Trump as a master persuader

[DrZoidberg]

I just read Scott Adams, Win Bigly about Donald Trump and what Scott Adams perceives as Trumps ability to persuade masterfully. Because of Trumps ability to appeal to emotion to win. He makes a good case for how Trump could have gamed the system to win. What I don't understand is how the "masterfullness" comes in. Politics isn't just about winning. Winning is worthless unless you you do something good with it. And public opinion matters. Donald Trump has wrecked USA's image abroad. They (we) see him as nothing but a loose cannon who doesn't know what he's doing.

I fail to see the genius of Trump. Anybody else read it who wondered the same thing?

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Well, you have different goals than Trump. His goal is to win the next five minutes. What happens with that win isn't particularly relevant just so long as he wins.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

It sure the heck isn't the genius of Trump. Whomever is controlling the message knows how to sell to both his base and when needed, the swaying voter.

 

[Opoponax]

It fucking baffles me how he's persuasive to anyone. Everything from his manner of speaking, to his body language, to his physical appearance is revolting.

Maybe he has secret magic illusion spell casting powers or something that works on a certain segment of the population. After casting the spell they see him as well spoken, quietly and powerfully confident, and handsome.

To me he looks like a melting wax pumpkin that someone used their grandfather's old clothes to dress up as a used car salesman.

 

[Keith&Co.]

It fucking baffles me how he's persuasive to anyone.

He tells people what they want to hear. So maybe HE isn't persuasive, it's the listener who persuades himself?

 

[Deepak]

Well, you have different goals than Trump. His goal is to win the next five minutes. What happens with that win isn't particularly relevant just so long as he wins.

Achieving his goals would be a different thing from persuasion though. He's good at tapping into what anxiety motivates people, but that's not really persuasion.

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/persuasion

I doubt any ability of his to convince someone who believes X to accept, even partially, position Y.

 

[James Brown]

He has several persuasive tricks.

"I could tell you lots of bad things about X, but I won't."

Here we see that he supposedly has received hidden information about someone or something, but he's too high-minded to reveal it. This is a slick way to introduce doubt into the listener's mind--"Ooh, I wonder what the bad thing about X is??"--but paints himself as taking the moral high ground. He never has to reveal what the bad thing is, nor provide any evidence of the validity of it.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Well, you have different goals than Trump. His goal is to win the next five minutes. What happens with that win isn't particularly relevant just so long as he wins.

All I see is a man who has hurt America. What other goals matter? Adams obviously isn't talking about Trump's personal gains, but USA's. I fail to see how USA has benefited from Trump's reign?

 

[Deepak]

He has several persuasive tricks.

"I could tell you lots of bad things about X, but I won't."

Here we see that he supposedly has received hidden information about someone or something, but he's too high-minded to reveal it. This is a slick way to introduce doubt into the listener's mind--"Ooh, I wonder what the bad thing about X is??"--but paints himself as taking the moral high ground. He never has to reveal what the bad thing is, nor provide any evidence of the validity of it.

But, to use a term of Trump's invention, would this actually convince someone when the pump isn't already primed? Persuasion, at least to me, implies some starting point where persuader and persuadee are ideologically different. Maybe a glib case could be made that this is a form of persuasion, but definitely not master persuasion.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Well, you have different goals than Trump. His goal is to win the next five minutes. What happens with that win isn't particularly relevant just so long as he wins.

All I see is a man who has hurt America. What other goals matter? Adams obviously isn't talking about Trump's personal gains, but USA's. I fail to see how USA has benefited from Trump's reign?

Well, your OP was about whether or not Trump was masterful. Given that his motivations were his personal gains without any consideration about whether or not that would hurt America, the personal gains he's achieved are the standards by which one should judge how masterful he's been in succeeding at them.

 

[DrZoidberg]

He has several persuasive tricks.

"I could tell you lots of bad things about X, but I won't."

Here we see that he supposedly has received hidden information about someone or something, but he's too high-minded to reveal it. This is a slick way to introduce doubt into the listener's mind--"Ooh, I wonder what the bad thing about X is??"--but paints himself as taking the moral high ground. He never has to reveal what the bad thing is, nor provide any evidence of the validity of it.

