Trump 2024?

[Jarhyn]

The tragedy is that across the political spectrum, as one looks from left to right the likelihood of a person learning from books diminishes radically. The people who most need to learn, end up learning only whose statue was cancelled by lib’ruls, and never a whisper about why reaches their ears.

The tragedy is that those on the left actually believe that.

After controlling for other demographic factors, people voting D are, on average, better educated and better informed than people voting R. You really didn't know that?

It shouldn't be at all surprising, really. The right embraces ignorance as a matter of course. Bringing it back to Trump and January 6th, the hearings have shown us that people all up the GOP food chain knew there was no "widespread voter fraud," but they stuck with the narrative to the point of political violence. It is difficult to come to any conclusion other than that they consider their "base" to be gullible rubes.

Here in AZ, the outgoing governor is on the outs with Trump because he certified the election results despite Trump calling him literally while he was signing the papers. The GOP front-runner has her photo side by side with Trump on her campaign signs, and insists that the election was "stolen." I'm not certain, but I'd be willing to bet that she's well aware that the election was not stolen at all. Like Trump, I've got just a couple degrees of separation from Kari Lake. I knew her former TV co-host and his wife, and other people who worked at the local Fox affiliate. She is not stupid. She's running a grift.

They all know it wasn't stolen. They all know that it's really them stealing it. I'm not sure how many are aware directly of the knowledge, but every time there's this "tone" in the message when you hear it out loud.

It's this kind of snide indignance when they say it as if it is a matter of indisputable fact, like they read it from somewhere else and the words didn't come from them.

I don't think I've ever really heard the kind of anger and fire that a real belief in such carries.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Yes, because nobody in the United States has ever heard of Benedict Arnold. He never even HAD a statue, so how can we possibly know anything about him?

A minor quibble, but he does have a statue.

You mean this one?

Yes. It's not a major statue, it doesn't say who it is a statue of, but it is a statue to him. Rather funny actually.

 

[ZiprHead]

More Republicans are dumping Trump. But the GOP still imperils democracy.

One explanation of their sudden change of heart is expediency. They — like many GOP donors and an increasing segment of Republicans — have become disgusted with the drama and are nervous that having led an insurrection might be a disadvantage for the presidential nominee in 2024. Now that the facts of that insurrection are so widely known and the mainstream media are amplifying the hearings, even some Republicans (e.g., Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan, Arkansas Gov. Asa Hutchinson) are ruling out support for Trump. It seems they have finally concluded it simply is not possible to defend Trump’s conduct outside the core of MAGA cultists.

The other (not mutually exclusive) explanation is that Republicans have begun to consider less embarrassing alternatives to Trump who could deliver the same outcomes. While some MAGA extremists have prevailed in the primary elections (e.g., Doug Mastriano in Pennsylvania’s governor race), others have belly-flopped (e.g., David Perdue running for Georgia governor).
Certainly, dumping a compulsive liar, authoritarian narcissist and possible defendant in multiple criminal cases could be a plus for Republicans. But it’s not a panacea. The two most dangerous features of Trumpism are very much alive and dominate the GOP.


First, the party has inarguably turned antidemocratic. It wants fewer voters. It wants partisan control of election administration. Many “mainstream” Republicans still leave open the possibility they would have refused to certify Joe Biden’s victory. And state parties continue to drum out of their ranks 2020 truth-tellers such as Arizona House Speaker Rusty Bowers. Remember: Sen. Lisa Murkowski (Alaska) was the only Republican senator willing to debate a national voting rights bill, including a reinstatement of Section 5 of the Voting Rights Act.
Second, the Republican Party has gone all-in when it comes to White Christian nationalism, insisting the state use its power to impose reactionary religious views. Theodore R. Johnson, director of the Brennan Center for Justice’s fellows program, writes:

Think of the people who stormed the Capitol on Jan. 6, who marched through Charlottesville chanting “Jews will not replace us,” who proselytize the “Great Replacement” theory, or who champion a religious ethnonationalism that harks to the covenant myth. They reject multicultural American identity. ...
Or think of the various battles in our long-raging culture war — the “don’t say gay” bills, paranoia about critical race theory, intolerance of free speech rights for people with different beliefs, identity politics, debates about racial and gender equality, etc. Often in these kinds of disputes one side insists that there is only one way to be American. They seem to demand conformity and threaten ostracism.

