Transracial Woman Under Fire in Spokane

[RavenSky]

Her father was a black man from Trinidad.

So much for you being able to eye-ball who is "white" and who is "black"

Racial phenotypes matter, one way or the other. She has a claim that her father is black, but, when there are absolutely no apparent phenotypes to match the claim, then the claim is unlikely. Not impossible, but unlikely. Skin color is genetically inherited, hair color is genetically inherited, eye color is genetically inherited, facial geometry is genetically inherited, but claims of ancestry can change any time on the spot.

So your position is that Gabrielle Reece is a bit fat lying liar who lies about the father she lost in an airplane crash when she was 5-years old? To what purpose?

 

[ApostateAbe]

Racial phenotypes matter, one way or the other. She has a claim that her father is black, but, when there are absolutely no apparent phenotypes to match the claim, then the claim is unlikely. Not impossible, but unlikely. Skin color is genetically inherited, hair color is genetically inherited, eye color is genetically inherited, facial geometry is genetically inherited, but claims of ancestry can change any time on the spot.

So your position is that Gabrielle Reece is a bit fat lying liar who lies about the father she lost in an airplane crash when she was 5-years old? To what purpose?

I don't know about Gabrielle Reece's history, so I have no position beyond finding the claim unlikely. She may have just been told a wrong claim by her mother. That possibility is perhaps a little more likely than having an Afro father who passed on absolutely none of his racially-relevant genes.

 

[dismal]

I may be going out on a limb, but I would make the same claim for Gabrielle Reece, too. Racial phenotypes matter. When you got blonde hair, blue eyes, and your skin is white as white bread, I tend to take less seriously the claim of significant African ancestry, though anything is possible. A DNA test is the final arbiter.

Her father was a black man from Trinidad.

So much for you being able to eye-ball who is "white" and who is "black"

Wait are "DNA test" and "eye-ball" the same thing now?

In any case if she wants to be perceived as Black she should kink up her hair and liberally apply some self tanner. Maybe lodge a few hate crimes complaints.

 

[Nexus]

So your position is that Gabrielle Reece is a bit fat lying liar who lies about the father she lost in an airplane crash when she was 5-years old? To what purpose?

Do you have a picture of her father? I didn't find one with a cursory search. I would need to see how "black" he was before we can say she is "half black".

 

[fromderinside]

So your position is that Gabrielle Reece is a bit fat lying liar who lies about the father she lost in an airplane crash when she was 5-years old? To what purpose?

I don't know about Gabrielle Reece's history, so I have no position beyond finding the claim unlikely. She may have just been told a wrong claim by her mother. That possibility is perhaps a little more likely than having an Afro father who passed on absolutely none of his racially-relevant genes.

Oh the genes were passed all right. They just don't give you the racial code cues for you to make stereotypical claims.

 

[RavenSky]

So your position is that Gabrielle Reece is a bit fat lying liar who lies about the father she lost in an airplane crash when she was 5-years old? To what purpose?

I don't know about Gabrielle Reece's history, so I have no position beyond finding the claim unlikely. She may have just been told a wrong claim by her mother. That possibility is perhaps a little more likely than having an Afro father who passed on absolutely none of his racially-relevant genes.

None of his "racially-relevant genes"? OMG

Is it your position that black people can never have blue eyes?

 

[ApostateAbe]

I don't know about Gabrielle Reece's history, so I have no position beyond finding the claim unlikely. She may have just been told a wrong claim by her mother. That possibility is perhaps a little more likely than having an Afro father who passed on absolutely none of his racially-relevant genes.

Oh the genes were passed all right. They just don't give you the racial code cues for you to make stereotypical claims.

In every aspect of life and rational thought, in science, politics, economy, everyday living, and so on, patterns matter. In ideologies, patterns can be horrible, misleading, don't trust them--no, to me, patterns matter regardless.

 

[RavenSky]

So your position is that Gabrielle Reece is a bit fat lying liar who lies about the father she lost in an airplane crash when she was 5-years old? To what purpose?

Do you have a picture of her father? I didn't find one with a cursory search. I would need to see how "black" he was before we can say she is "half black".

No, I don't find a photo of her father either (and won't be spending any more time searching for one because of Abe's racist position). As for your comment, what does "half-black" mean and who said anything about "half-black" in the first place? This exchange is the result of this gem about "spectrums" from Abe:

If that is what it seems, then you may need to get your thinking on race more accustomed to the spectral model. Nobody would think that the difference between the colors red and blue are perfectly arbitrary with no objective difference. You can still have a paint bucket that is very plainly blue, even if there is a continua between the two colors. This woman very plainly belongs to the white (Europe-descended) biological race.

Apparently, he believes that he has the authority to judge someone as "very plainly belong[ing] to the white (Europe-descended) biological race" purely on the basis of a photograph. I've proved him wrong.

 

[ApostateAbe]

I don't know about Gabrielle Reece's history, so I have no position beyond finding the claim unlikely. She may have just been told a wrong claim by her mother. That possibility is perhaps a little more likely than having an Afro father who passed on absolutely none of his racially-relevant genes.

None of his "racially-relevant genes"? OMG

Is it your position that black people can never have blue eyes?

There are no absolutes here. Blue eyes are much less common among those of black African ancestry, as brown eyes are much more common among native black Africans. Blue eyes are much more common among those of European descent. Every phenotype of Gabrielle Reece matches the phenotypical pattern of European descent, none being African descent, therefore her claim of half African descent is unlikely. Eye color depends on a single gene, I believe, so it wouldn't be a deal-breaker. However, skin color is polygenic, so half-black people like Barack Obama or Tiger Woods have more of a color blend for their skin. Gabrielle Reece does not have a color blend. It is just plain white. That is more of a deal-breaker.

