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Trump as a master persuader

Your timeline is much too short.

They used to say that the POTUS actually had little to do with the economy. I used to agree but after Trump I see differently now. What he has done in terms of trade and taxation will have an incredible impact.
Yup, farmers aren't selling crops (soybeans). Manufacturing is more expensive. Wages aren't appreciably rising above inflation.
You don't know this yet because you are probably insulated and maybe not even in the right area of the country. Or probably not in the right industry. But he has made incredible MAGA changes with high value jobs, certainly biggest in my lifetime.
That wasn't Trump, that was the Obama economy. Before natural gas prices dropped, jobs in metal production were doing well too because of pipelines. You are supporting the guy that let a bunch US companies take a massive windfall and generally put it into stock buybacks, not wages, not jobs.
Probably something as profound as what occurred during the FDR administration. And Trump is still not done with China yet or the wall. He is working on them as we speak but whether MAGA continues to succeed IMO will continue in large part to the mid-terms.
He is working on it, in the sense that China needs the US less than the US needs China and they have so far called Trumps tariff bluffs.

So you don't know it yet, but Trump was exactly what he said he was going to be.
The racial profilin', press hatin', Canada stubbornatin', inflation creatin', Russia felatin' Champion of the World! WOOOOOOOOOO! *struts*

RVonse (iirc) works in the steel production industry, which employs a total of 142,000 people. (That's 0.04% of all working Americans). Almost all of them are probably doing better right now, due to the cash influx from the tax giveaway and the trade bickering, both of which are hurting the rest of us. But at least it provides some background (if true) for understanding RVonse's completely contorted view of reality.
 
He is working on it, in the sense that China needs the US less than the US needs China and they have so far called Trumps tariff bluffs.
Here it comes Jimmy. Just saw this today: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/companies-apos-ready-move-supply-143908195.html

Spin it anyway you want, but this is clearly the real beginnings of MAGA. The Democrats are now on notice.

Funny stuff RVonse! We too are looking at stateside manufacturing. It's going to add significant cost to our products, and those costs are going to be paid by - GUESS WHO? Meanwhile we will not be able to increase wages for entry level or line workers. The stateside materials sources will get a little more business, but will probably have to cut their margins to keep our product viable. So their workers are SOL too. And guess what the net effect will be on our sales, profits and growth prospects? (HINT: if that's "MAGA" then it stands for "Make Another Giant Atrocity")
 
It's not persuasion; It's manipulation. The difference being that a persuader gets support by explaining to people why they should support him, while a manipulator gets support by influencing the emotions of people such that they support him.

Trump is a master manipulator - but like the Jedi mind trick, it's only effective on the weak minded. People who are driven more by emotion than by reason. Sadly, that's a LOT of people.

He is also good at framing his opponents positions as equally emotional - he throws out half-baked nonsense, and when they respond to it with justified outrage, he can paint them as emotion driven themselves. In short, he is both a master manipulator, and a master baiter.
 
He is working on it, in the sense that China needs the US less than the US needs China and they have so far called Trumps tariff bluffs.
Here it comes Jimmy. Just saw this today: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/companies-apos-ready-move-supply-143908195.html

Spin it anyway you want, but this is clearly the real beginnings of MAGA. The Democrats are now on notice.

Funny stuff RVonse! We too are looking at stateside manufacturing. It's going to add significant cost to our products, and those costs are going to be paid by - GUESS WHO? Meanwhile we will not be able to increase wages for entry level or line workers. The stateside materials sources will get a little more business, but will probably have to cut their margins to keep our product viable. So their workers are SOL too. And guess what the net effect will be on our sales, profits and growth prospects? (HINT: if that's "MAGA" then it stands for "Make Another Giant Atrocity")
. Look past your nose and see what comes eventually:

1. Higher cost to manufacture the product (we agree with this)
2. Some workers layed off, replaced with automation/technology to maintain margins
3. More stateside industry bringing more high value jobs everywhere, rinse and repeat #2
4. Unions stepping up to the plate since China poses no threat
5. Unions negotiate a shorter work week due to tech productivity increases for everyone. Layed off people brought back to work again
6. America prospers. More tax revenues, less hours people working, more infrastructure for US! MAGA on steroids and America kicking ass.
 
