded as female and should be provided services.

I don't see her religion as being an issue to use to oppose her choice.

In most circumstances, I don't believe that people should be allowed to discriminate on the basis of the religion, gender, perceived race, language, etc. of the individual receiving services. However, I do think that there should be exceptions for some intimate services, as well as services requiring specific expertise. For instance, only a fool would go to an ob/gyn for a vasectomy even if the ob/gyn routinely provides sterilization services for female patients. Likewise, an individual who walks into a barber shop looking for a hair color, wave and set for their shoulder length hair is foolish to expect such services and the barber would be foolish to attempt them. Someone who routinely does tattoos or piercings should have the right to refuse to perform a service if s/he feels that the service requested would be unsafe or otherwise result in potential harm to the customer seeking services. Likewise, a tattoo artist should be allowed to refuse to tattoo images or words that s/he finds personally offensive or to refuse to tattoo an individual under the age of consent, even if the parent is there and provides his or her approval. Example: A parent brings their 13 year old in and insists the tattoo artist tattoos the words I Am A Thief across the child's forehead. The artist can and should refuse (and call CPS immediately).

Individuals who provide intimate services, such as waxing, but also a number of other services and even treatments should have the right to restrict their services to clients which are acceptable within the service provider's religious or cultural traditions or sexual preferences. A male prostitute who exclusively services male clients should not be expected to service a female client, for example.

In this particular case, the salon should have immediately provided the client with another person to perform the waxing and then do some investigation into the legalities, the physical issues that might arise, the ethics of providing intimate services to trans individuals and provide further training to staff as to the best possible way to meet the needs of all their clients. I do not believe that any client has the right to demand services from whichever service provider they choose. If I walk into my hairdressers and demand that Cindi* do my hair, I should not expect to have my demand met if Cindi declines to do my hair. And frankly, I would be foolish to make such a demand, if I cared about my hair and how it looks.

*Cindi is fictional.
 
If she’s going to discriminate against which customers she serves, she should lose her job. If she doesn’t want to touch men who aren’t related to her then that’s her choice, but when this is incompatible with the duties of her job, she needs to decide which one is more important to her.

Exactly. You shouldn't take a job that conflicts with your religious requirements.

- - - Updated - - -

I think the fact that she's Muslim may be a red herring. There are going to be quite a lot of people who don't want to wax someone's genitals on the basis of sex. The company says it allows employees that liberty. It also wants to serve its customers. They clearly made an error here such as when they set up appointments they need to ask if someone is trans. OR if customers can do walk-in waxes, then they need someone on staff at all times for each set of genitals. It's their policy about how they want to maximize opportunity of customers and liberty of employees, so they have to do it properly. I agree with the company's policy to maximize both of these, but they seem to have failed.

What the op doesn't mention is that much of the suit is about the company outing the customer. Publicizing the customer's name, etc. Private people often don't want publicity and the next thing you know rabid right-wingers will be sending threats or maybe dick pics or both. So it seems pretty wrong to me.

This was a leg waxing. I don't think any genitals were involved.
 
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