 

[fromderinside]

Gabrielle Reece does not have a color blend. It is just plain white. That is more of a deal-breaker.

Really? A deal breaker for racists? Not relevant. Is she effective? Evidence points to 'yes'. Case closed.

 

[RavenSky]

Even bluer than Gabrielle Reece or Rachel Dolezal

 

[Nexus]

Apparently, he believes that he has the authority to judge someone as "very plainly belong[ing] to the white (Europe-descended) biological race" purely on the basis of a photograph. I've proved him wrong.

Not really.

If we say that red is black-african and blue is caucasian. And if Gabreille's father phenotype was in the green part of the spectrum and her mother was in the blue it make perfect sense Gabrelle would be in the blue. Genetics are about probability and spectrums. I would argue that if her father was a dark skin African the probability is higher her mother lied about paternity rather than she didn't inherit any of those African phenotypes.

 

[RavenSky]

Gabrielle Reece does not have a color blend. It is just plain white. That is more of a deal-breaker.

Really? A deal breaker for racists? Not relevant. Is she effective? Evidence points to 'yes'. Case closed.

Well you have to understand, if they were to admit that someone like Gabrielle Reece could be born of a black man, they would also have to admit that - just possibly - this means the blonde-haired, blue-eyed cutie they fucked in high school might have also been bi-racial.

That would make their head explode and their dick shrivel.

 

[RavenSky]

Apparently, he believes that he has the authority to judge someone as "very plainly belong[ing] to the white (Europe-descended) biological race" purely on the basis of a photograph. I've proved him wrong.

Not really.

If we say that red is black-african and blue is caucasian. And if Gabreille's father phenotype was in the green part of the spectrum and her mother was in the blue it make perfect sense Gabrelle would be in the blue. Genetics are about probability and spectrums. I would argue that if her father was a dark skin African the probability is higher her mother lied about paternity rather than she didn't inherit those African phenotypes.

None of which has diddly squat to do with the fact that he is claiming Gabrielle Reece "very plainly belongs to the white (Europe-descended) biological race" based on his visual inspection of a photograph. And that is just Gabrielle Reece. Rachel Dolezal doesn't even have true-blue eyes or blonde hair.

 

[ApostateAbe]

RavenSky, if we both accept the assumption that the existence of exceptions to a strong correlation makes the correlation equal to perfectly random scatter, then you win. There are no differences between the races.

 

[RavenSky]

RavenSky, if we both accept the assumption that the existence of exceptions to a strong correlation makes the correlation equal to perfectly random scatter, then you win. There are no differences between the races.

I think we should both accept that your claims about "strong correlations" do not give you the right to call either women liars about their heritage.

 

[ApostateAbe]

RavenSky, if we both accept the assumption that the existence of exceptions to a strong correlation makes the correlation equal to perfectly random scatter, then you win. There are no differences between the races.

I think we should both accept that your claims about "strong correlations" do not give you the right to call either women liars about their heritage.

I wouldn't be that rude, but I am not talking to either of these women personally, and I think I have the right to make probability judgments informed by established knowledge of human genetics. I wouldn't call Gabrielle Reece a liar (there is plausibly more than the one explanation of her lying), but Rachel Dolezal is a verified liar about these matters in many respects, and I think we should not hesitate to make such a judgment.

 

[repoman]

Rachel Dolezal is very, very close to be proven a liar about her heritage. 

Would you have as much sympathy for a white man you pulled the same shit?

 

[fromderinside]

I think we should both accept that your claims about "strong correlations" do not give you the right to call either women liars about their heritage.

I wouldn't be that rude, but I am not talking to either of these women personally, and I think I have the right to make probability judgments informed by established knowledge of human genetics. I wouldn't call Gabrielle Reece a liar (there is plausibly more than the one explanation of her lying), but Rachel Dolezal is a verified liar about these matters in many respects, and I think we should not hesitate to make such a judgment.

You have the right and duty to do anything your little brain desires. We have the right and duty to point out that what you choose to use to discriminate doesn't match what we, as members of a single nation, should be doing with and for each other. Your analyses are odious to the idea of equality and harmony in a society. I understand there is a 'recovery' of eugenicist ideas in eastern Europe and Germany now. Maybe .....

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Rachel Dolezal is very, very close to be proven a liar about her heritage.

Would you have as much sympathy for a white man you pulled the same shit?

Really? Speaking of heritage .....she was raised with four black sibs .....

 

[RavenSky]

I think we should both accept that your claims about "strong correlations" do not give you the right to call either women liars about their heritage.

I wouldn't be that rude, but I am not talking to either of these women personally, and I think I have the right to make probability judgments informed by established knowledge of human genetics...

No, you really don't. Not when we are, in fact, discussing two specific individual women. This isn't one of the six-bazillion pseudo-science threads you start. This is a political discussion about specific people.

Gabrielle Reece's biography states, and has always stated, that he father was afro-trinidadian. For you to instead insist that she "very plainly belongs to the white (Europe-descended) biological race" completely negates her father... or you are calling her a liar or "mistaken" or whatever other prettified way you want to choose to call her a liar.

And yes, I absolutely do think you should restrain yourself from telling other people what their *race* is or is not - especially given the nebulous nature of the concept of *race* to begin with.

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Rachel Dolezal is very, very close to be proven a liar about her heritage.

Would you have as much sympathy for a white man you pulled the same shit?

I'm assuming you are directing this at me even though you did not quote me.

Why are you attempting to turn this into a gender-issue when it isn't? Did you by any chance read or comprehend my very first post in this thread?