He is working on it, in the sense that China needs the US less than the US needs China and they have so far called Trumps tariff bluffs.
Here it comes Jimmy. Just saw this today: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/companies-apos-ready-move-supply-143908195.html

Spin it anyway you want, but this is clearly the real beginnings of MAGA. The Democrats are now on notice.
Spin it? I can quote it.
article said:
"If it was a 25 percent tariff, which is what we’re talking about at year-end, if they can implement it on these items, that would probably drive us to put some people to be looking at quality control in some additional countries on a transient basis as we produce."

article said:
"We are seeking non-Chinese alternate vendors. In addition, we have filed requests with the U.S. government for exclusions from tariffs on a limited number of components, for which no alternative vendor exists."

article said:
"We do have capacity to move outside of China. We’ll be no different, I believe, than anybody else. We’ll look for where the best availability is as for production quality and price around the world,"

article said:
"Many of our customers producing in China concentrate more and more of their production on the local Chinese market" while they set up mirrored production facilities in neighboring countries for exports, Detlef Trefzger, CEO of the Swiss freight company, said during an Oct. 18 earnings call.

article said:
"We just look at the total economics, total landing cost and pick the one that’s got the best cost for the business. Much of our shifts could come -- if it’s China, if it’s shifted, it could go either to India, to Mexico or to the U.S., depending on the nature of the product."
There we go... finally, someone mentioned, in the slightest sense, of shifting production to the US.

As an FYI, there are more countries in the world than the US and China... which means when it says they are going to move production out of China doesn't mean it by default, it goes to the US. As the article you cited indicated, they are looking at shifting in the region, not to the US.
 
Every time I see this thread title, I think of this giant dildo called The Persuader. :rotf:
 
There's one thing that strikes me about Scott Adams. He keeps talking about how Trump is using strategies from business negotiations. Well... that assumes that you won't have to come back and keep dealing with the same people over and over.
 
There's one thing that strikes me about Scott Adams. He keeps talking about how Trump is using strategies from business negotiations. Well... that assumes that you won't have to come back and keep dealing with the same people over and over.

Indeed, he has a track record of stiffing suppliers and subcontractors - especially when they're not in a position to support a protracted legal battle.

The myths of Trump's business acumen always gets me grinding my teeth. The reality is that he's the head of a family owned business and has never had to answer to a board. No reputable businesses will deal with him, to the point where banks don't even want to loan to him. In the real business world you don't go around stabbing people in the back, and hell - no competent businessman would use something like a legal technicality to screw another party out of payment for work that was completed.

For example, agreeing to a $100000 contract and finding out after signing and completing the work that the contract actually had a typo and said $1000000. Here you'd legally be able to collect the higher amount, but no self respecting businessman would actually do it because positive long term relationships, based on a reputation of fair dealings are worth more than that amount, and more importantly one's self respect is too. Similarly having a reputation for screwing over the other party in negotiations due to duplicity or leverage is an albatross for any normal business. There's a reason he was mostly doing brand licensing deals instead of development, until he was able to use public office to drive traffic to his properties more recently that is.

Trump's strategies are those of a used car salesman. I will say that the unpersuasiveness of Adams' argument about Trump's masterful capabilities is the most he's made me laugh in a long time.
 
There's one thing that strikes me about Scott Adams. He keeps talking about how Trump is using strategies from business negotiations. Well... that assumes that you won't have to come back and keep dealing with the same people over and over.

Indeed, he has a track record of stiffing suppliers and subcontractors - especially when they're not in a position to support a protracted legal battle.

The myths of Trump's business acumen always gets me grinding my teeth. The reality is that he's the head of a family owned business and has never had to answer to a board. No reputable businesses will deal with him, to the point where banks don't even want to loan to him. In the real business world you don't go around stabbing people in the back, and hell - no competent businessman would use something like a legal technicality to screw another party out of payment for work that was completed.

For example, agreeing to a $100000 contract and finding out after signing and completing the work that the contract actually had a typo and said $1000000. Here you'd legally be able to collect the higher amount, but no self respecting businessman would actually do it because positive long term relationships, based on a reputation of fair dealings are worth more than that amount, and more importantly one's self respect is too. Similarly having a reputation for screwing over the other party in negotiations due to duplicity or leverage is an albatross for any normal business. There's a reason he was mostly doing brand licensing deals instead of development, until he was able to use public office to drive traffic to his properties more recently that is.

Trump's strategies are those of a used car salesman. I will say that the unpersuasiveness of Adams' argument about Trump's masterful capabilities is the most he's made me laugh in a long time.

Well... Adam's isn't making the case that Trump is a good businessman. He's arguing that Trump is a master persuader. Which supports the idea that he can get away with being a horrendous businessman yet still stay in business.

In the book, Adam's is pretty clear that his own politics are about as far from Trump's as it's possible to get. At no point does he endorse Trump or think that Trump will do great things. Which makes the book quite confusing.
 