Indeed, it’s arguably more important for Republican politicians to be warriors for Christian nationalism and generators of racial grievance than Trump apologists. Republican Govs. Ron DeSantis of Florida and Greg Abbott of Texas continue to build their brands around fear-mongering against critical race theory, anti-immigrant animus and attacks on LGBTQ families. Sen. Rick Scott (R-Fla.), chair of the National Republican Senatorial Committee, put out a multi-part plan strewn with talking points on abortion, LGBTQ Americans and race with ample references to Christianity, including a declaration that “the nuclear family is crucial to civilization, it is God’s design for humanity, and it must be protected and celebrated.” More than 70 percent of House Republicans voted against a bill that would protect gay marriage.

Gifted link.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The trouble I have is that Republican voters can't both believe the election was stolen and think Trump isn't a viable candidate. Trump isn't out until he says he is out.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The tragedy is that across the political spectrum, as one looks from left to right the likelihood of a person learning from books diminishes radically. The people who most need to learn, end up learning only whose statue was cancelled by lib’ruls, and never a whisper about why reaches their ears.

The tragedy is that those on the left actually believe that.

The true tragedy are that many statutes raised to 'honor' the Confederacy were erected in response to the Civil Rights movement.

 

[Elixir]

The tragedy is that across the political spectrum, as one looks from left to right the likelihood of a person learning from books diminishes radically. The people who most need to learn, end up learning only whose statue was cancelled by lib’ruls, and never a whisper about why reaches their ears.

The tragedy is that those on the left actually believe that.

True, it is a tragedy for you RW extremists whenever the truth comes to light. The more people know the truth, the more tragic it is for conservotards.

 

[ZiprHead]

In First Speech Back in D.C., Trump Confirms He’ll Rule Like a Dictator in Second Term

Among other things, the former president wants to start executing drug dealers and calling in the National Guard without going through the proper channels first.

www.vanityfair.com

onald Trump, a man who should not be allowed to step foot in the District of Columbia ever again, unfortunately returned on Tuesday, and he came bearing a message: Should he win a second term in 2024, not only will the walls off the White House look like a Jackson Pollock sponsored by Heinz, but he won’t have a single lingering doubt about going full totalitarian dictator.

In a speech delivered at the America First Policy Institute’s two-day summit, the former president kicked things off by explaining that the U.S. should model its strategy for drug dealers off of that of authoritarian countries like China, which execute such people. “If you look at countries throughout the world, the ones that don’t have a drug problem are those that institute a very quick trial—death penalty sentence for drug dealers,” Trump said in his speech. In his first term, Trump frequently spoke of his desire to sentence drug dealers to death. In April 2017, he called the then president of the Philippines, Rodrigo Duterte, to praise the guy for the country’s crackdown on drugs that reportedly resulted in the killing of more than 12,000 people. “I just wanted to congratulate you because I am hearing of the unbelievable job on the drug problem,” Trump reportedly said, referring, glowingly, to Duterte’s extrajudicial murder spree. “Many countries have the problem, we have a problem, but what a great job you are doing and I just wanted to call and tell you that.” A year later, Axios reported that he’d internally raised the prospect of executing drug dealers in the U.S. on numerous occasions.

In addition to a pledge to use the National Guard for dubious ends, despite the fact that he didn’t think they were necessary on January 6:

Much more in the link.

 

[ZiprHead]

Trump threatens CNN with lawsuit over ‘defamatory’ reporting

Former President Trump on Wednesday said he planned to file a lawsuit against CNN, alleging the network has repeatedly defamed him dating back to his 2016 campaign for the presidency. “I have notif…

thehill.com

Former President Trump on Wednesday said he planned to file a lawsuit against CNN, alleging the network has repeatedly defamed him dating back to his 2016 campaign for the presidency.

“I have notified CNN of my intent to file a lawsuit over their repeated defamatory statements against me,” Trump said in a statement. “I will also be commencing actions against other media outlets who have defamed me and defrauded the public regarding the overwhelming evidence of fraud throughout the 2020 Election. I will never stop fighting for the truth and for the future of our Country!”

The 282-page letter from Trump’s attorneys to CNN executives, dated July 21, calls for the network to retract or correct numerous on-air statements and published articles about Trump that the lawyers allege are false and defamatory.

The letter goes on to cite dozens of examples, many of which relate to the network’s coverage of Trump’s repeated claims that the 2020 presidential election was fraudulent. CNN coverage frequently referred to those claims as “lies,” “false narratives” and “baseless theories,” among other terms.

The lawsuit alleges those descriptions are “false and defamatory,” in part because Trump genuinely believes his claims that the election was stolen.

“Without regard for President Trump’s genuine belief in his statements, CNN has published numerous articles characterizing him as a ‘liar’ and the purveyor of the ‘Big Lie,'” the letter to CNN states.