But, to use a term of Trump's invention, would this actually convince someone when the pump isn't already primed? Persuasion, at least to me, implies some starting point where persuader and persuadee are ideologically different. Maybe a glib case could be made that this is a form of persuasion, but definitely not master persuasion.

Adam, in the book, tries go argue that his arguments didn't matter for his win. He argues that Trump has put himself in a position where he can do whatever he wants. Adams says that his bizarre exaggerated statements are methods of anchoring. It's stuff that people want but aren't prepared to pay for. Since nobody sensible wants him to do exactly what he promised he can't lose.

I don't see it that way. To me, if a politician fails to do what they promise they are just failures and I won't vote for them again.

 

[Elixir]

Well, you have different goals than Trump. His goal is to win the next five minutes. What happens with that win isn't particularly relevant just so long as he wins.

All I see is a man who has hurt America.

Have you not noticed that Trump constantly conflates himself with America? Stupid trumpsuckers are convinced that every penny going into Cheato's pocket benefits them directly. They think they're getting rich - Trump told them so. In fact he's going to make them even richer before the midterms - and if you don't believe that, just ask Trump and he'll tell you about the 10% tax cut that he is going to get passed while Congress is out of session. (Yes, the trumpsuckers are that stupid and ignorant).

 

[GenesisNemesis]

You just need to do two things: make a bunch of promises and instill fear. Also act all angry and stuff. So really, three things.

 

[Elixir]

You just need to do two things: make a bunch of promises and instill fear. Also act all angry and stuff.

True, and that's what mystifies me about the Democrats. They should be hair-on-fire crazy mad about everyone losing healthcare, the rising oligarchy sitting on the throats of workers, the violent right wing mobs (and bombers), the massive and rampant corruption, the loss of US credibility in the international community etc. etc. etc. etc. - and promising to make it all better. THAT is the "positive message" they are all bewildered about not having.

 

[TSwizzle]

I just read Scott Adams, Win Bigly about Donald Trump and what Scott Adams perceives as Trumps ability to persuade masterfully. Because of Trumps ability to appeal to emotion to win. He makes a good case for how Trump could have gamed the system to win. What I don't understand is how the "masterfullness" comes in. Politics isn't just about winning. Winning is worthless unless you you do something good with it. And public opinion matters. Donald Trump has wrecked USA's image abroad. They (we) see him as nothing but a loose cannon who doesn't know what he's doing.

I fail to see the genius of Trump. Anybody else read it who wondered the same thing?

Trump is a genius, a very stable genius. As you say, you just can't see it. I can't see it either but it is there somewhere.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

He has several persuasive tricks.

"I could tell you lots of bad things about X, but I won't."

Here we see that he supposedly has received hidden information about someone or something, but he's too high-minded to reveal it. This is a slick way to introduce doubt into the listener's mind--"Ooh, I wonder what the bad thing about X is??"--but paints himself as taking the moral high ground. He never has to reveal what the bad thing is, nor provide any evidence of the validity of it.

But, to use a term of Trump's invention, would this actually convince someone when the pump isn't already primed?

This to the bank. Trump is riding a wave, he isn't creating it. His base needs persuasion as much as they want to read an encyclopedia. He is preaching to a choir, if you even want to call it preaching.

Maybe a glib case could be made that this is a form of persuasion, but definitely not master persuasion.

Right now Trump's approval rating has risen to one of its highest levels. Someone is being persuaded by others, not Trump, that Trump is right. That'd be the GOP and the propaganda machine.

GOP and Trump approval during Kavanaugh improved because they managed to grandstand while somehow not appearing (to the untrained eye), to be bashing a woman who was claiming to have been sexually assaulted. The GOP's maneuvers were transparent to most but the right-wing. The GOP sold the right-wing that Kavanaugh was an attempt of partisan revenge. Revenge I might add over a stolen SCOTUS seat. They successfully argued to their voters that the entire sexual assault thing was a left-wing conspiracy to get revenge over a stolen SCOTUS seat, all the while saying Dr. Ford's testimony was 'compelling'... and they believed that the GOP had the moral high ground.