I just read Scott Adams, Win Bigly about Donald Trump and what Scott Adams perceives as Trumps ability to persuade masterfully.
But exactly who has he persuaded?

Like, say, transgenders in the military. He did not reveal 'studies that show...' or even offer anecdotes about bad things associated with military transgenders. He just wrote an executive order. "We're not paying for this any more."
Some of his subordinates tried to persuade HIM to have some studies done, first. Maybe back-up his claims that it was exorbitant? Then he saw the news commenting on his change of heart, and doubled-down on the original stance.

NO one has changed their mind or position on the subject. Just some people HAVE to follow FFvC's orders.
 
Well... Adam's isn't making the case that Trump is a good businessman. He's arguing that Trump is a master persuader. Which supports the idea that he can get away with being a horrendous businessman yet still stay in business.

In the book, Adam's is pretty clear that his own politics are about as far from Trump's as it's possible to get. At no point does he endorse Trump or think that Trump will do great things. Which makes the book quite confusing.

But it suffers the same problem as before - it doesn't really fit most people's definition of persuasion. Adams could make the case that Trump is a master persuader because he's using the strategies of an arsonist to convince you to take an action, say leaving the building you're occupying. Would any normal person say they were persuaded to take that action?
 
I just read Scott Adams, Win Bigly about Donald Trump and what Scott Adams perceives as Trumps ability to persuade masterfully.
But exactly who has he persuaded?

Like, say, transgenders in the military. He did not reveal 'studies that show...' or even offer anecdotes about bad things associated with military transgenders. He just wrote an executive order. "We're not paying for this any more."
Some of his subordinates tried to persuade HIM to have some studies done, first. Maybe back-up his claims that it was exorbitant? Then he saw the news commenting on his change of heart, and doubled-down on the original stance.

NO one has changed their mind or position on the subject. Just some people HAVE to follow FFvC's orders.

Yes... excellent points. Sums up what I feel as well. I was wondering if I was going crazy when reading it.

Just the fact that Trump wasn't saying "Bigly". He was really saying "Big league". Ok, but he failed to persuade us that that was what he was really saying. So it's a moot point.
 
It fucking baffles me how he's persuasive to anyone. Everything from his manner of speaking, to his body language, to his physical appearance is revolting. .

When you hear people who met him speak about him or ex-employees they regurlarly come up with superlatives, even when they have no fear of repercussions if they really speak out their minds.

I think Trump's 'presence' also has to do a lot with him being famous or very rich. If you're rich, people rever you, especially in the states (in the Netherlands, if you're rich you almost have to defend yourself and proof that you stayed 'normal'). So if you're already biased on Trump and you speak to him in awe of his richness and fame, you automatically think it's his big presence and the awesome things he said.

From an objective distance however, it's just uninformed meaningless drivel. He knows nothing about anything and is just shrewd in the tricks he honed since young age. And one of those tricks is repetition. Repeat stuff until it sticks. If you say democrats are for open borders long enough (basically every single a day in a tweet), it sticks. No matter how untrue it is, no matter how you think it's bullshit... It. Sticks.
 
Yep. Like "Lock her up, etc, etc." I'm still in the position of Opoponax in post #4 -- I find everything about Trump's orations disgusting, from his physicality (the tic he has of saying something extra unctuous or hateful and then turning his head to the left, so we get his profile, with obscenely pursed lips), (the red face, the engorged look as he spits out his noodle-headed conspiracies, code words, taunts)...if I met someone like this on, say, a used car lot, and he insisted on shaking hands, I would hold off eating a sandwich until I could get to soap and water.
 
Yep. Like "Lock her up, etc, etc." I'm still in the position of Opoponax in post #4 -- I find everything about Trump's orations disgusting, from his physicality (the tic he has of saying something extra unctuous or hateful and then turning his head to the left, so we get his profile, with obscenely pursed lips), (the red face, the engorged look as he spits out his noodle-headed conspiracies, code words, taunts)...if I met someone like this on, say, a used car lot, and he insisted on shaking hands, I would hold off eating a sandwich until I could get to soap and water.

Yup, it mystifies me that ANYONE can fail to see what a dishonest conman Agent Orange really is. He is the embodiment of deplorable, peddling toxic lies for his own personal advantage.
Now his terrorist minions are sending bombs to people... and I wonder how much effort he will put toward making sure that individual/individuals don't face justice.
 
and I wonder how much effort he will put toward making sure that individual/individuals don't face justice.
Well, I was just thinking about the court's decision that 'In God We Trust' wasn't religious, but 'ceremonial deism.'

Maybe this case will result in something like 'Ceremonial Terrorism.'
 
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