 

[Ford]

Trump threatens CNN with lawsuit over ‘defamatory’ reporting

Former President Trump on Wednesday said he planned to file a lawsuit against CNN, alleging the network has repeatedly defamed him dating back to his 2016 campaign for the presidency. “I have notif…

thehill.com

Former President Trump on Wednesday said he planned to file a lawsuit against CNN, alleging the network has repeatedly defamed him dating back to his 2016 campaign for the presidency.

“I have notified CNN of my intent to file a lawsuit over their repeated defamatory statements against me,” Trump said in a statement. “I will also be commencing actions against other media outlets who have defamed me and defrauded the public regarding the overwhelming evidence of fraud throughout the 2020 Election. I will never stop fighting for the truth and for the future of our Country!”

The 282-page letter from Trump’s attorneys to CNN executives, dated July 21, calls for the network to retract or correct numerous on-air statements and published articles about Trump that the lawyers allege are false and defamatory.

The letter goes on to cite dozens of examples, many of which relate to the network’s coverage of Trump’s repeated claims that the 2020 presidential election was fraudulent. CNN coverage frequently referred to those claims as “lies,” “false narratives” and “baseless theories,” among other terms.

The lawsuit alleges those descriptions are “false and defamatory,” in part because Trump genuinely believes his claims that the election was stolen.

“Without regard for President Trump’s genuine belief in his statements, CNN has published numerous articles characterizing him as a ‘liar’ and the purveyor of the ‘Big Lie,'” the letter to CNN states.

282 pages? Which ones prove the voter fraud? That would be a helluva thing, wouldn't it? More than 18 months after the election was over and done with, Trump's attorneys managed to muster enough proof that he really didn't lose? I can't wait to hear all this "evidence."

Will I have to subscribe to a streaming service so I can watch a movie produced by a felon?

I'm just asking questions...

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

The problem that Trump was a liar and there is lots of evidence that the election was fair and Trump was told this repeatedly. CNN will probably get any Trump suits tossed as frivolous suits with no chances of success. Simply, any such Trump suits would be SLAPP suits. Just another failed lawsuit like the 60+ lawsuits Trump's team has already lost.

 

[ZiprHead]

It's the Costanza defense.

 

[ZiprHead]

Russian media still ♥s Trump: 'He was destroying the leadership of the United States in the world'

To this day, it remains utterly gobsmacking that Donald Trump got even one vote for president of the United States, much less tens of millions. He had no relevant experience in politics or, from the looks of it, business. And as humans go, he was a...

www.dailykos.com

In a new dispatch from the phantasmagorical world of Russian state TV, Russia media monitor Julia Davis observes that Putin’s peeps have rarely been so frothy in their fervor for the former guy.

Gee, it’s almost as if one of our staunchest geopolitical foes wants the biggest fuckup on the planet to lead our country again for some reason.

The Daily Beast:

Andrey Sidorov, deputy dean of world politics at Moscow State University, explained why he considered Trump’s presidency to have been particularly useful to Russia: “From my point of view, Trump was engaged in a very positive endeavor: He was destroying the leadership of the United States in the world. [emphasis added] He questioned the very structure of global relationships built by his predecessors, along with their partners and allies… He wanted to turn those into commercial relationships and Europe didn’t like it at all.”

 

[funinspace]

If white people still controlled this country, they would not be tearing down statues of their founders.

What makes you think there are no white people who despise racism and slavery?
You’re not the only white person around.

If white people didn’t control this country, the US Senate wouldn’t be 89% white.

Why wouldn't it be? The US is 61% white with many small white population states getting more representation in the senate than would otherwise happen without the electorial college.

2020 Census Illuminates Racial and Ethnic Composition of the Country

Today’s release of 2020 Census data provides a new snapshot of the racial and ethnic composition of the country.

www.census.gov

I think you missed the point. Black 1%ers isn't a thing and white people hold the majority of political positions in this country. This goes for all three arms of our (yes I said our) government. Heck even when slavery was abolished it wasn't black people that did it. We just marched our asses off and got violently fucked around every corner. It was white people that agreed to and had the power to make amendments. Still the case today. I admit I don't care about some statue getting torn down (no matter whose statue it is) what I care about is America turning to tyranny out of fear and ignorance as a result of "we the people" putting self-centered simpletons in powerful positions.

I respect all what you have to say here.

But I still don't think 2 wrongs make a right. And no argument this country wasn't perfect and still isn't perfect. But all that needs to end when political activists attempts to indoctrinate all of the youth into hating and tearing down their own legacy.