This is how Authoritarian governments finally take over. They can make the damnedest arguments and at least convince their side.

 

[RVonse]

Well, you have different goals than Trump. His goal is to win the next five minutes. What happens with that win isn't particularly relevant just so long as he wins.

All I see is a man who has hurt America. What other goals matter? Adams obviously isn't talking about Trump's personal gains, but USA's. I fail to see how USA has benefited from Trump's reign?

Your timeline is much too short.

They used to say that the POTUS actually had little to do with the economy. I used to agree but after Trump I see differently now. What he has done in terms of trade and taxation will have an incredible impact. You don't know this yet because you are probably insulated and maybe not even in the right area of the country. Or probably not in the right industry. But he has made incredible MAGA changes with high value jobs, certainly biggest in my lifetime. Probably something as profound as what occurred during the FDR administration. And Trump is still not done with China yet or the wall. He is working on them as we speak but whether MAGA continues to succeed IMO will continue in large part to the mid-terms.

So you don't know it yet, but Trump was exactly what he said he was going to be. Most do not see that, simply because when it comes to the distracting political tweets and affairs (like crowd size, his polling numbers, etc. he is the biggest liar of them all. But (and this is soo important) when it comes to the major campaign promises, Trump tells the truth like no other. Even the promise having little to do with the average US person (like moving the capital of Israel).....the truth was told (unlike all the previous POTUS).

So your timeline of observation is just too short. The US (and world) economy is like this huge ship that just won't be moved on a dime. And we did not notice the result of globalization resulting from poor decisions of Clinton administration until well into the Bush administration. So we probably will not see the full impact of the Trump MAGA policies until many years in the future. But we will eventually notice MAGA and see more high value jobs and they will be good. Trump is already old so he may not actually be alive to see his own results.

 

[Angry Floof]

He's a master of bullshit of the lowest-common-denominator variety, and he has a sea of Manchurian candidates who were primed and conditioned to follow bullies.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Well, you have different goals than Trump. His goal is to win the next five minutes. What happens with that win isn't particularly relevant just so long as he wins.

All I see is a man who has hurt America. What other goals matter? Adams obviously isn't talking about Trump's personal gains, but USA's. I fail to see how USA has benefited from Trump's reign?

Your timeline is much too short.

They used to say that the POTUS actually had little to do with the economy. I used to agree but after Trump I see differently now. What he has done in terms of trade and taxation will have an incredible impact.

Yup, farmers aren't selling crops (soybeans). Manufacturing is more expensive. Wages aren't appreciably rising above inflation.

You don't know this yet because you are probably insulated and maybe not even in the right area of the country. Or probably not in the right industry. But he has made incredible MAGA changes with high value jobs, certainly biggest in my lifetime.

That wasn't Trump, that was the Obama economy. Before natural gas prices dropped, jobs in metal production were doing well too because of pipelines. You are supporting the guy that let a bunch US companies take a massive windfall and generally put it into stock buybacks, not wages, not jobs.

Probably something as profound as what occurred during the FDR administration. And Trump is still not done with China yet or the wall. He is working on them as we speak but whether MAGA continues to succeed IMO will continue in large part to the mid-terms.

He is working on it, in the sense that China needs the US less than the US needs China and they have so far called Trumps tariff bluffs.

So you don't know it yet, but Trump was exactly what he said he was going to be.

The racial profilin', press hatin', Canada stubbornatin', inflation creatin', Russia felatin' Champion of the World! WOOOOOOOOOO! *struts*

 

[RVonse]

He is working on it, in the sense that China needs the US less than the US needs China and they have so far called Trumps tariff bluffs.

Here it comes Jimmy. Just saw this today: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/companies-apos-ready-move-supply-143908195.html

Spin it anyway you want, but this is clearly the real beginnings of MAGA. The Democrats are now on notice.