I'm about as American white as one can get, with over a dozen lines coming off the Plymouth 1620 landing, and I find your fears about them coming for us Whities, to be off the wall and without basis. Statues in general are a form of showing respect and putting a person or idea on a pedestal. The southern civil war "heroes" were traitors to the country. There is no reason to put them up on a pedestal in the first place. They remain in our history books, and that is fine.

Its just not healthy for anyone living today. It really is very much the beginning stages of exactly what happened to jews circa 1939 Germany.

It was closer to circa 1932/3 that it started, and it didn't begin with tearing down Jewish statues. What happened to the Jews in Nazi Germany cannot happen here to us Whities for at least 100-200 years, as even if we aren't the absolute majority, we certainly will be the most dominant racial force for a hell of a long time. This is just garbage you are picking up from fruitcake fearmongering media sites.

 

[Elixir]

This is just garbage you are picking up from fruitcake fearmongering media sites.

And to that extent, this forum is a garbage dump for deluded RW extremists. Much as I do resent that, it is informative regarding the genesis and prevalence of wackadoodle conspiracy crap.
It puts the exclamation point on “a person is smart, people are idiots”. People who are able to tie their own shoes, are nonetheless astonishingly vulnerable to groupthink á la The Big Lie.

 

[ZiprHead]

What a second Trump term would mean for the world

Thomas Wright argues that if Donald Trump defies the odds and wins a second term, the next four years will likely be more disruptive to U.S. foreign policy and world affairs than the past four have been.

www.brookings.edu

In a second term, Trump will insist on loyalty with every appointment, but two types of loyalists exist. The first is senior Republicans who are steadfastly loyal even if they personally disagree with Trump on certain issues, such as Russia or military intervention in the Middle East. These figures are cut from the mold of Mike Pompeo. They include Senators Tom Cotton and Lindsey Graham, former United Nations Ambassador Nikki Haley, and Secretary of the Treasury Steve Mnuchin. Trump may give these people senior positions, but they will not be free to contradict the president or to pursue their own agendas unless they temporarily align with Trump.

The second group is the ultra-loyalists, who owe their positions entirely to Trump’s patronage. These are political operatives such as Richard Grenell, who was Trump’s ambassador to Germany and acted as director of national intelligence for 96 days, and retired military officers and now–cable-news commentators such as Anthony Tata and Douglas McGregor. This group also includes the ultra-ultras—Trump’s family members, who have played a role in his first term, and could be given formal positions of authority in a second. Think of Jared Kushner as national security adviser or secretary of state if Republicans retain a majority in the Senate.

Trump's revenge: How the former president could gut the federal bureaucracy

Trump planned to weed out anyone disloyal to him, including via the newly crafted "Schedule F."

www.axios.com

Close aides believed Trump had crossed a psychological line during his Senate trial. He now wanted to get even; he wanted to fire every single last "snake" inside his government. To activate the plan for revenge, Trump turned to a young take-no-prisoners loyalist with chutzpah: his former aide John McEntee.

By the end of that year, Trump also had a second tool in his armory, a secret weapon with the innocuous title, "Schedule F." The intention of this obscure legal instrument was to empower the president to wipe out employment protections for tens of thousands of civil servants across the federal government.

The mission for McEntee and the power of Schedule F dovetailed in the lead-up to the 2020 election as Trump planned (but lost) a second term and fumed over perceived foes.

If former President Trump runs again in 2024 and wins back the White House, people close to him say, he would turn to both levers again. It is Schedule F, combined with the willpower of top lieutenants like McEntee, that could bring Trump closer to his dream of gutting the federal bureaucracy and installing thousands devoted to him or his "America First" platform.

Trump pushes harsh criminal justice agenda in first DC speech since leaving office

Former President Donald Trump on Tuesday outlined a hardline and harsh criminal justice agenda for the Republican Party, praising China's justice system, pushing for the death penalty for drug dealers and arguing the federal government should circumvent governors to use the National Guard to...

www.cnn.com

On policing, Trump specifically called for a "return to stop-and-frisk policies in cities," argued that cities should not "strip (police) of their liability shield in any way shape or form" and generally said the country should "give our police back their authority, resources power and prestige."

At one point, Trump praised the way Chinese President Xi Jinping handled drug dealers, recalling a moment where the Chinese president told him about "quick trials" for drug criminals in China that he estimated sentenced people in "two hours."
"It sounds horrible, doesn't it? But those are the ones that don't have any problem. It doesn't take 15 years in court. It goes quickly," Trump said, before he endorsed a "very strong death penalty for the people who sell drugs" -- something he has argued for since he was president.
To combat crime, Trump argued that the next president needs to circumvent governors and deploy the National Guard and "go beyond the governor," despite Republicans often arguing on behalf of state's rights.
"When governors refuse to protect their people, we need to bring in what is necessary anyway," Trump said, specifically arguing "the next president needs to send the National Guard to the most dangerous neighborhoods in Chicago until safety can be restored."
Trump also suggested the federal government needs to build large tent cities on the outskirts of some of the nation's largest urban centers and clear out current homeless camps. He said the government should "create thousands and thousands of high quality tents" at the "outer reaches of the cities," and then bring in medical professionals, psychologists and psychiatrists to work with people.

 

[Swammerdami]

But I still don't think 2 wrongs make a right. And no argument this country wasn't perfect and still isn't perfect. But all that needs to end when political activists attempts to indoctrinate all of the youth into hating and tearing down their own legacy.

Its just not healthy for anyone living today. It really is very much the beginning stages of exactly what happened to jews circa 1939 Germany.

I can agree we did (and sometimes do) some really bad shit without agreeing we should throw 1%er whites to the dogs. Even if they might deserve it.

You're not completely wrong. It would be a digression here to defend slave-owners like Washington, Jefferson and even Robert E. Lee but they were products of their time, place and situation. (In some cases it would have been illegal for them to emancipate their slaves.) JFK was a womanizer and Winston Churchill drank to excess; should their statues be torn down also?

But "very much the beginning stages of exactly what happened to jews circa 1939 Germany" ???

Get a grip!

(And by the way, what's with the emphasis on "1%er whites"? Has someone argued that it is the rich who support past slavery, etc.?)

First it is their statues....and then it is their books and what they teach their youth. After more indoctrination they can be treated like animals and then thrown into the camps....

@ RVonse — I don't think of you as a Trumpist or QAnon'er. Should I?

It is influential voices on the right-wing that want to burn schoolbooks and persecute those who don't think like them. You can hear this (at least "between the lines") in the ravings of Trump himself and other top QOPsters. If you hear it on the "left," it's not from Biden or any serious thinker, just from the fool who attached himself to antifa hoping to get laid.

QOPsters insist on imputing their own sins and crimes to their opponents. Trump is a sexual harasser? His ilk pretend the Ds are the harassers. Media like FoxNews brainwash their dupes into fantasy-based group-think? The dupes think it is CNN which enforces group-think. Trump is a grifter? Fox listeners think it's the Ds who grift.

Have you also fallen for their propaganda, RVonse?

 

[Swammerdami]

With Rupert Murdoch and other top QOPsters deserting him, it may seem like T***p is unlikely to win in 2024.

But the punters at the Betfair prediction market haven't reacted yet. Here are some numbers I derived almost four months ago, along with the very latest Betfair line:

Early April
70% GOP-majority Senate in 2023
84% GOP-majority House in 2023
54% GOP White House in 2025
Winner:
22% Trump
15% Biden
14% DeSantis
7% Harris

Late July
57% GOP-majority Senate in 2023
88% GOP-majority House in 2023
58% GOP White House in 2025
Winner:
25% Trump
19% DeSantis
11% Biden
6% Newsom
6% Harris

 

[Elixir]

Have you also fallen for their propaganda, RVonse?

What's the difference between a trumpsucker and a trumpapologist?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

With Rupert Murdoch and other top QOPsters deserting him, it may seem like T***p is unlikely to win in 2024.

Trump was the worst President since the mid 19th century... and nearly won re-election. There are no metrics to use to base his chances of winning. He has broken all of the rules and patterns and defied all convention. That the GOP is threatening him, implies they are scared to death of him.

But the punters at the Betfair prediction market haven't reacted yet. Here are some numbers I derived almost four months ago, along with the very latest Betfair line:

Early April
70% GOP-majority Senate in 2023
84% GOP-majority House in 2023
54% GOP White House in 2025
Winner:
22% Trump
15% Biden
14% DeSantis
7% Harris

Late July
57% GOP-majority Senate in 2023
88% GOP-majority House in 2023
58% GOP White House in 2025
Winner:
25% Trump
19% DeSantis
11% Biden
6% Newsom
6% Harris

I find the GOP Majority in 2023 odd, because the GOP actually have the hardest time, both in taking seats back and holding onto seats. The Dems have a great shot at 53 seats in 2023.

I will note, the above also does not take Dobbs into consideration.

 

[Patooka]

RNC warning to Trump: If you run for president, we stop paying your legal bills, says official

Some GOP leaders are hoping the prospect of losing massive legal payments would dissuade Donald Trump from announcing a presidential run too soon.

abcnews.go.com

Well, fuck. That's quite the conundrum for Trump.